JLA vs avengers

[Ultra-Herald9]

I'm not sure of Zantanna full potential but we've all seen what Scarlett Witch can do. Given any scenario where she starts to lose it, all it would take is for her to utter, "NO MORE JUSTICE LEAGUE!", and the fight is over. The next morning lex luthor wakes up to hear lex jr. crying and lois leaning over saying "It's your turn honey."

You know Zatanna can do the same thing right?

 

[supermarvelman]

Roach, I'm totally with you on this one.

The big seven has taken down a host of angels. They've stopped a creature that destroyed a universe. Power for power, the big seven lineup of the JLA is one of the most formidable teams in all comicdom. Compound this with the fact that, if need be, they can call on several more, far more powerful, members. Zauriel. The Spectre. The Phantom Stranger. Ion. They're all on the JLA. What holds the JLA back from soundly beating the Avengers, in my opinion, is that the majority of the members of the League will not use the full extent of their powers with the readiness that, say, Thor will. Putting it bluntly, while the standard Avengers are outgunned by the Big Seven, the Avengers ramp up much more quickly and efficiently than the JLA.

However, if we remove PIS and CIS, it will take someone with essentially omnipotent power to take down the Big Seven. There's around, what, three Avengers that could take an Infinite Mass Punch on a good day?

The problem with the whole argument of JLA vs Avengers is that, DC puts almost every hero on the Justice League, Marvel does not do that with the Avengers (atleast not until recently). The JLA have most of DC heaviest hitters on there reserve roster plus thay have a bigger roster including the reserve members, the Avengers have a pretty big reserve list but most of them aren't Marvels heavy hitters, plus besides Beast and Wolverine, there are barely any mutants in the Avengers. I personally think its not a fair match-up, I prefer a Marvel vs DC argument or a JLA vs Marvel Universe, I mean it really sucks that if were talking strictly JLA or Avenger members, than who is going to take on Dr. Fate if you cant use Dr. Strange

 

[ibsisomis]

Why can't you use Dr. Strange? And if Fate's on the JLA squad surely there will be no Zatanna and in that instance SW would handle DR.Fate. And as stated before, she would beat either fate or zatanna. it would be a good fight for a little while, but once SW gets tired of playing around the fight's over she's gonna win. I mean look she turned the whole MU on it's ear with a little help, not just a super team (like JLA) the WHOLE MU! That's pretty awesome!

 

[Sloth7d]

Yeah, if scarletwhich flips out,its bye bye justice league.

 

[Vanguard07]

Why can't you use Dr. Strange? And if Fate's on the JLA squad surely there will be no Zatanna and in that instance SW would handle DR.Fate. And as stated before, she would beat either fate or zatanna. it would be a good fight for a little while, but once SW gets tired of playing around the fight's over she's gonna win. I mean look she turned the whole MU on it's ear with a little help, not just a super team (like JLA) the WHOLE MU! That's pretty awesome!

Doctor Strange isnt an Avenger thats why.

 

[Horrorfan]

I don't remember any instance where Quicksilver gave the Flash any trouble at all when the two of them were fighting at top capacity.

In JLA/Avengers, the Flash pretty much spent every moment against Quicksilver laughing at him for his slowness. There was no contest.

Storm gave Wonder Woman trouble in Marvel vs. DC. That s**t is so not reliable as any source of anything, I don't even know why it keeps getting referenced. Also it was a decade ago, and Wally's abilities have pretty much quadrupled since then.

This is a marvel vs dc argument. That happened in marvel vs dc comic.
Thats why its referenced, no matter how you feel about it.

