The Rise of Skywalker JJ Abrams is Writing and Directing Episode IX

[DarthSkywalker]

I would've been fine with that. I was never really comfortable with how Chewie just rushes past her after what happens. Chewie is family to her. But it didn't make me go "ANGRY FANBOY REEEE" either.

Chewie is seemingly concerned about Finn, but then sort of slowly walks by. I get the complaints, and I have them to. It is a very small moment, that I wish hadn't of happened. But yeah, not a big problem.

This is where I think Rian Johnson lost sight a little bit. Case in point, he cut out that brief, but effective moment, of Luke showing that quiet pain and grief after he meets Rey. Like I think that's great just tiny little quiet stuff there...but he cut it out. Just don't get it. Like if I'm giving notes on an edit, something like that definitely stays in, or some sort of quiet scene with Luke and Chewie. Those two had to have gone through a lot together at that point. Chewie has to be more than just a prop background character.



Comparably here's a deleted scene from Force Awakens. Let's be honest, it was junk and should've stayed cut.



Let's be honest, this scene is just a little too far on the goofy side. It's just a bit too much IMO and adds nothing to the film. Also, it's that type of weird humor that drove people nuts in Last Jedi.

I just think the people on Force Awakens knew where to cut the fat so to speak.

I think this is one situation that completely comes down to Canto Bight and basically adding in more time for Finn and Poe, just to have more of them. It is clear that Rey and Luke got a lot of cuts. This movie could of easily had 10 more minutes. Another big one that kills me is the third lesson. While not perfect, it makes Rey's running off to a place she was told not to go and Luke reconnecting to the Force in that moment make a lot more sense. In the movie it all just feels kind of random. Rey is upset, crying and then Kylo confronts her in a vulnerable moment.

As to the deleted scene for TFA, I really like it. Its goofy and funny, but also a perfect cut from the film. Because how it is edited in the film works perfectly.

 

[TheVileOne]

The one deleted scene I like in Force Awakens is Kylo Ren going on the Falcon, but even that scene is redundant and I think a decent cut.

Cutting out the third lesson is bad writing and storytelling. Same with Return of the King cutting out Gandalf confronting Witch King and the fate of Gothmog. How can you release a film in theaters and not show what happens to your main antagonist for the most the ****ing three and a half hour runtime? IMHO that's criminal. More people should've come down on Peter Jackson for that. The Witch King thing is bad because the movie sets it up. "What of the White Wizard?" "I will break him." You can't foreshadow something like that and just ignore it from a narrative standpoint.

They couldn't have moved a little more around just to make sure we see Gothmog bite it instead of seeing him just disappear offscreen at one point?

The third lesson is bad because Luke says he's teaching Rey three lessons. OK, so what's the third? We leave the movie never finding out what it was. That's bad narrative economy.

It's not like the Riddle of Steel in Conan the Barbarian.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The one deleted scene I like in Force Awakens is Kylo Ren going on the Falcon, but even that scene is redundant and I think a decent cut.

Cutting out the third lesson is bad writing and storytelling. Same with Return of the King cutting out Gandalf confronting Witch King and the fate of Gothmog. How can you release a film in theaters and not show what happens to your main antagonist for the most the ****ing three and a half hour runtime? IMHO that's criminal. More people should've come down on Peter Jackson for that. The Witch King thing is bad because the movie sets it up. "What of the White Wizard?" "I will break him." You can't foreshadow something like that and just ignore it from a narrative standpoint.

They couldn't have moved a little more around just to make sure we see Gothmog bite it instead of seeing him just disappear offscreen at one point?

The third lesson is bad because Luke says he's teaching Rey three lessons. OK, so what's the third? We leave the movie never finding out what it was. That's bad narrative economy.

It's not like the Riddle of Steel in Conan the Barbarian.

I would have kept in the Falcon moment. I wouldn't have done it quite like they did in the film, but yeah. I like the idea of the obvious conflict it stirs in Kylo.

I always hated that. Like I understand he was saving stuff for the extended edition on purpose at that point, but that is something that had to be in the film. There is so much build up around it, and then nothing.

I think the one nice thing about the third lesson not being in the film, is I am almost positive JJ will do something with that in IX.

 

[Brother Jack]

The third lesson is bad because Luke says he's teaching Rey three lessons. OK, so what's the third? We leave the movie never finding out what it was. That's bad narrative economy.

