The Force Awakens John Boyega as Finn

Condescension back: You actually tried to imply that fighting with a saber is something anyone can do, but shooting with a gun is an indication of non force sensitives. And your follow up is Han and Grievous as though what Finn did is more similar to using a blowtorch or spinning his arms than fighting a Sith apprentice like every other Force Sensitive. That's a hard deep yoga-worthy logical stretch. You gotta own that.



Finn represented his saber skills well, landing hits on a Sith apprentice and implied some precognition, knowing stuff he couldn't just know. I wasn't disappointed, and even if they explain his instant saber skills and clairvoyance as something other than force sensitiveness, I won't be disappoitned, because then he'll be a non force sensitive that is so badass he can go toe to toe with precogs even though he has no training whatsoever. Once he has training, geez. Jedi don't stand a chance against his super-luck powers that don't come from the force.

Yeah, no...the other poster bringing up Grievous is a completely valid argument that you dismiss in a way that isn't even true. Grievous doesn't just "spin his hands". He does in the beginning in ATOC but once Obi Wan lops off his top two arms he's able to wield two lightsabers well enough to put Obi Wan on his heels to the point where he has to force push his way out of the duel and Obi Wan was a Jedi Master. While Kylo Ren has a lot of potential he doesn't appear to be very good with the light saber and hasn't fully completed his training.
 
Ya'll think Finn would be put into those healing tanks that Luke was in Empire or Vegeta was in DBZ?
 
Okay, condescension aside. From your point of view, what was happening when a newbie Stormtrooper with nothing but a lightsaber loss under his belt started landing hits, with a lightsaber on Kylo Ren, a well trained Force Sensitive saber-master? Did you think it was bad writing? Did you think Finn was just lucky? How did you process that?

Kylo was visibly injured, and from what I could tell, toying with Finn in the early stage of the fight. Kylo underestimated him, got bit, and then quickly dispatched him as he should have from the outset.

For me, once three thin coincidences pop up in a film, knowing that the movie has been made with care, I don't look at them as coincidences, but as part of the story.

Here's the thing though, I don't interpret those things the same way that you do. Let's back track for a minute, as I'd like to ask what it is about him that gave you the impression that he was a quick, intuitive learner. The only thing I noticed that he picked up quickly was aiming gun turrets. That doesn't strike me as being too much of a far cry from his marksmanship expertise with small arms. Otherwise, he can't understand droids or wookies, can't pilot a ship, and even struggled to identify (several consecutive times) the spare part that Rey was asking for. Then there was, of course, his "we'll use the Force!" moment as well. I realize that these last two examples were played for laughs, but they still informed on his character. Again, I'm asking in earnest because perhaps I missed something.

As for him bonding with Rey, that one is completely lost on me, as I really don't see the correlation here. He bonded with Poe just as quickly, and there's nothing about their connection with one another that alludes to the Force. Were that the case, I'd imagine he'd have had an easier time locating her on Starkiller, rather than by needing to have it pointed out to him by Han.

Now certainly Han and Greivous' use of Lightsabers as blowtorches and sawblades is notable, but none of them started sword fighting like a Jedi does, which is what Finn did, which is a really hard thing to take as coincidence. By itself could possibly be something new in the Star Wars canon, but with all the otherwise unrelated thin correlations that only have one common denominator - force sensitivity - I don't choose to hold out for more information about what all these things associated with force sensitivity might really mean. Why would you?

As I said before, coupled with the fact that I don't interpret the other correlations as correlations in the first place, I don't see simply picking up a lightsaber and swinging it as a sign that one is a Jedi. From my point of view, the movie seems to want to make that point for us, especially with Finn being a red herring for Rey.

Next question: Do you perceive Finn as slower and less Precognitive than Luke in Episodes 4 or 5? Why is that? When I look at these scenes, Finn seems to move significantly faster, and fares much better in his battle. Is your perception different?