 

[ibsisomis]

You can't use that book in particular as a reference, brianwilly is right. The fans voted on who won those fight's there really isn't any competition with that at all. We all know that supes has WAY more fans than Hulk, so guess who won. then we all know that wolvie has a CRAP TON more fans than Lobo, guess who won. Superboy loosing to spiderman? Nah, that won't happen in a comic that is written correctly. Now spidey with cosmic powers would spank him but not with out the cosmic powers. But there were fights that I felt would turn out the way it did in the book, like Silver Surfer Vs. Kyle Raynor, SS would win that fight 10 out or 10 times. Thor would beat Capt. Marvel too, or Shazam or whatever he is called these days. But really Batman beating cap..... yeah that'll happen. Like I said we know batman has WAY more fans than cap so that was the reason he won.
Sorry I didn't know dr.Strange wasn't an avenger at some point in time. I really don't know much about him anyway, that's why you'll hardly ever see me comment on him.

 

[supermarvelman]

I agree with you that the crossover should not be taken seriously, its okay to reference it but we all know that it was total bull****.

 

[roach]

sorry but if you take the most powerful Avengers and the most powerful Leaguers the JLA wins

 

[torkibe]

Bravo my friend! Only one thing, there is no way and I mean no way that WW or MM can match Hulk. they aren't nearly as durable or as strong.

Dude, you obviously don't know much about Wonder Woman. She is incredibly strong, just below Superman by most accounts, she has nearly unlimited stamina and is nearly invulnerable to all forms of injury except piercing injuries. As the Hulk only uses his fists, I don't think that will be a problem. She moves almost as fast as Superman when she wants to, and has a significant healing factor. Not to mention she is an EXTREMELY skilled fighter and a master of amazonian martial arts. The only thing the Hulk has on her is pure raw strength. However, I highly doubt Diana is going to stand there and go punch for punch with him. She may not be able to put him down permanently, but believe me she can certainly keep him occupied and ceratainly has a chance of beating him.

And I forgot to mention, all that I stated above is assuming she's not using any weapons, of which she is a master of almost every weapon known to man, and has many mythical and magical weapons at her disposal.

Martian Manhunter also is just below Superman, and has held his own with Supes on a few occasions, as well as Captain Marvel. He's not as fast as they are, but neither is the Hulk. He can also turn invisible and alter his state. The Hulk would be swinging at nothing, and unless Bruce is in control, that would confuse Hulk. He's also a powerful telepath that could mess with Hulks head. The fire thing doesn't make him vulnerable to fire... He has a phobia which was changed in later years. Again, if they just stood there trading blows eventually Hulk would win, but that's not the way the fight would go down.

 

[Kitsune]

Superboy loosing to spiderman? Nah, that won't happen in a comic that is written correctly.

Um... you are full of it there. While I agree that Spider-man would have little chance in fighting Superman, he could easily beat Superboy, especially with the powers he had at that time. A lot of the other fights we're pretty silly. Namor should have beaten Aquaman for instance.

 

[torkibe]

Um... you are full of it there. While I agree that Spider-man would have little chance in fighting Superman, he could easily beat Superboy, especially with the powers he had at that time. A lot of the other fights we're pretty silly. Namor should have beaten Aquaman for instance.

I don't know about "easily". Superboy was able to use his telekentic powers to mimic Superman's powers convincingly enough that people believed he may be Superman. I'm fairly certain that his strength was well above Spider-Man, as well as his speed and durability.

 

[Tropico]

I don't know about "easily". Superboy was able to use his telekentic powers to mimic Superman's powers convincingly enough that people believed he may be Superman. I'm fairly certain that his strength was well above Spider-Man, as well as his speed and durability.

You'd be wrong if you take into consideration WHEN the fight occured. Without his tactile TK field on Kon was practically a normal guy. All his abilities (strength, flight and PARTIAL invulnerability) were due to his TK, they even went as far as to show that he was vulnerable to energy and fire attacks because those things are insubstantial and you can't really "grab" them. He was nowhere near his current power level, he didn't even have vision powers. To me, that fight was always Spidey's.

 

[supermarvelman]

sorry but if you take the most powerful Avengers and the most powerful Leaguers the JLA wins

No kidding thats exactly what I'm saying, DC have put most of there heaviest hitters (power-wise) in the JLA at one point or another, and not just heavy hitters (power-wise) but (street-level) heavy hitters.

for the Avengers you cant use characters like :

Silver Surfer
Dr. Strange
Daredevil
Iron Fist
Nova
Juggernaut

Just to name a few, atleast Hulk was on the Avengers in the beginning so atleast the Avengers have that going for them.

