The Force Awakens John Boyega as Finn

[combocaz]

John boyega was awesome brought great energy to his character. His chemistry with finn and rey was perfect.

 

[Visualiza]

Condescension back: You actually tried to imply that fighting with a saber is something anyone can do

Pump the brakes. My exact words were “anybody can pick up a lightsaber”, which I then clarified by highlighting the difference between simply using the weapon of a Jedi, and using it effectively. There's a world of difference there.

but shooting with a gun is an indication of non force sensitives.

Show me where I said this. If we're going to debate, then let's have at it, but please don't put words in my mouth. The point is that Finn was more comfortable falling back on the familiarity of his training rather than continuing to use a weapon that he was both unfamiliar and ineffective with. In no way is that the same as saying “shooting guns = no Force”

And your follow up is Han and Grievous as though what Finn did is more similar to using a blowtorch or spinning his arms than fighting a Sith apprentice like every other Force Sensitive. That's a hard deep yoga-worthy logical stretch. You gotta own that.

On the contrary, you have to own that you're either misunderstanding what I'm saying, or you're intentionally misrepresenting my positions. If what I've said is unclear, then ask me to clarify. I've extended you the same courtesy, yet you've refused to oblige. Case in point - Han & Grievous. My reference to them was strictly in regards to your assertion that whomsoever wields a lightsaber without being FS will lose a limb. This is reinforced by my question, to which you still haven't responded, “when or where was that precedent ever established?” In any case, Grievous is a better comparison than you're willing to admit. You hold onto his saw trick as if that's the only thing he did during the encounter, but keep in mind that as soon as that was interrupted, he fought Obi-Wan more traditionally. Didn't sever his own limbs, and he isn't FS, so I'll take my point a step further - anyone can use the weapon of a Jedi, but that doesn't make them akin to that of a Jedi. Using a Beretta M9 doesn't make me law enforcement, nor does swinging around a katana make me a samurai. I can jump on a horse, but that doesn't make me an equestrian. Even if there were no examples in the movies of a non-FS using a saber, it wouldn't be necessary; it's biology.

So he underestimated him. Good. What could Finn have that Kylo didn't expect? It wasn't training... so what was it that Finn had that surprised Ren's precognition that's available to any newbie stormtrooper?

I don't think it had anything to do with Finn, but rather Kylo’s own hubris. The overabundance of pride tends to go hand in hand. Either way, I think you're overselling Finn based upon that singular blow he managed to get in. Keep in mind what happened immediately after.

For me, I don't consider Stormtroopers, especially newbies to have good marksmanship.

.
According to promo material, he's an excellent marksman, finishing in the top 1% of his peer group. While these things tend to be a slippery slope in some cases, in this particular instance, it's at least consistent with what we've witnessed in the movie. With that established, I'll reiterate - him showing aptitude with a gun turret isn't a far cry from his background in small arms marksmanship. Doesn't suggest that FS is at play here.

The fact that he is surprised at his own learning speed also signifies that something other than natural learning is taking place.

For the above reasons, I disagree. Were it something particularly unusual or a bit more unfamiliar, then I might agree that you're on to something. In Luke's case from ANY, he had to recall Obi-Wan’s guidance and actually commit to using the Force to aid him. Finn, from what I took from the scene, simply put 2 and 2 together (his knowledge of marksmanship + Poe’s instruction) and continued to develop that ability. I'll chalk that up to repetition. You repeat a learned skill often enough, you'll become more proficient in said skill. I'll ask again though, is there anything else he managed to pick up quickly that gives you reason to believe that he's FS? Because if not, then a singular ability that's closely related to what he's been trained for isn't very convincing, IMO.

As for they Rey connection, them having perfect teamwork and finishing each other's sentences was nice, and underlined by the difference in his friendship and teamwork with Poe, but perhaps that's a generic movie miracle rather than the Force. But no Jedi, much less untrained force sensitive character does all the things that you're noticing Finn also doesn't do. Your evaluation is not consistent.

Sure there are, Jedi or otherwise. Numerous characters throughout both trilogies have displayed knowledge and talent of things that Finn is unable to grasp. He's portrayed as a very imperfect character, and that's actually one of the things I like about him. He was consistently shown to be the guy that doesn't have all the answers, doesn't always know what to do or how to do it, and often times, unsure of himself. It was a breath of fresh air. I said it earlier in the thread, but of the new leads, Finn is so green that he potentially has the highest ceiling in terms of character development, and I find that exciting.