I fully realize how this answer will sound, but I'm gonna say it anyway - I honestly chalk that up to choreography and the era in which the movies were filmed. Even so, if was made very clear that Luke was a Force user, something that the movies have always went out of their way to point out, as a matter of fact.
 
Ya'll think Finn would be put into those healing tanks that Luke was in Empire or Vegeta was in DBZ?

That should have been the finale shot we got of him, and just have Rey kiss the side of the tank.
 
LOL using Grevious, who was 99.99% cyborg, as a basis to say Finn isn't Force Sensitive is stretchier than Plastic Man. You know who else used a blaster and a lightsaber in ESB? Luke Skywalker.

Finn is Force Sensitive. He's not Consular level (Luke, Yoda, Qui-Gon, Rey). If he's trained he'll be a beast with a lightsaber. The Jedi had ranks. Consulars were the Force users. Powerful as hell. Guardians were the front lines of the Jedi Knights. They were lightsaber masters. That's the difference between Rey and Finn. They're both Force Sensitive, but built for different things.

Despite having no training Rey can tap into the Force easier than Finn that's why she pwned Ren. Finn needs more training to tap into it, but it doesn't disqualify him as Force Sensitive.

If anything them being inexplicably drawn to each other is the writing on the wall. Force users are usually drawn together because their part of each other's destiny and all that. This usually happens between a Padawan and their Master so I wouldn't be surprised if Rey is the one that ends up training Finn down the line if Luke ends up biting it.

Arndt and Abrams wouldn't have deliberately seeded these coincidences for both characters if they both weren't Force Sensitive.
 
LOL using Grevious, who was 99.99% cyborg, as a basis to say Finn isn't Force Sensitive is stretchier than Plastic Man. You know who else used a blaster and a lightsaber in ESB? Luke Skywalker.

Finn is Force Sensitive. He's not Consular level (Luke, Yoda, Qui-Gon, Rey). If he's trained he'll be a beast with a lightsaber. The Jedi had ranks. Consulars were the Force users. Powerful as hell. Guardians were the front lines of the Jedi Knights. They were lightsaber masters. That's the difference between Rey and Finn. They're both Force Sensitive, but built for different things.

Despite having no training Rey can tap into the Force easier than Finn that's why she pwned Ren. Finn needs more training to tap into it, but it doesn't disqualify him as Force Sensitive.

If anything them being inexplicably drawn to each other is the writing on the wall. Force users are usually drawn together because their part of each other's destiny and all that. This usually happens between a Padawan and their Master so I wouldn't be surprised if Rey is the one that ends up training Finn down the line if Luke ends up biting it.

Arndt and Abrams wouldn't have deliberately seeded these coincidences for both characters if they both weren't Force Sensitive.

Those Jedi ranks aren't canon.
 
People keep trying to come up with reasons to usurp the movies away from Rey. And that's why they'll be disappointed in various ways. It was designed from the beginning to be about a woman. Michael Arndt talked about it. "We always wanted to write Rey as the central character," Abrams said recently. They were even worried that Jedi like Luke would get in the way of telling Rey's story. Kathleen Kennedy said that Rey is the new generation's Luke Skywalker.

Finn has a story to tell, and an arc (as do Rey and Kylo Ren), but they should be different.
 
I wouldn't be against Finn being force-sensitive but I don't see it happening. They seemed to place more emphasis on him being good with a gun
 
Do General Grievous and Han not count?

Well, to be fair, Grievous is a powerful cyborg whose skill with Lightsabers is most likely partly or completely due to him being a cyborg. As for Han, he only used it to slice open a dead Tantun, not as a weapon in combat.

That all being said, normal non Force sensitive beings can (and have) use a lightsaber as a weapon, but they won't be very good in combat with hem. This link should explain it all.

http://www.askajedi.com/2010/09/09/ask-a-jedi-can-non-force-users-can-wield-a-light-saber/
 
Last edited:
Finn represented his saber skills well, landing hits on a Sith apprentice and implied some precognition, knowing stuff he couldn't just know. I wasn't disappointed, and even if they explain his instant saber skills and clairvoyance as something other than force sensitiveness, I won't be disappoitned, because then he'll be a non force sensitive that is so badass he can go toe to toe with precogs even though he has no training whatsoever. Once he has training, geez. Jedi don't stand a chance against his super-luck powers that don't come from the force.

