Kabooooom...

[Super Flight]

good points

 

[The Batman]

I've not spoken to you before but on reading some of your posts I'm not surprised.

I also agree with the sentiment of Nell's message but even if certain events do happen, the film can still be good/a turkey on other merits/cock ups.

Cyke's death, IMO, is the black mark on what could be a good film.

 

[Dark Beast]

Cyke's death, IMO, is a big marketing rumor similar to the rumoured Kirk death in Star Trek VI.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Would i be right in guessing that all this is b/c Cyclops is worm food in X3 ?

I have complete apathy with that situation,to quote Ivan Drago "If he dies.....he dies"

 

[jmao]

Cyke's death, IMO, is a big marketing rumor similar to the rumoured Kirk death in Star Trek VI.

haha i cant tell if youre serious... cause it could be true..

 

[The Batman]

Cyke's death, IMO, is a big marketing rumor similar to the rumoured Kirk death in Star Trek VI.

I dont think they care about him nearly as much as paramount does kirk

 

[Iceman]

Cyke's death, IMO, is the black mark on what could be a good film.

I agree. I'm hoping the good will outweigh the bad associated with his death. I can see how this might not be easy or even possible for hardcore Cyke fans.

 

[The Batman]

I agree. I'm hoping the good will outweigh the bad associated with his death. I can see how this might not be easy or even possible for hardcore Cyke fans.

Yup. Besides that and Logan copping Cykes role, everything else sounds good

 

[LEX]

Yup. Besides that and Logan copping Cykes role, everything else sounds good

^Agreed. Apart from the Sentinels not being the final battle, of course.

 

[XCharlieX]

Like I said before.. if the death scenes add to the films drama, im not bothered, but i just hope theyre not wasted with a weak movie.

I also believe in 2 universes: comic(cartoon) universe and movie universe. Im a fan more of the movie universe, but if one wants every detail followed to the comics i bet they could make some great animated movies where those elaborate storylines etc are more acceptable, id recommend the same folks who did the animated series. I watched that.

 

[onejeremytogo]

Sorry Worthy, I couldn't do it.

I've been beaten and battered this past year, with Singer leaving, Vaughn's disrespect of Singer's movies, the secrets revolving around Gambit's character, only to dump him from the movie, with hypocritical excuses like "we wanted to do him justice, and didn't want to ruin his intro with a cameo" dispite the fact that full on characters in this franchise like Pyro, Iceman, Beast, Kitty Pryde, and Colossus all had their intros with cameos... along with beloved characters who are being drastically changed from their comic counterparts like Trask and Callisto, to the AICN script review that had everyone worried, and I was on the front lines of optimism trying to keep everyone's spirits up.

But I've taken a beating that I don't know that I can endure anymore. Maybe it's just because the movie is SO close now (yet still feels so far away), and I'm just too excited for this, and can hardly wait any longer. But I'm succuming to the dark side

These novelizations... both saying that Cyclops dies, the heavy hints that Wolverine becomes the leader of the team, and is Jean's savior in the Phoenix Saga... I'm still anticipating this movie, I still can't wait, I still go to 7-11 everyday to get my Slurpee cups... but I can't be as optimistic as I was.

If this is how it goes down, these aren't my X-Men.

I can handle Wolverine being the main guy. He's the main guy in the comics, cartoons, video games, everything. He may not be the poster boy of the X-Men ideals, which is Cyclops, but he really is Batman to everyone else's Robin. People think X-Men, they picture Wolverine. And this isn't just from the movies. It's always been that way.

But these movies worked because despite making Wolverine a major focus, Singer and his creative team got what the X-Men stood for, got what these characters were about, and still brought that to the forefront. It was still the X-Men.

Now obviously, we haven't seen the movie, and don't know... but if Cyclops dies, and Wolverine becomes a leader... that's not the X-Men.