No, not always. We didn't have Leia's force connection explicitly lined out for us until Episode 6. And even if they hadn't... if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, well.

Good point with regard to Leia, but regarding the latter is where we fundamentally disagree. I don't think that Finn looks, walks, or quacks like a duck at all.

Again , you seem to think all Force Sensitives exhibit qualities that all force sensitives do not exhibit in the films. You're free to feel that way of course, but it makes it hard to have a conversation based on the films about your viewpoint, since it doesn't seem to be based on the films.

No, what I actually think is that Finn hasn't displayed the characteristics of being FS, and I find your three primary examples, learning to shoot a turret, teamwork with Rey, and swinging a lightsaber, to be tenuous at best. Let's recap - the first two are not evidence at all, which are too commonplace and indeterminate to be used as such. Using a lightsaber is the best evidence to support the theory, but I've given examples and plenty of reasoning as to why I believe that doesn't hold up. A Jedi does indeed swing a lightsaber, but swinging a lightsaber doesn't make one a Jedi. There's a very distinct difference.

You don't see Finn doing things only Force Sensitives have done heretofore as relevant. You are sure anyone can do it, without evidence of such.

As above, I'll only acknowledge one thing, since the others are just dubiously vague. With that said, I've provided evidence, but you've chosen to either ignore it, misunderstand me, or distort my argument. What more evidence do you really need? As I and many others have pointed out, anyone can physically wield any weapon, but that doesn't mean that they're a Jedi. Keep in mind that I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm also not asserting that I'm right, either, as neither one of us can say conclusively. What I will say, however, is that I don't stand convinced.

But you see him not being able to do things force sensitives have done as irrelevant. You are sure that he should be able to do those things, despite evidence to the contrary. It doesn't seem your relevance value is based on anything consistent.

Given how much of my argument you've dismissed, distorted, or ignored, I could say the same about you. Looks like we've got a communication problem. Case in point…

So you end up suggesting lightsabers are for everyone but guns are only for non force sensitives and that marksmanship and the ability to take down experienced stormtroopers is a result of being a newbie stormtrooper.

New
…And that in no way resembles my argument. It's easy to call an argument contradictory when you build a strawman out of it.

Yes, Finn was a red herring, but a failed newbie stormtrooper isn't capable of being a red herring for the most powerful Jedi we've ever seen.

I'll add that he wasn't a failure, but that's exactly what happened

 

[Blade X]

I'm surprised no one has either asked Abrams if Finn is Force sensitive or voiced their disappointment in Finn being mostly useless in a fight in this movie. I would be very curious to see what Abrams answer/response would be.

 

[spider-neil]

It was Rey's movie but Finn was definitely my favourite character.
I was watching a review and a criticism of Finn was he was too emotive to be a Storm trooper. Erm, surely his personality and what is within him is the reason he rejects the Storm troopers in the first place.

Attack the Block is one of my favourite horror movies of all time. It would have been cool if Finn killed someone and said 'You just got merked, bruv ' or 'Allow it'.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

It was Rey's movie but Finn was definitely my favourite character.
I was watching a review and a criticism of Finn was he was too emotive to be a Storm trooper. Erm, surely his personality and what is within him is the reason he rejects the Storm troopers in the first place.

Yeah that was the point of the character so...duh.

 

[spider-neil]

delete

 

[spider-neil]

Yeah that was the point of the character so...duh.

The used the character of the Unsullied from Game of Thrones (emotionless soldiers) as an example of how Finn should act. Erm, none of the Unsullied have ever rebelled or defected which goes further to disprove their point.

 

[harryoscop]

Holy ****, Neil! I haven't seen you in AGES! good to see ya.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

The used the character of the Unsullied from Game of Thrones (emotionless soldiers) as an example of how Finn should act. Erm, none of the Unsullied have ever rebelled or defected which goes further to disprove their point.

Oh so they decided to make up a different movie in their heads and fault the film for not living up to that made up movie.

 

[spider-neil]

Holy ****, Neil! I haven't seen you in AGES! good to see ya.

HARRY!!!!

I skip the Spider boards during casting and shooting of new Spider-Man movies as it is spoiler central there

 

[spider-neil]

Oh so they decided to make up a different movie in their heads and fault the film for not living up to that made up movie.

I said the exact same. They decided to be armchair directors and then criticized the movie in front of them because it didn't match their idea of how a Storm trooper should act.

 

[harryoscop]

HARRY!!!!

I skip the Spider boards during casting and shooting of new Spider-Man movies as it is spoiler central there

Ah, I understand. But I hope to see ya again on the Spidey boards someday. A lot of posters were/are wondering why you left. Maybe when the new suit is revealed.

