JLA vs avengers

[Marvin]

i mean (assuming as was said and they bring everything within reason to the battle)

whats considered a victory?

when she slices him up into a (lot) few thousand pieces @ near superman speeds?

or when she uses her near superman speed and strength to take him into space and tap him towards the sun(no u can't swim in space)

ultimately, she has speed he doesn't, he can't see her and she's just about as strong as superman with a sword that can cut anything, and a rope that can't be broken, and she may very well be the top female fighter in the dcu

plus her enchanted bracletts can be used to blunt any blunt force attack

what's a victory?

 

[torkibe]

i mean (assuming as was said and they bring everything within reason to the battle)

whats considered a victory?

when she slices him up into a (lot) few thousand pieces @ near superman speeds?

or when she uses her near superman speed and strength to take him into space and tap him towards the sun(no u can't swim in space)

ultimately, she has speed he doesn't, he can't see her and she's just about as strong as superman with a sword that can cut anything, and a rope that can't be broken, and she may very well be the top female fighter in the dcu

plus her enchanted bracletts can be used to blunt any blunt force attack

what's a victory?

No Marvin, she doesn't stand a chance! Cuz, the Hulk is really strong... and stuff...

 

[ibsisomis]

like I said ^^this why I'm through with this disscussion. I'll talk about JLA vs. Avengers. but not this hulk stuff.

 

[Kitsune]

As a Marvel fan, I hate to say that all other things being equal, JLA would win. That being said, it wouldn't be a rout and I certainly wouldn't say that the Avengers couldn't win. One of the hallmarks of the Avengers is defeating far superior foes using ingenuity and teamwork. Avengers always struck me as being like a college Basket Ball team, where JLA is an NBA all Star team. JLA has more heavy hitters, while Avengers has more team players.

 

[BrianWilly]

Yeah, it'd probably be just easier for me to stop arguing with people whose response to most things is "I don't believe it could happen, so it can't," but whatever.

Superman and the Hulk have the same exact amount of resistance to magic, which is absolutely none. Same as anyone else who doesn't specifically have stated resistance to magic. It's not just Superman who can't break the magic lasso. No one has been able to break the magic lasso. That's the whole point. Even if magic does affect Superman more than it affects other people -- which it doesn't -- how ludicrous would it be to create an unbreakable magic lasso that is only unbreakable against people who are weak against magic??

Actually, I take that back; to my knowledge, the only person who has been shown to do it in more than sixty years of continuity was Bizarro in Trinity. However, the continuity of Trinity is seriously questionable, so whether or not you take it as canon is up for debate.

Nevertheless, her tiara has decapitated a god before. A full-blown, honest-to-mythology god. And if you can find someone more resistant to her magic than one of the Greek gods who actually created that magic, I'd like to see it.

Yeah sorry but Hulk would destory Wonder Woman. There's NOTHING she could do to him that he hasn't gotten out of before. The guys punched through energy fields that nothing else has gotten through, he's lifted up mountain ranges, and he's come back to life from a badly decomposed corpse.

Yeah um, every single thing you just said could just as easily be applied to Wonder Woman. There's nothing he can do to her that she hasn't walked away from before. The woman has weapons that can cut through anything in existence, and she's lifted up the moon. So what if he can come back from the nearly dead? She's done it too. Being able to recuperate from your defeat doesn't mean that you can't be defeated.

I can buy the Superman beating Hulk arguments, but this is just silly now.

How is Superman beating Hulk feasible but Wonder Woman beating Hulk is just silly? Do you people even realize that Wonder Woman is only a fraction less physically powerful than Superman, and has fought him to a standstill dozens of times?

 

[Kitsune]

If an apple and an orange got into a fight to the death... which one would win?

 

[The_Mystery]

The Avengers don't exactly lack in the power department. Here is just a taste of the power on their roster: Thor, Sentry, Hercules, Iron Man, Wonderman, Scarlet Witch, Ms. Marvel, Photon, Ares, Sersi, Crystal, Namor, the Hulk, She-Hulk, and Quasar (takes a lot of power to defend the universe). That's just a taste, not even factoring the intelligence factor and the brawler factor. By the way, Cap has no problem with calling in Dr. Strange or even the Silver Surfer if necessary. There isn't one person on the JLA roster who can stand up to Norinn Radd.