Everything I've seen thus far from TV spots and trailers has been amazing. Magneto is going to bring his prophesized war to the humans' doorstep. Jean Grey will rise as the Phoenix. Halle Berry will shut everyone up and Storm will become the fighter she is. Iceman will ice up. Beast and Angel will make their debuts, and Colossus will become a full fledged teammate.

Everything looks awesome, and very few movies impress me on this level from trailers alone, and every single one that did impressed me in theatres.

But no matter how good of a movie this might be otherwise, it won't be a good X-MEN movie if Cyclops dies and Wolverine becomes a leader, and is Jean's savior. It's what I've been trying to say all along when people actually defended these rumored deaths, saying "it's a war, there has to be death to show the seriousness of the issue"... no, it's not a war. It's a conflict, on a small island in a bay. Regardless of any "Last Stand" subtitle, or anything else, this is not a war movie, it's an X-Men movie, and it must be an X-Men movie first and foremost. Changes will need to be made to make a film adaptation to work... but you still must remain faithful. Killing off Cyclops is not faithful. Making Wolverine a leader is not faithful.

I really want to geek out over this movie. I want to see it 5 times straight over opening weekend. I want to go for my 5th time on my birthday, and annoy all my friends as I quote the entire movie in the theatre. I want to anticipate the release of the DVD, and the day it comes out when I will totally geek out and watch all 3 movies back-to back-to back in a single sitting.

And for so long I expected that to be the case.

But I just don't know anymore.

With these novelizations released, there doesn't seem to be much hope anymore of this movie being an X-Men movie. These movies for so long have not been just "X-Men In Name Only", but from everything I'm hearing, they very well could.

There's always possibilities. Until we see the final product, anything is possible. These novelizations surely weren't written just recently, they would have had to have been in development for quite some time. Perhaps they are based off of the early drafts of the scripts (along the lines of what AICN got ahold of last year), early drafts that have been changed since then. But... X2's novelization surely would have been in development in earlier stages as well, and surely that film also when through script changes.

Perhaps it's all a plot. X2 had Jean surviving in the end. In the movie, she dies. Maybe Fox wanted these novelizations to keep the death of Cyclops in the novels, to keep this charade up. But then again, this isn't junior high, this is a professional company, how long will they keep these mind games up, and how far will they really go just to trick us internet geeks?

The beating has taken it's toll on me. I'm still looking forward to this movie, just as much as I was before... but now there is that sense of negativity around it, that this won't be the X-Men, it won't be their last stand.

I'm an easy date. All I need is one sign... ANYTHING, to give me hope that Cyclops lives. That Wolverine doesn't become the poster boy for the X-Men ideology. That this really will be an X-MEN movie. But at this point, I don't know that I'm gonna see it until May 26th

I'm sorry for making a new thread... but I really just had to rant. I had to get that off of my chest. I hope that you all can forgive me for making a new thread on something that's being discussed in numerous places as it is.

I'm scared....

Didn't want to know that cyke dies. Thanks.

 

[silver_arrow]

I don't want to be in here if it turns out that in the movie Cyclops indeed dies.

 

[CapBeerCino]

But no matter how good of a movie this might be otherwise, it won't be a good X-MEN movie if Cyclops dies and Wolverine becomes a leader, and is Jean's savior.

I'm scared....

I couldn't agree more My worst fear is for the Cyclops thread to become one big support group after the 26th.

 

[ororoandme]

I agree with Neil....as much as X-Men is a beyond just one character...Cyclops is the first and the embodiment of the X-Men...he is the epitome of Xavier's dream...and killign him off feels empty and shallow and disrespectful of the X-Men.

 

[Cyan]

Nell, alright, I share the same thought about the film.
I know that's a stupid thing to come, but I don't 'follow the crowd' in likes or dislikes about characters. I'm a good Wolverine's fan, just for kidding always the comparisons in online quiz I get the result as Wolverine [I like it a bit, dislike another bit], but I have to agree I have little traces of Logan personality. In the other hand I admire MUCH Cyclops. I really need to say that Cyclops is not well used properly in X-Movies as he is in the comics.