If he gets any powerful cybernetic implants to help him recover from his injuries, he might not need the Force in order to wield a Saber like a Jedi.
 
People keep trying to come up with reasons to usurp the movies away from Rey. And that's why they'll be disappointed in various ways. It was designed from the beginning to be about a woman. Michael Arndt talked about it. "We always wanted to write Rey as the central character," Abrams said recently. They were even worried that Jedi like Luke would get in the way of telling Rey's story. Kathleen Kennedy said that Rey is the new generation's Luke Skywalker.

Finn has a story to tell, and an arc (as do Rey and Kylo Ren), but they should be different.
What?

I dont think anyone in here is trying to "usurp" then movie from Rey. Come on. That's just silly and trying to start something.
 
I would be curious to see a poll of who is the most popular new character from TFA?
 
People keep trying to come up with reasons to usurp the movies away from Rey. And that's why they'll be disappointed in various ways.

What people are trying to usurp the movies from Rey? This is the first I've heard of anything like that. Who was disappointed with Finn's showing in TFA, where he is not the one who ultimately defeats the bad guy?

Kylo was visibly injured, and from what I could tell, toying with Finn in the early stage of the fight. Kylo underestimated him, got bit, and then quickly dispatched him as he should have from the outset.

So he underestimated him. Good. What could Finn have that Kylo didn't expect? It wasn't training... so what was it that Finn had that surprised Ren's precognition that's available to any newbie stormtrooper?

Here's the thing though, I don't interpret those things the same way that you do. Let's back track for a minute, as I'd like to ask what it is about him that gave you the impression that he was a quick, intuitive learner. The only thing I noticed that he picked up quickly was aiming gun turrets. That doesn't strike me as being too much of a far cry from his marksmanship expertise with small arms. Otherwise, he can't understand droids or wookies, can't pilot a ship, and even struggled to identify (several consecutive times) the spare part that Rey was asking for. Then there was, of course, his "we'll use the Force!" moment as well. I realize that these last two examples were played for laughs, but they still informed on his character. Again, I'm asking in earnest because perhaps I missed something.

As for him bonding with Rey, that one is completely lost on me, as I really don't see the correlation here. He bonded with Poe just as quickly, and there's nothing about their connection with one another that alludes to the Force. Were that the case, I'd imagine he'd have had an easier time locating her on Starkiller, rather than by needing to have it pointed out to him by Han.

For me, I don't consider Stormtroopers, especially newbies to have good marksmanship. In fact, I laugh at jokes about Stormtroopers having bad marksmanship because that's my experience with Star Wars. So I don't interpret him being a great shot and laying out several more experienced stormtroopers with his blaster as a natural result of storm trooper training. It has to be something else for the universe to be consistent. The fact that he is surprised at his own learning speed also signifies that something other than natural learning is taking place.

As for they Rey connection, them having perfect teamwork and finishing each other's sentences was nice, and underlined by the difference in his friendship and teamwork with Poe, but perhaps that's a generic movie miracle rather than the Force. But no Jedi, much less untrained force sensitive character does all the things that you're noticing Finn also doesn't do. Your evaluation is not consistent.

As I said before, coupled with the fact that I don't interpret the other correlations as correlations in the first place, I don't see simply picking up a lightsaber and swinging it as a sign that one is a Jedi. From my point of view, the movie seems to want to make that point for us, especially with Finn being a red herring for Rey.

I fully realize how this answer will sound, but I'm gonna say it anyway - I honestly chalk that up to choreography and the era in which the movies were filmed. Even so, if was made very clear that Luke was a Force user, something that the movies have always went out of their way to point out, as a matter of fact.