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

HARRY!!!!

I skip the Spider boards during casting and shooting of new Spider-Man movies as it is spoiler central there

Dude it's been dry as hell over there. No news on anything

 

[spider-neil]

Ah, I understand. But I hope to see ya again on the Spidey boards someday. A lot of posters were/are wondering why you left. Maybe when the new suit is revealed.

Maybe

Will definitely live on the Spider forum again after the Spider-Man movie is released in 2017. Until then, I mainly hang out in the main general movie forum. And when any major is released (like TFA) I hang out there a while. Hope to see you around

 

[spider-neil]

Dude it's been dry as hell over there. No news on anything

So I'm not missing anything

 

[writer0327]

Finn is force sensitive. He fought the FO's brainwashing that's been going on since he was a young child. Along with all of his other remarkable feats.

 

[Visualiza]

I'm surprised no one has either asked Abrams if Finn is Force sensitive or voiced their disappointment in Finn being mostly useless in a fight in this movie. I would be very curious to see what Abrams answer/response would be.

I'm sure a bunch of people have blown up his Twitter. Did you ever get a chance to see the movie, btw? What did you think of Finn?

 

[Blade X]

I'm sure a bunch of people have blown up his Twitter. Did you ever get a chance to see the movie, btw? What did you think of Finn?

Not yet. However, I've seen parts (mainly non action scenes featuring Finn) of the movie online from some "questionable sources", and I have to say that in those scenes Finn comes off as a very cool,interesting,and likable character. There were 2 scenes that I've seen that I think (and I could be wrong) hint at Finn being (at the very least) Force sensitive. The 2 scenes that I'm talking about are (a) when Ben takes special notice of him after the Storm Troopers wiped out that village at the beginning of the film and (b) when the alien that Lupita played looked into Finn's eyes and was telling him about himself. Hopefully, I will be seeing this movie soon on the big screen this weekend.

 

[Snow Queen]

I'm not sure if it's just the bad quality of what you watched but[BLACKOUT] Kylo looking at Finn after the Jakku slaughter wasn't anything to do with the force, simply that he didn't fire on them like the others.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Blade X]

It was Rey's movie but Finn was definitely my favourite character.

Based on the little I've seen of this movie, this wasn't Rey's movie, this was Rey and Finn's movie.

 

[misjuevos]

I was wondering why Boyega didn't just use his own accent. Would have been ok. I actually didn't see any footage of him speaking before seeing the movie. I only saw some of his interviews. His real accent is better. I actually didn't like some of his humor in the film and found him to be not that interesting, YET. The only thing his character had going for him was he can breath heavy and sweat a lot I guess. I was hoping he was a Jedi too then we could see him and Rey train with Luke later on. I guess it could still happen though.

 

[Blade X]

I'm not sure if it's just the bad quality of what you watched but[BLACKOUT] Kylo looking at Finn after the Jakku slaughter wasn't anything to do with the force, simply that he didn't fire on them like the others.[/BLACKOUT]

That's what I originally thought to, but then I thought that if Kylo (who was standing a short distant behind the Troopers and watching the Troopers carry out there orders) noticed him not firing, then why didn't he just kill him right then and there for not obeying his orders? Also, in that scene the shooting was all over when Kylo was walking and then stopped and turned to look at Finn. This makes me wonder if Kylo was able to see if Finn was firing from the position where he was standing.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Finn is 23. That's in the Visual Dictionary.

https://***********/pablohidalgo/status/679462857486958593

So Boyega was playing Finn a year older than he was last year.

 

[spider-neil]

I'm not sure if it's just the bad quality of what you watched but[BLACKOUT] Kylo looking at Finn after the Jakku slaughter wasn't anything to do with the force, simply that he didn't fire on them like the others.[/BLACKOUT]

I think it's more fair to say KR felt the conflict within Finn.

 

[gohei_]

That's what I originally thought to, but then I thought that if Kylo (who was standing a short distant behind the Troopers and watching the Troopers carry out there orders) noticed him not firing, then why didn't he just kill him right then and there for not obeying his orders? Also, in that scene the shooting was all over when Kylo was walking and then stopped and turned to look at Finn. This makes me wonder if Kylo was able to see if Finn was firing from the position where he was standing.

Phasma did order him to leave his weapon in for inspection. Maybe that's what everyone does aftter a battle or maybe he told someone his weapon was malfunctioning, and that's why he did not shoot anyone.