I mean, not just the matter of Jean, Cyclops is a pillar for the team. People just come and say that he's boring, or a too-much good guy. Well, we have to have antagonists :P

Cyclops deserves more, even more than Wolverine IMO. Can't believe that Fox and verybody involved don't see that he's being bashed enough.

Despite people who say that Marsden was a bad choice. That's not true. If you don't give the character depth, don't expect solely the actor to make one by himself.

I do hope, as most of Cyclops fan around the world that this death is a lie.
Some contrary-marketing, something obviously bad, but that keep us tuned to know if really the truth.

I need to get breathless, I need to be surprised. The film must have turns and turn and though we know that they have the ideal formula for something, they should have the same formula to Cyclops matter.

If they will continue to lower Scott in the movieverse, well, is stupidity, once we know for sure that is monetarily bad for them.

I don't believe that they didn't get the idea. Even non Cyclops fans think that's not needed. Adds to the drama? Ok, but it seems cheesy to go for that road.

I keep sayin'...

 

[X-Maniac]

But what about when Green Goblin died in Spider-Man and Dr Octopus in Spider-Man 2 - was that disrespectful to the Spider-Man comics and Spider-Man's universe?

When Joker, Penguin and Two-Face died in the Batman movies, and when Ra's Al Ghul died in Batman Begins, was that disrespectful to the Batman comics and Batman's universe? (The last two of the earlier Bat-movies may have been disrespectful entirely, but the first two pre-Schumacher movies are not criticised by fans).

Can characters in movies expect to follow the same 'laws' as the comics?

 

[The Kid]

batman 89 was and still is critisized for killing the joker (I don't really care about joker enough to want him to live really so i never did)

green goblin dying is straight out the comics since he dies in them too (I'm not sure how, but that's what i've read)

the rule in comicbook movies, is that if there is no dead body found, the character may still be alive. Ra's, and hell, even Penguin even thugh he clearly falls dead and is pushed down into the water by his penguin friends follow this rule well enough. Ock too.

cyclops, leader of the x-men. the husband of jean gray in the comics. The father of rachael summers. The one person Xavier trusts most.

is dead.

That's remarkably uncool when all these other characters get to live and even wolverine becomes a leader of the x-men when he's supposed to be the badass rebellious one.... Kill rogue if yu want an x-men member dead so badly. Nobdy likes her as much as cyke.

 

[conan69]

My problem isnt with a character dying but being treated properly.

 

[GNR]

Joss Whedon? Idiot? My, I think that's a first.

Certainly not an idiot,but a highly overrated comic book writer indeed.

 

[Cyan]

Kill rogue if yu want an x-men member dead so badly. Nobdy likes her as much as cyke.

Speak for yourself.

I think is amusing people compare Spiderman and X-Men... For me it's obvious the result: X-Men has depth, is society's reality, not a personal problem-like. Not a tragedy based in a romantic realtionship.

And most people don't consider villains death a problem. I do not agree with that, just an statment.

Comparing leader Cyclops death to Green Goblin death and the following plot of each film is a little problematic to do so.

Let's compare Magneto and villains, not the next hierarchic pillar of X-Men, after Charles Xavier.

 

[conan69]

"Certainly not an idiot,but a highly overrated comic book writer indeed."

I recently picked up Astonishing Xmen after not reading a Xmen comic book since 1984.

I was amazing howmuch I enjoyed the first 1/2 of the storyline. The second 1/2 wasnt nearly as good and the quality has dropped continuously since.

I think the first 1/2 is excellent though.

 

[GNR]

Sorry Worthy, I couldn't do it.

I've been beaten and battered this past year, with Singer leaving, Vaughn's disrespect of Singer's movies, the secrets revolving around Gambit's character, only to dump him from the movie, with hypocritical excuses like "we wanted to do him justice, and didn't want to ruin his intro with a cameo" dispite the fact that full on characters in this franchise like Pyro, Iceman, Beast, Kitty Pryde, and Colossus all had their intros with cameos... along with beloved characters who are being drastically changed from their comic counterparts like Trask and Callisto, to the AICN script review that had everyone worried, and I was on the front lines of optimism trying to keep everyone's spirits up.

