The Dark Knight Known similarities between TDK and Batman '89

[TH3D4RKKN1GH7]

Its completely possible for the reason you just listed, TDK WILL BE BETTER. Just because it uses the same character doesn't make them the same either. The fact that TDK story is not only better written but seemingly better told also makes a difference. The fact that Ledger has given an incredible performance as Joker, and that Harvey Dent is actually a fully fleshed out character is why people might LOVE TDK and still HATE B89. Not to mention the whole cinematography and IMAX thing.

 

[The Batman]

Well I know I'm correct on this subject. Romero's Joker was 100% used as an model for Jack's joker. If you think not, then your fooling yourself.

If you want to go with the logic that Jack & Cesar are not twins, then they can't be exactly the same, I'll give you that.

Other than that, they are one the same.

Thank god people go by facts and not arrogance...


Joker clearly mirrors the violent 70's/80's version of the character, as the killing joke, DKR, and in some ways the Engleheart/rogers run of Batman influeneced the first Burton film. Jacks joker was a vain narcacist who saw killing as an art form he could use to show off...

how is that based from romero's joker, who's pretty much the harmless prankster of the 50's/60's Batman? Lemme guess, because they both shared traits that the JOKER IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE, you just assumed jack based his perfomance on caesar? Ha....ha....

If anything, burton tried to make his villains a 180 from the villains in the tv show. I'm not even going to touch on how penguin and catwoman are different because i think you know you're wrong on that matter

 

[Ibn]

Its completely possible for the reason you just listed, TDK WILL BE BETTER. Just because it uses the same character doesn't make them the same either. The fact that TDK story is not only better written but seemingly better told also makes a difference. The fact that Ledger has given an incredible performance as Joker, and that Harvey Dent is actually a fully fleshed out character is why people might LOVE TDK and still HATE B89. Not to mention the whole cinematography and IMAX thing.

You've seen the movie then? I don't think you have. I don't think ANY of the people that "LOVE" TDK have actually seen the movie. This is the most disgusting part. There is an incessant need to bash the Burton movies before the release of the Nolan flicks in order to give them more steam. It's sickening b/c they obviously don't need it. And as for all these people who "HATE" B89, where the **** were they when people were ****ting on Batman after the Schumacer movies? They were talking **** to the Spiderman fans, about how Jack and Michael set the standard. And now suddenly everythings changed. People like you make it REALLY difficult to cheer for Nolan and Co. There are things that I absolutely loathe about TDK so far, but I'm not so much on Burtons dick that I'm not gonna do my best to look past them and hope for the best. I can't wait to see this movie. And I can't wait to see it again, and again, Just like how people did in 89 helping Batman make cinema history. Which is wierd since there is so much hate for the film.

 

[Bat-Mite]

You've seen the movie then? I don't think you have. I don't think ANY of the people that "LOVE" TDK have actually seen the movie. This is the most disgusting part. There is an incessant need to bash the Burton movies before the release of the Nolan flicks in order to give them more steam. It's sickening b/c they obviously don't need it.

While I agree with you to an extent, it's a two way street. Those who prefer Burton's films or are overzealous to defend them have been exaggerating the flaws of Batman Begins, nitpicking like crazy, and have declared that TDK will never live up to what Batman '89 did. And just like those that 'love' TDK, they haven't even seen the film yet to justify making such statements.

And as for all these people who "HATE" B89, where the **** were they when people were ****ting on Batman after the Schumacer movies? They were talking **** to the Spiderman fans, about how Jack and Michael set the standard. And now suddenly everythings changed.

I do hope you realize that there are those who have never liked Batman '89 and have never declared that it set any standard. Two wrongs don't make a right, and just because the person you're responding to made all sorta of assumptions doesn't mean you have to make them as well, while piling blanket statements on top of them.

People like you make it REALLY difficult to cheer for Nolan and Co. There are things that I absolutely loathe about TDK so far, but I'm not so much on Burtons dick that I'm not gonna do my best to look past them and hope for the best. I can't wait to see this movie. And I can't wait to see it again, and again, Just like how people did in 89 helping Batman make cinema history. Which is wierd since there is so much hate for the film.

The way I see it, there are a-holes on both sides that make it hard to enjoy either film series. I agree with you, though. It's such a shame that the two directors can respect each other's films, but the fans of those directors have to be at each other's throats over which director "did it better". It is a shame that people can't handle maturity on these boards anymore. Sure, not everyone's going to have the same tastes, but that doesn't mean there has to be this huge rivalry going on. It's not like we're cheering opposing teams at the superbowl here.

 

[Marx]

The Burton movies are classics (at least in my mind.) I'm sure the Nolan movies will stand their ground as well...but only time will tell. I just wish people would stop the pointless bickering and blowing smoke and respect each director's take on the franchise. What worked in 1989 doesn't necessarily work in 2008. The point remains that if it weren't for the previous movies (yes, even B&R) we wouldn't be where we are today.