 

[torkibe]

You'd be wrong if you take into consideration WHEN the fight occured. Without his tactile TK field on Kon was practically a normal guy. All his abilities (strength, flight and PARTIAL invulnerability) were due to his TK, they even went as far as to show that he was vulnerable to energy and fire attacks because those things are insubstantial and you can't really "grab" them. He was nowhere near his current power level, he didn't even have vision powers. To me, that fight was always Spidey's.

I agree he was nowhere near his pre-infinite crisis level. But he was no slouch either. I think on powers alone he'd have spidey beat, even at that point. But Spidey had more skill and experience, so he still would have won.

 

[Doombringer]

Are we talking current rosters or any heroes whove been on one given team at one point or another? Because if these were "dream teams" with any specific members Id give it to Avengers. Heres my 2 cents on some match ups.

With Avenger heavy hitters like Thor, Sentry, Hulk, Ares, SW, Black Panther, Captain America, Ms. Marvel and Hercules to name a few, they can undoubtely win in my mind against JLA's Superman, GL, Batman, WW, Zantanna/or Dr. Fate, MM, etc.

Ive always believed, if ever written fairly and unbiased Thor would win 7/10 against Superman, period. Mjolnir being an enchanted weapon with Supes vulnerability to magic playing a key factor to his downfal coupled with Thors own physical strength should be more than a match for Kal. Not to mentioned Thor's more skilled in combat, has power over the storm, has beaten far tougher foes, and has his warrior madness in reserve along with his godblast. Thor just has to many tools under his belt for him to loose. The only way I see Supes pulling it off is by using his speed and his head to make the situation his with what powers he has.

Whatever Thor does to Supes, Sentry will do worse. Hes just too powerful and we still have yet to see him cut loose. It would be a battle but Reynolds would win ultimately. Hes the only one of the Avengers who can really take on mulitple powerful people. He'd make quicker work of GL also. Hulk vs Supes is probably the more closer match up of the 3. Supes just has to put him down before Hulks rage reaches a certain point, otherwise Hulk will have the upper hand... which is never easy. But if anyone could it be Supes.

Cap or BP can take out Batman in all honesty.

Ares in light to his recent kick ass mini i believe can take out WW, but WW should be able to subdue Herc, not easily mind you. WW should be able to take out Ms. Marvel too.

SW currently can and would take out Zantanna. Dr. Fate, im not to sure... perhaps, im not entirely familair in depth with his character. Reality warping is a major power to wield though, so SW in my eyes has the magic department under control.

If the roster is JLA most powerful vs Avengers most powerful i give the edge to Avengers/Marvel. If its your standard lineup, then JLA.

 

[BrianWilly]

The JLA in its most powerful incarnation includes Kyle Rayner in his first Ion phase, who was essentially God. That just ends the fight right there. Sorry, it's not very fair, but under the conditions of most powerful incarnation, he fits the bill cleanly.

Even if you take that specific form of Kyle out of the equation, the most powerful members of the JLA still includes several Green Lanterns, each capable of cosmic feats, and several Flashes, one of whom at least has gone faster than instantaneous travel. Captain Marvel and Mary Marvel, both of whom are at Superman-level strength. Martian Manhunter, a telepath that is at the least Xavier-level and -- again -- has strength enough to rival Superman himself. Orion, a New God, and Big Barda, a New Genesis denizen.

Oh, and the most powerful form of Wonder Woman houses the Godwave, which makes her several times as strong as she already is.

Again, is it fair? Nope, not in the slightest. But that's how it goes.