But I've taken a beating that I don't know that I can endure anymore. Maybe it's just because the movie is SO close now (yet still feels so far away), and I'm just too excited for this, and can hardly wait any longer. But I'm succuming to the dark side

These novelizations... both saying that Cyclops dies, the heavy hints that Wolverine becomes the leader of the team, and is Jean's savior in the Phoenix Saga... I'm still anticipating this movie, I still can't wait, I still go to 7-11 everyday to get my Slurpee cups... but I can't be as optimistic as I was.

If this is how it goes down, these aren't my X-Men.

I can handle Wolverine being the main guy. He's the main guy in the comics, cartoons, video games, everything. He may not be the poster boy of the X-Men ideals, which is Cyclops, but he really is Batman to everyone else's Robin. People think X-Men, they picture Wolverine. And this isn't just from the movies. It's always been that way.

But these movies worked because despite making Wolverine a major focus, Singer and his creative team got what the X-Men stood for, got what these characters were about, and still brought that to the forefront. It was still the X-Men.

Now obviously, we haven't seen the movie, and don't know... but if Cyclops dies, and Wolverine becomes a leader... that's not the X-Men.

Everything I've seen thus far from TV spots and trailers has been amazing. Magneto is going to bring his prophesized war to the humans' doorstep. Jean Grey will rise as the Phoenix. Halle Berry will shut everyone up and Storm will become the fighter she is. Iceman will ice up. Beast and Angel will make their debuts, and Colossus will become a full fledged teammate.

Everything looks awesome, and very few movies impress me on this level from trailers alone, and every single one that did impressed me in theatres.

But no matter how good of a movie this might be otherwise, it won't be a good X-MEN movie if Cyclops dies and Wolverine becomes a leader, and is Jean's savior. It's what I've been trying to say all along when people actually defended these rumored deaths, saying "it's a war, there has to be death to show the seriousness of the issue"... no, it's not a war. It's a conflict, on a small island in a bay. Regardless of any "Last Stand" subtitle, or anything else, this is not a war movie, it's an X-Men movie, and it must be an X-Men movie first and foremost. Changes will need to be made to make a film adaptation to work... but you still must remain faithful. Killing off Cyclops is not faithful. Making Wolverine a leader is not faithful.

I really want to geek out over this movie. I want to see it 5 times straight over opening weekend. I want to go for my 5th time on my birthday, and annoy all my friends as I quote the entire movie in the theatre. I want to anticipate the release of the DVD, and the day it comes out when I will totally geek out and watch all 3 movies back-to back-to back in a single sitting.

And for so long I expected that to be the case.

But I just don't know anymore.

With these novelizations released, there doesn't seem to be much hope anymore of this movie being an X-Men movie. These movies for so long have not been just "X-Men In Name Only", but from everything I'm hearing, they very well could.

There's always possibilities. Until we see the final product, anything is possible. These novelizations surely weren't written just recently, they would have had to have been in development for quite some time. Perhaps they are based off of the early drafts of the scripts (along the lines of what AICN got ahold of last year), early drafts that have been changed since then. But... X2's novelization surely would have been in development in earlier stages as well, and surely that film also when through script changes.

Perhaps it's all a plot. X2 had Jean surviving in the end. In the movie, she dies. Maybe Fox wanted these novelizations to keep the death of Cyclops in the novels, to keep this charade up. But then again, this isn't junior high, this is a professional company, how long will they keep these mind games up, and how far will they really go just to trick us internet geeks?

The beating has taken it's toll on me. I'm still looking forward to this movie, just as much as I was before... but now there is that sense of negativity around it, that this won't be the X-Men, it won't be their last stand.