So everyone just needs to chill out and enjoy them! (I gurantee once everyone is done playing with the "shiny new toy" they will still be able to respect and appreciate the old toy for laying the groundwork for years to come.)

 

[TH3D4RKKN1GH7]

You've seen the movie then? I don't think you have. I don't think ANY of the people that "LOVE" TDK have actually seen the movie. This is the most disgusting part. There is an incessant need to bash the Burton movies before the release of the Nolan flicks in order to give them more steam. It's sickening b/c they obviously don't need it. And as for all these people who "HATE" B89, where the **** were they when people were ****ting on Batman after the Schumacer movies? They were talking **** to the Spiderman fans, about how Jack and Michael set the standard. And now suddenly everythings changed. People like you make it REALLY difficult to cheer for Nolan and Co. There are things that I absolutely loathe about TDK so far, but I'm not so much on Burtons dick that I'm not gonna do my best to look past them and hope for the best. I can't wait to see this movie. And I can't wait to see it again, and again, Just like how people did in 89 helping Batman make cinema history. Which is wierd since there is so much hate for the film.

First off when did I say I loved the Dark Knight or said that anyone loved the Dark Knight? I'm pretty sure I stuck the word MIGHT in front of it. Also the post was mainly to act as a devil's advocate kind of thing. I never talked **** to any Spidey fans and to assume everyone is a flip flopping fanboy is a bit silly don't ya think.

 

[craigaat]

I didn't realise B89 was so hated, I've just grown to dislike it.

 

[Caladbolg]

Another similarity: A mobster to Joker: "Youre Crazy"

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

The Joker.

There, that's it. That's the kicker.

 

[BatFitz]

This is funny *****

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSkSDNl1w4E

hahaha

"Do you remember that?"
"NO!"

 

[jtfaria]

Wow. I dreaded coming into this thread, half expecting **** like "Can't we go five minutes without comparing the two" and other *****fits. But it's been completely civil. Therefore, I'm proud to lend my two cents.

1. Both have Bats, Joker, and Harvey.

2. Both have stand off confrontations in the street where it's basically just, Joker and Batman.

3. Joker's takes control of the mob.

4. Joker ****s with Bruce's love interest indirectly.

5. Hell, both films have an Eckhart involved.

There's alot of other similarities just shots wise in that video. It didn't even dawn on me that the shot of bats on the roof was damn near the same as in 89. Also the clip with the batmobiles doing the exact same thing in the exact same way in the shot was crazy. The parallels are definitely there.

Some great additions (especially the clever Eckhart one). Look, this exercise isn't about making value judgements, at least not from my POV. It's merely about drawing parallels between the two films in which Joker appears.

Having now seen the entire film (I went to the Nyack preview), I can add a few more comparisons (spoilers!):

1) Both films, near the end, depict Joker plunging from a building. In both films, Batman is the reason for his fall, and in both cases, this is how Joker is finally subdued.

2) In both films, Joker takes over a TV broadcast to send the public a message.

3) In Burton's film, Batman tells Joker 'you made me'. In TDK, Joker tells Batman 'I need you.'

4) Both films involve a swing in public opinion toward the Batman. In Burton's film, it goes from fear and suspicion to trust and acceptance. In TDK, it goes from something resembling trust and acceptance to fear and suspicion.

5) Attitude towards money plays a role: Burton's Joker gives money away. Nolan's Joker burns it.

6) Gordon's life is explicitly threatened in both films. RELATED: Corrupt cops place lives in danger in both films.

7) A major character's face is hideously transformed in both films. In both cases, Batman is involved (though not really at fault).

8) Early on in both films, Batman is filmed in an unusual way - from above. In both cases, he witnesses the escape of criminals below him, and moves down to apprehend them. (This happens only twice in the Batman movies, and these are the two instances.)

9) In TDK, the Batmobile pursues a Joker-painted vehicle. In Burton's film, I believe it's a Joker-painted vehicle chasing Batman.

This one is subjective: I could swear that, in one or two statements - Ledger sounds EXACTLY like Nicholson. Now, this Joker modulates his delivery all over the map, and has a wild variety of speaking styles. Since I do not (yet) have a TDK DVD, I can't pull a clip for comparison. When you see the film, just listen carefully and see if you can spot this. I think it was 3/4 of the way through the film when I noticed.

I'm sure there are more such parallels, coincidences and contrasts that astute fans will pick up on.

 

[Keymaker]

My perfect Bat-film would be a mix of Burton and Nolan. Burton's visuals with Nolan's rich character stuff. I kinda do miss the old unrealistic Gotham...but I totally dig the thought-provoking ideas of today's Batman t:

 

[Mr. E]

1) Both films, near the end, depict Joker plunging from a building. In both films, Batman is the reason for his fall, and in both cases, this is how Joker is finally subdued.