Luke didn't complete his training in Empire either. It's not really a big deal that it isn't in the film; it's not as though the entirety of the story was framed by there being three lessons.

 

[Aximili86]

Bingo. ^ Gotta love the TLJ haters completely glossing over Luke's advancement between ESB & ROTJ being a bit of a problem. You wouldn't glean from what's actually on-film that he's been back to Yoda between the two, in fact it's pretty much implied he hasn't. There's wiggle-room with ghost-Obi, but we don't see it, so...

 

[Gothamsknight]

Bingo. ^ Gotta love the TLJ haters completely glossing over Luke's advancement between ESB & ROTJ being a bit of a problem. You wouldn't glean from what's actually on-film that he's been back to Yoda between the two, in fact it's pretty much implied he hasn't. There's wiggle-room with ghost-Obi, but we don't see it, so...

and don't forget the fact that Luke blew up a death star in a new hope like it was nothing. The complaints about Rey not getting enough training reeks of hypocrisy.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I think this is one situation that completely comes down to Canto Bight and basically adding in more time for Finn and Poe, just to have more of them. It is clear that Rey and Luke got a lot of cuts. This movie could of easily had 10 more minutes. Another big one that kills me is the third lesson. While not perfect, it makes Rey's running off to a place she was told not to go and Luke reconnecting to the Force in that moment make a lot more sense. In the movie it all just feels kind of random. Rey is upset, crying and then Kylo confronts her in a vulnerable moment.

As to the deleted scene for TFA, I really like it. Its goofy and funny, but also a perfect cut from the film. Because how it is edited in the film works perfectly.

Agreed! I honestly wanted to see more of the rey and luke stuff, and every time it cut i got frustrated a little bit. I would have severely trimmed down all of the canto bight stuff, or cut it all together, with the primary focus being on rey & Luke.

 

[TheVileOne]

Luke didn't complete his training in Empire either. It's not really a big deal that it isn't in the film; it's not as though the entirety of the story was framed by there being three lessons.

It's a complete and utter false equivalence. Luke wasn't even training her. It is a big deal because they filmed it and completely removed it from the film entirely. Simple solution, don't have Luke say three lessons.

Return of the King did this too. They set up Witch King's confrontation with Gandalf. It's foreshadowed earlier in the movie. It was filmed. Footage was in marketing materials, and it's nowhere to be found in final cut. That's bad writing, editing, and storytelling. Don't set up or hint at things that have no payoff.

 

[Marvolo]

The one deleted scene I like in Force Awakens is Kylo Ren going on the Falcon, but even that scene is redundant and I think a decent cut.

Cutting out the third lesson is bad writing and storytelling. Same with Return of the King cutting out Gandalf confronting Witch King and the fate of Gothmog. How can you release a film in theaters and not show what happens to your main antagonist for the most the ****ing three and a half hour runtime? IMHO that's criminal. More people should've come down on Peter Jackson for that. The Witch King thing is bad because the movie sets it up. "What of the White Wizard?" "I will break him." You can't foreshadow something like that and just ignore it from a narrative standpoint.

They couldn't have moved a little more around just to make sure we see Gothmog bite it instead of seeing him just disappear offscreen at one point?

The third lesson is bad because Luke says he's teaching Rey three lessons. OK, so what's the third? We leave the movie never finding out what it was. That's bad narrative economy.

It's not like the Riddle of Steel in Conan the Barbarian.

Gothmog got a death scene in the theatrical cut of ROTK. It shows him scared as the cavalry charges toward him and the cavalry hits the orcs and proceeds to go half way through their lines and then proceed to slaughter them. We didn't need to actually see a horse trampling him specifically or a main character killing him. Sure it would have been preferable, but what's in the theatrical cut works fine as an end for the character.

And I cant really blame Jackson for cutting the gothmog death scene and the Witch King Gandalf scene because what he shot was not good at all and didnt make since with the other stuff he shot.

In the Gothmog death scene what Eowyn is doing doesnt make any sense . She kills the witch king, and sits down against Theoden's horse. Pippin is less than 10 feet in front of her. It cuts to aragorn and gimli and legolas killing orcs. Then it cuts back to eowyn and she looks like she's went 10 rounds with a whomping stick and she is calling out for Merry like she doesnt know where he is even tho in her previous scene Merry was right in front of her. Gothmog spots her and before he can kill her Gimli and Aragorn dispatch him. Then in the very next Eowyn scene she's crawling around Theoden's horse and looks like she did in the Witch King death scene. It's pretty obvious something was reshot or changed at some point and the gothmog death scene no longer fit with what they shot for the witch king death and theoden death scene so they cut it.