I'm an easy date. All I need is one sign... ANYTHING, to give me hope that Cyclops lives. That Wolverine doesn't become the poster boy for the X-Men ideology. That this really will be an X-MEN movie. But at this point, I don't know that I'm gonna see it until May 26th

I'm sorry for making a new thread... but I really just had to rant. I had to get that off of my chest. I hope that you all can forgive me for making a new thread on something that's being discussed in numerous places as it is.

I'm scared....

Nell,I'm not getting you here.So to sum it up in one sentence,you'll be pissed if Cyke bites it and Wolvie becomes leader?

Why is that so surprising?Hugh Jackman has been the main star and character since X1.Marsden was committed to a role in Superman Returns as well while X3 was in development.There's no way he could have had a huge role as leader.

I'll even say that this entire franchise hasn't felt like an X-Men franchise for the sole fact that the whole "team" aspect of the X-Men wasn't nailed to full effect in X1 and especially X2.It's always been everyone occupied or trapped while Wolverine does all the ass kicking.

Cyke was screwed over since X2,not starting with X3.Instead of blaming the current writers and director,we have Singer to thank for giving Cyke the shaft in X2.

If he dies,oh well,it's still an x-flick.Wolvie is a competent leader as much as Cyke is.If the dude can lead Ms Marvel,Spider-Man,Spider-Woman,and Luke Cage,he can lead anybody.

 

[GNR]

"Certainly not an idiot,but a highly overrated comic book writer indeed."

I recently picked up Astonishing Xmen after not reading a Xmen comic book since 1984.

I was amazing howmuch I enjoyed the first 1/2 of the storyline. The second 1/2 wasnt nearly as good and the quality has dropped continuously since.

I think the first 1/2 is excellent though.

Mmm,even with the first arc,I was gone at Ord and Breakworld.The X-Men fighting aliens(Ord) has always been the least appealing thing to me.That's the F4 and the Avengers' job.I understand the hype over Whedon for his tv work which is probably good,but I can think of so many other writers who came to comics from tv and have done a far better job.Then again,this is coming from a non die hard x-fan.

 

[Another_Fool]

But what about when Green Goblin died in Spider-Man and Dr Octopus in Spider-Man 2 - was that disrespectful to the Spider-Man comics and Spider-Man's universe?

When Joker, Penguin and Two-Face died in the Batman movies, and when Ra's Al Ghul died in Batman Begins, was that disrespectful to the Batman comics and Batman's universe? (The last two of the earlier Bat-movies may have been disrespectful entirely, but the first two pre-Schumacher movies are not criticised by fans).

Can characters in movies expect to follow the same 'laws' as the comics?

Actually Green Goblin dies (in the Clone Saga Norman Osborn came back) but they were faithful not in only killing Goblin, but in the way he died as well.

Doc Ock actually has "died" plenty of times in the comics. But even so, I think people can accept a villain's death better, simply because of the story.

However, from what I'm reading, I think I need to clarify something. From what I understand, most of the fans don't mind that Cyclops isn't in the forefront, and most fans actually don't mind if Cyclops dies per se.

The problem people have is how unceremoniously Cyclops seems to die, and when he dies. Getting killed on a "Woops!" moment by Jean Grey/Dark Phoenix and not even be there at the end of one of his main story arcs really sucks. Let me lay out a scenario - if lets say at the end of this movie Jean Grey is just totally uncontrollable and Cyclops realizes there's just no way to take her out without giving her a healthy FULL blast of his optics with him close by - therefore sacrificing himself as well, people wouldn't be so bummed about his death. He would go out a hero even if it strayed from the source material. The villains you mentioned, all went out like pros. Joker gets a nice free fall, Doc Ock sacrifices himself, and Green Goblin takes a glider to the balls (I guess thats enough to kill any man).

If the movie is great, then cool, but if Cyke dies the way he does in the novels, its not really gonna ruin the movie, but it would be one of those things I feel would kinda bring the movie down a notch.

 

[The Kid]

YESH, I agree with all that.

honk. honk.