No, not always. We didn't have Leia's force connection explicitly lined out for us until Episode 6. And even if they hadn't... if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, well. Again, you seem to think all Force Sensitives exhibit qualities that all force sensitives do not exhibit in the films. You're free to feel that way of course, but it makes it hard to have a conversation based on the films about your viewpoint, since it doesn't seem to be based on the films. You don't see Finn doing things only Force Sensitives have done heretofore as relevant. You are sure anyone can do it, without evidence of such. But you see him not being able to do things force sensitives have done as irrelevant. You are sure that he should be able to do those things, despite evidence to the contrary. It doesn't seem your relevance value is based on anything consistent.

So you end up suggesting lightsabers are for everyone but guns are only for non force sensitives and that marksmanship and the ability to take down experienced stormtroopers is a result of being a newbie stormtrooper. It's just a really contradictory point of view, and you don't seem to be willing to own that at all.

Yes, Finn was a red herring, but a failed newbie stormtrooper isn't capable of being a red herring for the most powerful Jedi we've ever seen.
 
Last edited:
Despite loving Rey, Kylo and Poe, I think Finn may actually be my favourite character in this. He had so many humane moments that meant you could relate to him, and we got all of his history in the movie.

Then him standing to a Sith, with lightssber no less, was just great stuff, I knew it was coming, and still loved it, he knew he wasn't going to win, but fought Kylo anyway, one of the best moments in w movie full of great ones for me.
 
tumblr_nzosw7EvNG1qb9dp3o3_250.gif
tumblr_nzosw7EvNG1qb9dp3o2_250.gif

tumblr_nzosw7EvNG1qb9dp3o1_250.gif
tumblr_nzosw7EvNG1qb9dp3o4_250.gif
 
I just don't see him as all that Force sensitive. Or as George would put it, his midichlorian level probably ain't that high. Why does it need to be? He's already a hero. He's already cool because he handled a lightsaber and took on an evil Skywalker. He's already special in that he's a Stormtrooper defector. He's already unique in that he's the first minority Trinity SW character. He doesn't need to be Mary Sue'd to continue to be a good character. Not everyone needs to have innate abilities tied to Force sensitivity. Let some characters be heroicly flawed.

I was thinking about it last night, and I think his importance could be tied to the fact that as a Stormtrooper turned good, he'll be diametrically opposed to a certain Rebel who'll turn bad.
 
Finn might have been force sensitive in the beginning what with the way he acted after his buddy got killed.
Once the movie got in full swing though you saw less of those moments and more of finn utilizing his stormtrooper training
 
Loved Finn. Great addition to the story. Loved Rey and Finn's friendship. :) Loved every moment of it. lols. Even the banter between Finn and Han. So awesome.
 
Yeah, I don't think Finn is Force Sensitive at all. And he doesn't need to be. The whole point of his story is that anyone, no matter who they are, has the capacity to do good, be brave, have compassion for others, and be a true hero, and that they don't need special powers to do so. His entire arc is about rejecting what others wanted him to be or what they see him as, and him deciding for himself who he is. Him being force sensitive would be counter-intuitive to this.

Okay, so then how was he
able to wield a lightsaber then, and stand up against Kylo? Well, a lightsaber, just like anything else, is just another weapon. Granted, one that requires a lot of skill to use properly (hence why its the weapon of a Jedi), but there are enough examples in the films of those who are not Force Sensitive being able to use a lightsaber, i.e. using it to cut open the Tantun for Luke. Also, Finn, in both his fight against the staff-welding trooper and Kylo was defeated, and you could tell Finn, while being able to get in some hits, really wasn't all that skilled in using the saber, either.
 
Which is funny, considering he's a stormtrooper :oldrazz:

LOL! I was thinking the same thing, especially when
during Finn and Poe's escape from the Star Destroyer, where Poe tells Finn to get on the cannons and how to operate them, I thought, "Oh boy, these guys are screwed. :woot:
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Staff online

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
202,288
Messages
22,079,819
Members
45,880
Latest member
Heartbeat
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"