The witch king Gandalf scene has a similar problem. The witchking comes out of nowhere, Gandalf acts like a weak ***** and the witch king in his moment of triumph flies off when he hears the Rohirrim arrive. Then he disappears until the rohirrim have charged through the orc army and run it off. It should have taken him less than a minute to get from Gandalf to the rohirrim lines, but he is nowhere to be seen. If the rohirrim were such a threat that he abandons killing Gandalf to stop them it doesnt make much sense for him to not fly straight to the rohirrim after leaving Gandalf. But I guess he had to take a bathroom break or get a snack before he could deal with the rohirrim.

As for the three lessons, we didn't get to see the third lesson because Luke walks in on her with Kylo. That put the kibosh on any further lessons from Luke. That's not bad writing it's just plot progression. There is a clear and logical cause and effect for Luke never giving her the third lesson.

 

[TheVileOne]

Gothmog got a death scene in the theatrical cut of ROTK. It shows him scared as the cavalry charges toward him and the cavalry hits the orcs and proceeds to go half way through their lines and then proceed to slaughter them. We didn't need to actually see a horse trampling him specifically or a main character killing him. Sure it would have been preferable, but what's in the theatrical cut works fine as an end for the character.

Yeah that's not a death scene sorry. He was never trampled. That never happened. 15 years ago watching it in the theater I sat there watching wondering, what happened to the Orc leader? Where did he go?

And I cant really blame Jackson for cutting the gothmog death scene and the Witch King Gandalf scene because what he shot was not good at all and didnt make since with the other stuff he shot.

I do blame him.

In the Gothmog death scene what Eowyn is doing doesnt make any sense . She kills the witch king, and sits down against Theoden's horse. Pippin is less than 10 feet in front of her. It cuts to aragorn and gimli and legolas killing orcs. Then it cuts back to eowyn and she looks like she's went 10 rounds with a whomping stick and she is calling out for Merry like she doesnt know where he is even tho in her previous scene Merry was right in front of her. Gothmog spots her and before he can kill her Gimli and Aragorn dispatch him. Then in the very next Eowyn scene she's crawling around Theoden's horse and looks like she did in the Witch King death scene. It's pretty obvious something was reshot or changed at some point and the gothmog death scene no longer fit with what they shot for the witch king death and theoden death scene so they cut it.

Once again, that's bad editing. They should've foreseen all that and fixed that better.

The witch king Gandalf scene has a similar problem. The witchking comes out of nowhere, Gandalf acts like a weak ***** and the witch king in his moment of triumph flies off when he hears the Rohirrim arrive. Then he disappears until the rohirrim have charged through the orc army and run it off. It should have taken him less than a minute to get from Gandalf to the rohirrim lines, but he is nowhere to be seen. If the rohirrim were such a threat that he abandons killing Gandalf to stop them it doesnt make much sense for him to not fly straight to the rohirrim after leaving Gandalf. But I guess he had to take a bathroom break or get a snack before he could deal with the rohirrim.

then once again they should've written and blocked that out better. It's less problematic than having a setup up with no payoff.

As for the three lessons, we didn't get to see the third lesson because Luke walks in on her with Kylo. That put the kibosh on any further lessons from Luke. That's not bad writing it's just plot progression. There is a clear and logical cause and effect for Luke never giving her the third lesson.

No. We don't get a third lesson because it was removed from the film.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Bingo. ^ Gotta love the TLJ haters completely glossing over Luke's advancement between ESB & ROTJ being a bit of a problem. You wouldn't glean from what's actually on-film that he's been back to Yoda between the two, in fact it's pretty much implied he hasn't. There's wiggle-room with ghost-Obi, but we don't see it, so...

The issue with Luke and Rey is the lack of a relationship being established between the two, which is why they should of had more moments, like the third lesson that was cut from the film. A moment where Rey clearly touches Luke and an emotional level, and he pushes her away, driving her more towards Kylo. It is a big issue with the third act, where Rey basically goes missing and has no real emotional attachment or reaction to the finale of the film, in which she is the main character.