 

[Marvin]

As a Marvel fan, I hate to say that all other things being equal, JLA would win. That being said, it wouldn't be a rout and I certainly wouldn't say that the Avengers couldn't win. One of the hallmarks of the Avengers is defeating far superior foes using ingenuity and teamwork. Avengers always struck me as being like a college Basket Ball team, where JLA is an NBA all Star team. JLA has more heavy hitters, while Avengers has more team players.

well said...

and in a blue moon I'm sure my high school ball team could take the celtics
I'm not being smart here, just putting the point in perspective

 

[extremefaith]

Like it seems so many have said before me, I'd LOVE to see The Avengers take the W (*win) but I just can't honestly see it happening.

Cap is the ULTIMATE leader but there is just way too much power in the JLA so I'd have to say JLA.

Dave VanSchoick
New Frontiers
www.thefinalfrontier.org
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Check it out!

 

[Ultra-Herald9]

The Avengers don't exactly lack in the power department. Here is just a taste of the power on their roster: Thor, Sentry, Hercules, Iron Man, Wonderman, Scarlet Witch, Ms. Marvel, Photon, Ares, Sersi, Crystal, Namor, the Hulk, She-Hulk, and Quasar (takes a lot of power to defend the universe). That's just a taste, not even factoring the intelligence factor and the brawler factor. By the way, Cap has no problem with calling in Dr. Strange or even the Silver Surfer if necessary. There isn't one person on the JLA roster who can stand up to Norinn Radd.

I find it funny that you keep having to pull in reserve members just to match up. In that case the JLA can just call in the JSA since every mmber of the JSA seems to have dual membership.


And enough with the "Scarlet Witch will think them away" crap! I assume to have a fair battle she isn't the crazy reality manipulator otherwise we could just as easily say Full power Ion and Parallax with a sundipped Supes for backup are in the fight. Its just not interesting that way.....

and Doctor Fate and Phantom Stranger would stop Norinn dead in his tracks.

 

[Sloth7d]

^I just don't see how the Avengers would stand up to JLA. Even with Wolverine.

I fail to see when wolverine was ever a big factor here.

 

[Varient]

Yeah sorry but Hulk would destory Wonder Woman. There's NOTHING she could do to him that he hasn't gotten out of before. The guys punched through energy fields that nothing else has gotten through, he's lifted up mountain ranges, and he's come back to life from a badly decomposed corpse.

His healing factor alone would be enough to take down Wonder Woman. Not to mention his limitless strength. LIMITLESS. You're talking about a monster who can be as strong or stronger than ANYONE/THING, and is capable of healing from almost ANYTHING. Give me a break.

I can buy the Superman beating Hulk arguments, but this is just silly now. This is what annoys Hulk fans and brings them to arguing. There are posters on this board that would have ANYONE beating Hulk.

Scary.

It has been made clear in the DC Universe that if SHE CHOSE TO she could KILL SUPERMAN.

unlike the boyscouts,... she has no qualm about killing for the right reasons.

it is not any kind of fan - boy talk to KNOW that if she fought him and determined him to be a threat,... Someone as strong as Superman? on a rampage? The fight lasts as long as it takes her to get her sword,.... shorter if she wants to muss her hair.

Did you READ her last fight against a Superman who thought he was fighting DoomsDay?

He only survived that fight because she was FIGHTING not to do permenent damage to him.

If designated a Monster,... Hulk would be toast.

If not,.. he will beat her easily because all she could do would be to restrain him with the lasso.

why r u guys going around with this?

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

If an apple and an orange got into a fight to the death... which one would win?

that´s easy: the apple!
the oroange could only win if it got prep time

 

[roach]

The Avengers don't exactly lack in the power department. Here is just a taste of the power on their roster: Thor, Sentry, Hercules, Iron Man, Wonderman, Scarlet Witch, Ms. Marvel, Photon, Ares, Sersi, Crystal, Namor, the Hulk, She-Hulk, and Quasar (takes a lot of power to defend the universe). That's just a taste, not even factoring the intelligence factor and the brawler factor. By the way, Cap has no problem with calling in Dr. Strange or even the Silver Surfer if necessary. There isn't one person on the JLA roster who can stand up to Norinn Radd.