 

[ibsisomis]

I agree with some of the things Brianwilly said and somethings I don't. the same applies for Doombringer. Brian, I really don't think that Kyle in his "god-like" form could take out the avengers as quickly as you state. as a matter of fact, if you were to include the most powerful versions of each character (ie "god-like" WW and GL, and the superman prime) then you have to mention either Rune Thor or King Thor and WAR (Hulk's celestially inhanced version). I don't know a whole lot about Rune or King Thor but I do know that WAR (Hulk) beat Juggernaut and Absorbing man at the same time so fast it wasn't even funny! I don't thik that there is anybody who could stop either of them, that includes the 2 "godlike" GL and WW and superman prime. below are pics of the 2 book in which WAR was introduced, and I tried to get the end of the fight between he and absorbingman and juggy. I know that the early part of the fight isn't in the pics but, if you ask anybody who owns that book (ie DACMAN or somebody else) when War got serious the suposedly imovable juggy was thrown away like a piece of trash!

 

[Sloth7d]

No kidding thats exactly what I'm saying, DC have put most of there heaviest hitters (power-wise) in the JLA at one point or another, and not just heavy hitters (power-wise) but (street-level) heavy hitters.

for the Avengers you cant use characters like :

Silver Surfer
Dr. Strange
Daredevil
Iron Fist
Nova
Juggernaut

Just to name a few, atleast Hulk was on the Avengers in the beginning so atleast the Avengers have that going for them.

Meh, not being able to use DD and IF isn't a big lose, since you can use Spiderman, Spiderwoman,Luke, Cage, Ronin and Wolverine

 

[Sloth7d]

Yeah, and the avengers members strongest forms can rival some of the justice leagues members.
Rune Thor, Phycho Scarletwhich, Ms.Marvel(cosmic level), WarHulk(hell Hulk in almost ant form),Cosmic Spiderman,ect. And then you have the Sentry, who is on Galactus level.

 

[ibsisomis]

Yeah I kinda forgot about cosmic spidey, hell he was probably the most powerful beings in the MU when he had those abilities.

 

[supermarvelman]

Meh, not being able to use DD and IF isn't a big lose, since you can use Spiderman, Spiderwoman,Luke, Cage, Ronin and Wolverine

Yea but I'm talking equal matches not mis-matches, I'd much rather see Nightwing fight DareDevil or Iron Fist instead of Spider-Man or Luke Cage, power-wise Spider-Man and Luke Cage are too much for Nightwing.

 

[Varient]

Bravo my friend! Only one thing, there is no way and I mean no way that WW or MM can match Hulk. they aren't nearly as durable or as strong. I do agree with ironman not being much of a competitor in this fight though, but hawkman stand no chance against tony. No factual scans to prove it just of course my feelings but I don't see hawkman beating iron man. GL couln't stop Hulk either. CM probably would take Thor I'll give it to you there but in the Marvel Vs. Dc comic thor handed CM his booty! But I almost wish that comic series had never come out. why the hell did I even bring that crap up! oh wells, I'm not anti-Dc but there are too many characters on the roster that I don't like that much. oh and besides, MM would have his hands full with vision seeing how he is vulnerable to fire and vision as stated before has a "type" of heat vision. but your right it just depends on who is chosen to fight and who isn't. But my money is on the avengers because of leadership as someone else has said it as well.

Actually,... you don't want to go there.
WW will kill a monster in a hot second. She decides the hulk is a monster and she'll just behead him. and plz don't say she can't,... because her gear has been written to cut EVERYTHING.
.
wELL I THINK I'M OFFICIALLY DONE,.. because after ONE person said "okay" it won't be so easy for the avengers to beat the JLA,... Three or four have now given crack-pipe explanations as to how easy it would bre by verbally tweaking what powerlevels the JLA sit at while using / having access to the entire "ever been" an avenger roster.
.
If that doesn't make most rational beings realize that if you need to be able to CONSTRUCT an Avengers team to beat the standard seven JLA,....

.
Then this thread will clear a thousand posts before you guys get sick of this debate.

V.