 

[TheVileOne]

Rey and her development has never really been a huge issue for me. I kind of feel like she knows how to take care of herself because she had no other choice. She grew up in the anus of the galaxy and had to do what she could to survive. Even if it was just for the false belief her family might one day return.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Gothmog got a death scene in the theatrical cut of ROTK. It shows him scared as the cavalry charges toward him and the cavalry hits the orcs and proceeds to go half way through their lines and then proceed to slaughter them. We didn't need to actually see a horse trampling him specifically or a main character killing him. Sure it would have been preferable, but what's in the theatrical cut works fine as an end for the character.

And I cant really blame Jackson for cutting the gothmog death scene and the Witch King Gandalf scene because what he shot was not good at all and didnt make since with the other stuff he shot.

In the Gothmog death scene what Eowyn is doing doesnt make any sense . She kills the witch king, and sits down against Theoden's horse. Pippin is less than 10 feet in front of her. It cuts to aragorn and gimli and legolas killing orcs. Then it cuts back to eowyn and she looks like she's went 10 rounds with a whomping stick and she is calling out for Merry like she doesnt know where he is even tho in her previous scene Merry was right in front of her. Gothmog spots her and before he can kill her Gimli and Aragorn dispatch him. Then in the very next Eowyn scene she's crawling around Theoden's horse and looks like she did in the Witch King death scene. It's pretty obvious something was reshot or changed at some point and the gothmog death scene no longer fit with what they shot for the witch king death and theoden death scene so they cut it.

The witch king Gandalf scene has a similar problem. The witchking comes out of nowhere, Gandalf acts like a weak ***** and the witch king in his moment of triumph flies off when he hears the Rohirrim arrive. Then he disappears until the rohirrim have charged through the orc army and run it off. It should have taken him less than a minute to get from Gandalf to the rohirrim lines, but he is nowhere to be seen. If the rohirrim were such a threat that he abandons killing Gandalf to stop them it doesnt make much sense for him to not fly straight to the rohirrim after leaving Gandalf. But I guess he had to take a bathroom break or get a snack before he could deal with the rohirrim.

As for the three lessons, we didn't get to see the third lesson because Luke walks in on her with Kylo. That put the kibosh on any further lessons from Luke. That's not bad writing it's just plot progression. There is a clear and logical cause and effect for Luke never giving her the third lesson.

Then he should have shot a better scene. But all the build up with no payoff was always weak as hell.

The problem with the third lesson sequence (and I rather the party scene not have been a third lesson, but something Rey stumbled upon, had a heart to heart with Luke, who then basically pushed her away) is how the movie is structured without it. It is a clearly cut scene, as after Rey tells Luke he can believe in her, we next find her emotionally comprised and talking to Kylo. Then she goes to the cave, with very little reason to believe Kylo or drive to find her parents in that moment.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Rey and her development has never really been a huge issue for me. I kind of feel like she knows how to take care of herself because she had no other choice. She grew up in the anus of the galaxy and had to do what she could to survive. Even if it was just for the false belief her family might one day return.

Rey's abilities are great and have always fit her Force sensitivity and how she grew up well imo. My issue would be her character development in TLJ, or should I say the lack there of. Also the random change from her looking for her parents and suddenly not knowing who her parents are. Which Rian could of easily addressed in the film, before making it an issue.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think Abrams mystery box is partly to blame for this. The easy fix here is just establish right off the bat that Rey's parents were junkers who abandoned her and Unkar Platt took her in when she had no one else to turn to. Maybe the audience doesn't buy that backstory, but at least it's a backstory. The first movie is just so vague of course people are going to want to believe she's Obi-Wan's daughter or some such nonsense. The original trilogy taught fans to try and stay a step ahead of everyone. For good or ill.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think Abrams mystery box is partly to blame for this. The easy fix here is just establish right off the bat that Rey's parents were junkers who abandoned her and Unkar Platt took her in when she had no one else to turn to. Maybe the audience doesn't buy that backstory, but at least it's a backstory. The first movie is just so vague of course people are going to want to believe she's Obi-Wan's daughter or some such nonsense. The original trilogy taught fans to try and stay a step ahead of everyone. For good or ill.

This is not JJ's fault. JJ was clearly setting her up to be a Skywalker, whether she was Kylo's long lost sister, or Luke's daughter. Rian didn't want to do that. Though I also think this is why some of his more overt Rey and Kylo stuff got scrapped. So this door was still open.

 

[TheVileOne]

This is not JJ's fault. JJ was clearly setting her up to be a Skywalker, whether she was Kylo's long lost sister, or Luke's daughter. Rian didn't want to do that. Though I also think this is why some of his more overt Rey and Kylo stuff got scrapped. So this door was still open.