So only the Avengers have intelligence and the brawler factor?????
and the Silver Surfer would find himself outclassed by Ion

 

[The_Mystery]

So only the Avengers have intelligence and the brawler factor?????
and the Silver Surfer would find himself outclassed by Ion

I didn't say that the JLA doesn't have the either of those, I'm saying that they are outclassed, barely mind you, by the Avengers.

BTW, are we talking about the current ION or the ION from Judd Winick's extremely horrible, character-destroying run on Green Lantern. Either way, we're talkin' about the Silver Surfer here. The same Silver Surfer that can beat Thor, the Hulk and sometimes Galactus himself. Ion is a graphic artist who has trouble with Nero. Just sayin...

 

[Brainiac 8]

Roach is right, Ion does outclass the surfer. Mind you I'm an old time Surfer fan.

The problem with this battle is that if you take the strongest iteration of the JLA and the Avengers, the JLA take it. Mostly because DC does have a tendancy to overpower their characters. I mean when you have four people on a team (Superman, Captain Marvel, Ion, and Martian Manhunter) at the same power level, its hard to compete.

Why would Superman pit himself against Thor, when Captain Marvel could do that without the weakness to magic?

On top of that, you have Wonder Woman, who is only slightly less powerful. Then there is Green Lantern and Flash, who both are extremely powerful in their own right.

As far as those who say that the Avengers come out on top because of tactical skill, the JLA have Batman who is a perfect tactician for the group. Whoever says that the JLA does not work as a team obviously has not ever read any of the major JLA stories.

 

[The_Mystery]

Roach is right, Ion does outclass the surfer. Mind you I'm an old time Surfer fan. In a battle between Ion and the Surfer it's about who has more experience and confidence in their powers and you don't it more confident or experienced than the Silver Surfer.

The problem with this battle is that if you take the strongest iteration of the JLA and the Avengers, the JLA take it. Mostly because DC does have a tendancy to overpower their characters. I mean when you have four people on a team (Superman(vulnerable to magic, which the Avengers have loads of), Captain Marvel(I'd rather have ACTUAL Gods on my team then just members powered by them), Ion(against people like the Scarelt Witch, Quasar or Photon, all who are more experience in battle than Kyle, Ion's toast), and Martian Manhunter(a stray flame or a fire-powered opponent takes makes J'onn a non-factor. Hell, I'd just sic the Vision on him)) at the same power level, its hard to compete.

Why would Superman pit himself against Thor, when Captain Marvel could do that without the weakness to magic? Thor has already put the smack down on Captain Marvel. I personally wouldn't subject a child to such a beating, that's why I use Supes.

On top of that, you have Wonder Woman, who is only slightly less powerful. Then there is Green Lantern and Flash, who both are extremely powerful in their own right. When you have folks like Hercules, She-Hulk, the Sentry, the Hulk, Quasar, Ares, Scarlet Witch, Sersi, Crystal, Photon, Ms. Marvel, etc...on your roster, it's doesn't matter about those 3.

As far as those who say that the Avengers come out on top because of tactical skill, the JLA have Batman who is a perfect tactician for the group. Whoever says that the JLA does not work as a team obviously has not ever read any of the major JLA stories.Bats is a great tactitian, but he's not a great leader. If the JLA gets together, most of the members don't like him or fear him. When the Avengers assemble, everyone looks to, listens to and admires Cap. Bats my have great tactical skills, but Cap has that, superior fighting ability to Bats and is just an already better leader than Bats. It's like Bats would be Michael Vick and Cap would be Tom Brady. Vick is a good quarterback, but Brady is a great quarterback and a strong leader.[/quote]

And for those just waiting to point out that Brady and the Pats lost Sunday, just remember the season ain't over and Brady has already lead a team to 3 Superbowl wins. Vick on the other hand...not so much.

 

[torkibe]

Roach is right, Ion does outclass the surfer. Mind you I'm an old time Surfer fan. In a battle between Ion and the Surfer it's about who has more experience and confidence in their powers and you don't it more confident or experienced than the Silver Surfer.