 

[supermarvelman]

Dude, you obviously don't know much about Wonder Woman. She is incredibly strong, just below Superman by most accounts, she has nearly unlimited stamina and is nearly invulnerable to all forms of injury except piercing injuries. As the Hulk only uses his fists, I don't think that will be a problem. She moves almost as fast as Superman when she wants to, and has a significant healing factor. Not to mention she is an EXTREMELY skilled fighter and a master of amazonian martial arts. The only thing the Hulk has on her is pure raw strength. However, I highly doubt Diana is going to stand there and go punch for punch with him. She may not be able to put him down permanently, but believe me she can certainly keep him occupied and ceratainly has a chance of beating him.

And I forgot to mention, all that I stated above is assuming she's not using any weapons, of which she is a master of almost every weapon known to man, and has many mythical and magical weapons at her disposal.

Martian Manhunter also is just below Superman, and has held his own with Supes on a few occasions, as well as Captain Marvel. He's not as fast as they are, but neither is the Hulk. He can also turn invisible and alter his state. The Hulk would be swinging at nothing, and unless Bruce is in control, that would confuse Hulk. He's also a powerful telepath that could mess with Hulks head. The fire thing doesn't make him vulnerable to fire... He has a phobia which was changed in later years. Again, if they just stood there trading blows eventually Hulk would win, but that's not the way the fight would go down.

Dude even if Bruce Banner isnt in control, Hulk isnt that stupid in certain forms, look at the Hulk in Planet Hulk, he's not that stupid, it might not be his most powerful form (not yet) but Hulk will always give Superman a run for his money in any form, including Grey, he might not win but Supes would still have a tough time against Grey Hulk. I hate how everybody thinks the fastest will win 10 out of 10 times, Speed is one of the most important powers to have, but sometimes strength prevails, all it would take is one good shot from the Hulk while Superman is flying around him at near light speed, it wouldn't even matter if Supes was constantly hitting Hulk, all that would do is make him angrier (stronger), it might actually be more dangerous for Supes to use his superspeed, eventhough it has great advantages it also has great disadvatages, the faster he's moving the more pain will be dealt if Hulk connects, that would be a Doomsday-level punch that could possibly kill Superman. It also bugs me that people act like Hulk is as slow as the Blob, he has Super speed too, obviously it is nowhere close to Superman but atleast it's something.

I honestly think that if Hulk and Superman fought 10 times in a row they would each win 5 times, Supes maybe winning 6 out of 10, at the most. Superman would probably be the victor in the earlier fights, by the half-way point though, Hulk would be very very powerful, and probably to much for a worn down Supes.

 

[supermarvelman]

Actually,... you don't want to go there.
WW will kill a monster in a hot second. She decides the hulk is a monster and she'll just behead him. and plz don't say she can't,... because her gear has been written to cut EVERYTHING.
.
wELL I THINK I'M OFFICIALLY DONE,.. because after ONE person said "okay" it won't be so easy for the avengers to beat the JLA,... Three or four have now given crack-pipe explanations as to how easy it would bre by verbally tweaking what powerlevels the JLA sit at while using / having access to the entire "ever been" an avenger roster.
.
If that doesn't make most rational beings realize that if you need to be able to CONSTRUCT an Avengers team to beat the standard seven JLA,....

.
Then this thread will clear a thousand posts before you guys get sick of this debate.

V.

Everything in the DC Universe, didn't the Infinity Gems not work in the DC Universe? So I dont think she would be beheading Hulk at all, so I will say

SHE CANT DO IT

Plus we arent talking just the Big 7, last time I checked Zatanna and Dr. Fate are not part of the Big 7, smart guy. Plus DC has a very clear Big 7 and DC's big 3 aren't just the JLA big 3,they are DC Big 3 popularity-wise, Marvel doesn't so you kinda have to build your own Marvel Team. Captain America, Thor, Iron Man are the Avengers Big 3, thats for sure, and Spider-Man, Wolverine, Hulk are Marvel's Big 3 popularity-wise, but I dont think that many people would have the same vision as to who the other Big 4 would be so there.

And if we where talking current rosters, well everybody knows how that goes down

Mighty Avengers < JLA < New Avengers