I won't believe this until I hear Abrams confirm it or say it himself.

 

[Marvolo]

I won't believe this until I hear Abrams confirm it or say it himself.

Same. I dont think he was setting her up as a junker's daughter, but I also dont think he had any concrete intentions. He wasn't planning to direct Episode 8, and TFA says nothing at all about her parents other than that Rey believes they will return for her. Everything else is fan theories. I think JJ's only concrete intention was to leave her backstory vague so that Episode 8's director could go any direction they wanted to.

Now that he is coming back for 9 he could have decided to make her a Skywalker. I hope he wont, but I also hope he has a bit more to say about her backstory. Her parents being junkers that died on Jakku doesnt seem to line up with the vision of little Rey watching a departing ship and screaming for it to come back. I'd like for JJ to clarify that. Maybe Kylo did see that her parents traded her or left her and he just jumped to his own conclusions believing the worst of her parents because he was projecting his own feelings about his own parents. Whoever they were they may have left her for good intentioned reasons, and then left the planet. I think that would allow him to keep her a "nobody", and it would also be a balm to the fans that hate the idea of her parents being alcoholics that traded her for booze.

 

[emc5466]

Kyle Newman has said many times that TFA was a highly troubled shoot with massive reshoots, he’s also hinted that an early cut of the movie was building towards a reveal between Rey and Luke but all of that changed via reshoots.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Same. I dont think he was setting her up as a junker's daughter, but I also dont think he had any concrete intentions. He wasn't planning to direct Episode 8, and TFA says nothing at all about her parents other than that Rey believes they will return for her. Everything else is fan theories. I think JJ's only concrete intention was to leave her backstory vague so that Episode 8's director could go any direction they wanted to.

Now that he is coming back for 9 he could have decided to make her a Skywalker. I hope he wont, but I also hope he has a bit more to say about her backstory. Her parents being junkers that died on Jakku doesnt seem to line up with the vision of little Rey watching a departing ship and screaming for it to come back. I'd like for JJ to clarify that. Maybe Kylo did see that her parents traded her or left her and he just jumped to his own conclusions believing the worst of her parents because he was projecting his own feelings about his own parents. Whoever they were they may have left her for good intentioned reasons, and then left the planet. I think that would allow him to keep her a "nobody", and it would also be a balm to the fans that hate the idea of her parents being alcoholics that traded her for booze.

JJ wrote stories for all 3 episodes. Rian scrapped them.

The shooting plan for the movie had a scene with a young Rey at Luke's Jedi temple that they never filmed (it would have been part of the vision). But it was in the original intended shooting plan.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Kyle Newman has said many times that TFA was a highly troubled shoot with massive reshoots, he’s also hinted that an early cut of the movie was building towards a reveal between Rey and Luke but all of that changed via reshoots.

This would be a lie. The only major problem that had was the injury to Ford, where they also reworked the Rey/Finn relationship a bit.

 

[titansupes]

I'll just put it here, because it is JJ related after all-- This is the Luke that was cut from the Force Vision in TFA (Rey was going to see him and Vader fighting from a distance in the Bespin corridor):

 

[Marvolo]

Did yall see this tweet:



Sounds like Rian just stuck with JJ's original idea, or if anything backed off of JJ's idea, because a Col. Kurtz Luke would have been a darker more unhinged type Luke. It would explain where all those supposed leaks and rumors came from, during TFA's production, about Luke being dark side or a more sinister character. I'd love to see all the early story notes. If Disney ever gets off its ass and releases the making-of book that theyve got locked away in their vault.

Luke's eyes in that concept art are unnerving for some reason.

 

[Gothamsknight]

theres a sort of a blurry leaked pic of Daisy on the set in Jordon i believe, but not in costume. It's floating around on reedit, but im not sure what the hypes policy is on leaks these days haha.

 

[emc5466]

Did yall see this tweet:



Sounds like Rian just stuck with JJ's original idea, or if anything backed off of JJ's idea, because a Col. Kurtz Luke would have been a darker more unhinged type Luke. It would explain where all those supposed leaks and rumors came from, during TFA's production, about Luke being dark side or a more sinister character. I'd love to see all the early story notes. If Disney ever gets off its ass and releases the making-of book that theyve got locked away in their vault.

Luke's eyes in that concept art are unnerving for some reason.

George Lucas came up with the concept of a Luke who went into hiding following a betrayal from one of his students.