The problem with this battle is that if you take the strongest iteration of the JLA and the Avengers, the JLA take it. Mostly because DC does have a tendancy to overpower their characters. I mean when you have four people on a team (Superman(vulnerable to magic, which the Avengers have loads of), Captain Marvel(I'd rather have ACTUAL Gods on my team then just members powered by them), Ion(against people like the Scarelt Witch, Quasar or Photon, all who are more experience in battle than Kyle, Ion's toast), and Martian Manhunter(a stray flame or a fire-powered opponent takes makes J'onn a non-factor. Hell, I'd just sic the Vision on him)) at the same power level, its hard to compete.

Why would Superman pit himself against Thor, when Captain Marvel could do that without the weakness to magic? Thor has already put the smack down on Captain Marvel. I personally wouldn't subject a child to such a beating, that's why I use Supes.

On top of that, you have Wonder Woman, who is only slightly less powerful. Then there is Green Lantern and Flash, who both are extremely powerful in their own right. When you have folks like Hercules, She-Hulk, the Sentry, the Hulk, Quasar, Ares, Scarlet Witch, Sersi, Crystal, Photon, Ms. Marvel, etc...on your roster, it's doesn't matter about those 3.

As far as those who say that the Avengers come out on top because of tactical skill, the JLA have Batman who is a perfect tactician for the group. Whoever says that the JLA does not work as a team obviously has not ever read any of the major JLA stories.Bats is a great tactitian, but he's not a great leader. If the JLA gets together, most of the members don't like him or fear him. When the Avengers assemble, everyone looks to, listens to and admires Cap. Bats my have great tactical skills, but Cap has that, superior fighting ability to Bats and is just an already better leader than Bats. It's like Bats would be Michael Vick and Cap would be Tom Brady. Vick is a good quarterback, but Brady is a great quarterback and a strong leader.[/quote]

I agree with part one, as of right now, Surfer definitely takes Ion.

Part.2 The broken record again... Superman is no more or less vulnerable to magic than any other non magical person, including those on the Avengers. JLA had magic too... Just ask Zatanna. Martian Manhunter is not "vulnerable" to fire. Much like the misconception about Superman. He used to have a phobia about fire, but it's not like you lit a match and he fled in terror. That has since be removed and he no longer has that irrational fear. JLA has actually fought the gods and won. Just because they're not designated "gods" doesn't mean they don't have power equal to them. Besides, only Thor is a true god, and he's not even truly immortal.

Part 3.Thor put the smackdown on Capt. Marvel in a fan voted crossover. Let's not get carried away. You're putting anyone who has ever fought with the Avengers on that list.

Part 4.You're turning it into Marvel vs. DC, You're putting anyone who has ever fought with the Avengers on that list. Just about everyone in the DC universe is a member of the JSA, which is afilliated with the JLA. Lets not do that. Let's stick with the members that are or were full time.

Part 5. Batman is an equally capable tactician, if not better than Capt. America. You're right, he's not as good of a leader. It's a good thing that Superman is the leader. NO ONE is more respected than Superman. They will follow him into the depths of HELL if he asked them to.

 

[Brainiac 8]

Part 5. Batman is an equally capable tactician, if not better than Capt. America. You're right, he's not as good of a leader. It's a good thing that Superman is the leader. NO ONE is more respected than Superman. They will follow him into the depths of HELL if he asked them to.

And they have on several occasions.

 

[The_Mystery]

Let me help some people out there who seem to be having a problem with the whole "Superman vulnerable to magic" deal. It is DC CANON that Superman is vulnerable to magic. For those of you who don't know what "vulnerable" means, it means that magic can hurt him. It doesn't matter if it's a magic knife, bow and arrow, bullet or playing card, the object can pierce his skin just as a regular knife, bullet, etc...can pierce a regular humans skin. If you don't believe me look to the countless books and cartoons that show Superman getting cut with a magic card, or slashed by demon claws or cut by enchanted weapons. I know it's hard to believe, but it's true. Now in regards to Thor's hammer. It's called an "enchanted Uru war hammer" for a reason. It's a magical object. Meaning that if Thor hits Superman, who is VULNERABLE to magic with a magic hammer, then Superman will be hurt then same way that me or you would be injured if we were hit with a normal war hammer i.e. during the JLA/Avengers mini series, when Superman caught Mjolnir in his bare hands when Thor swung it at him, it should have damn near shattered all the bones in Superman's hand. That my friends was a continuity mistake.

 

[Kitsune]

Isn't using Batman as an example of a Team Player, like using Bill Clinton as an example of marital fidelity? I thought the biggest problem with Batman in the last ten years is that he hasn't been a good team player.

 

[ibsisomis]

Hey brainiac who is that in your avatar. is that the smallville characters?
That's a badass avatar! Anyways, I agree with torki. the list on this fight probably should closely resemble the cast from JLA/Avengers (which i still need the all of those after issue#1). I think it's not right to put hulk, spidey, and logan on this list at all. besides logan is totally outclassed if there is such a thing in this fight. the only person i can see him against would be batman. and speaking of him cap is a better leader no question! batman is too much of a loner. although his prep time is better than cap's he's not on cap's level of leadership skill.
here's a good analogy. the JLA to me do have more powerful people much like Team USA basketball team this year. By far the most talented team in the Olympics but they didn't work as a TEAM! I would compare the Avengers to Team Brazil (or whoever it was that beat the stuffings out of Team USA and wound up winning the gold medals.). Leadership is a very important factor in a group effort. And I think that the Avengers ability to listen to Cap and follow his orders moreso than the JLA would listen to batman or supes. But I personally think that batman should be the leader of the JLA, he normally has a cooler head than supes and is notorious for prep time, which would make there life a little easier.

 

[The_Mystery]

Hey brainiac who is that in your avatar. is that the smallville characters?
That's a badass avatar! Anyways, I agree with torki. the list on this fight probably should closely resemble the cast from JLA/Avengers (which i still need the all of those after issue#1). I think it's not right to put hulk, spidey, and logan on this list at all. besides logan is totally outclassed if there is such a thing in this fight. the only person i can see him against would be batman. and speaking of him cap is a better leader no question! batman is too much of a loner. although his prep time is better than cap's he's not on cap's level of leadership skill.
here's a good analogy. the JLA to me do have more powerful people much like Team USA basketball team this year. By far the most talented team in the Olympics but they didn't work as a TEAM! I would compare the Avengers to Team Brazil (or whoever it was that beat the stuffings out of Team USA and wound up winning the gold medals.). Leadership is a very important factor in a group effort. And I think that the Avengers ability to listen to Cap and follow his orders moreso than the JLA would listen to batman or supes. But I personally think that batman should be the leader of the JLA, he normally has a cooler head than supes and is notorious for prep time, which would make there life a little easier.

Thank you. It's like to football teams of almost equal talent on defense and offense. In the end it will be down to the quarterbacks and who is the better leader. Cap, hands down, can take his team to a win better than Superman, who doesn't even want to be a leader or looked up too.

 

[ibsisomis]

hey man you know what your alright after all! j/k!

 

[Brainiac 8]

Hey brainiac who is that in your avatar. is that the smallville characters?
That's a badass avatar! Anyways, I agree with torki. the list on this fight probably should closely resemble the cast from JLA/Avengers (which i still need the all of those after issue#1). I think it's not right to put hulk, spidey, and logan on this list at all. besides logan is totally outclassed if there is such a thing in this fight. the only person i can see him against would be batman. and speaking of him cap is a better leader no question! batman is too much of a loner. although his prep time is better than cap's he's not on cap's level of leadership skill.
here's a good analogy. the JLA to me do have more powerful people much like Team USA basketball team this year. By far the most talented team in the Olympics but they didn't work as a TEAM! I would compare the Avengers to Team Brazil (or whoever it was that beat the stuffings out of Team USA and wound up winning the gold medals.). Leadership is a very important factor in a group effort. And I think that the Avengers ability to listen to Cap and follow his orders moreso than the JLA would listen to batman or supes. But I personally think that batman should be the leader of the JLA, he normally has a cooler head than supes and is notorious for prep time, which would make there life a little easier.

My avvy is a scene from the upcoming Smallville episode "Justice". It is the early formation of the JLA. It marks the return of Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg...as well as Green Arrow and Clark.

Thanks!