2) In both films, Joker takes over a TV broadcast to send the public a message.

3) In Burton's film, Batman tells Joker 'you made me'. In TDK, Joker tells Batman 'I need you.'

4) Both films involve a swing in public opinion toward the Batman. In Burton's film, it goes from fear and suspicion to trust and acceptance. In TDK, it goes from something resembling trust and acceptance to fear and suspicion.

5) Attitude towards money plays a role: Burton's Joker gives money away. Nolan's Joker burns it.

6) Gordon's life is explicitly threatened in both films. RELATED: Corrupt cops place lives in danger in both films.

7) A major character's face is hideously transformed in both films. In both cases, Batman is involved (though not really at fault).

8) Early on in both films, Batman is filmed in an unusual way - from above. In both cases, he witnesses the escape of criminals below him, and moves down to apprehend them. (This happens only twice in the Batman movies, and these are the two instances.)

9) In TDK, the Batmobile pursues a Joker-painted vehicle. In Burton's film, I believe it's a Joker-painted vehicle chasing Batman.

10.) Batman's mask/cowl is almost removed by a Joker goon in both films. In Batman it's too dark to see Wayne's features and in the Dark Knight it is tamper proof.

11.) Mob bosses against the Joker. The Joker goes from being a nobody at the bottom of the criminal food chain to the top through the mob.

12.) The Joker takes the lives of mob bosses that doubt or threaten him. In Batman it's Antwon (Set on fire) and in the Dark Knight it's Gambol's guard (the impressive magic trick).

13.) 1989 Joker kills with a pen, 2008 Joker kills with a pencil.

14.) Taunting Batman when their plans are foiled in the middle of Gotham. "Come on you grusome son of a *****, come to me." / "Come on hit me!"

15.) Both Jokers experience the wrath of Batmans grappel cord around their heel/leg.

16.) Batman, The Joker and Harvey Dent in 1989. Batman, The Joker and Harvey Dent again in 2008.

17.) Batman wears body armor. Not only can it be assumed it is stated.

18.) Batman falls from great lengths and survives.

19.) Falls to catch the damsel in distress.

20.) Joker appearing on Wayne's computer, repeated and paused declaring a challenge.

21.)

22.) Though it's unknown whether or not Batman scars The Joker with his retractable blades in the Dark Knight, it is similar that Batman's gauntlets help subdue the Joker with an object (be it a bullet or a blade) and it hits the villians cheeks.

 

[TheDarkJoker]

It's ironic that '89 Joker falls off a building and get killed. Same scene in TDK, but this time, Batman saves him.

 

[terry78]

You don't have to tear one thing down to build another up. That's the issue that a lot of people are having with some fans of TDK. It's not necessary to say the former flick was godawful and sucks in comparison.

 

[plod]

If you wanted similarities between Begins and B'89 I would agree.

1) Love interest knows Batman's secret identity
2) Love interest needs to be saved from mad man which involves a car chase through the streets of Gotham.
3) Love interest is brought back to Batcave and given something Wayne needs to give to other people, ie antidote or info about said madman's poison.
4) Love interest wakes up sedated in her apartment with said info next to her.
5) Madman, both films, have a plan that involves the mass gassing of the poor long suffering people of Gotham.
6) Love interest happens to be at ground zero, of all places, during the attack.
7) Love interest takes part in the fighting to a limited extent, Rachel tazered Crane. Vikki distracts the Joker while Keaton gets close.

 

[plod]

You don't have to tear one thing down to build another up. That's the issue that a lot of people are having with some fans of TDK. It's not necessary to say the former flick was godawful and sucks in comparison.

What about Batman and Robin? That's asking for a kicking, Schwarzenegger as Mr Freeze; "You're not putting me in the cooler."

 

[Superhobo]

Both are phenomenal films, and both have their minor faults, a lot of which are superficial, and cosmetic in regards to everything else - although, Batman's aren't as readily obvious as TDK's, it did start the horrendous rubber suit trend.

 

[jtfaria]

10.) Batman's mask/cowl is almost removed by a Joker goon in both films. In Batman it's too dark to see Wayne's features and in the Dark Knight it is tamper proof.

11.) Mob bosses against the Joker. The Joker goes from being a nobody at the bottom of the criminal food chain to the top through the mob.

12.) The Joker takes the lives of mob bosses that doubt or threaten him. In Batman it's Antwon (Set on fire) and in the Dark Knight it's Gambol's guard (the impressive magic trick).

13.) 1989 Joker kills with a pen, 2008 Joker kills with a pencil.

14.) Taunting Batman when their plans are foiled in the middle of Gotham. "Come on you grusome son of a *****, come to me." / "Come on hit me!"

15.) Both Jokers experience the wrath of Batmans grappel cord around their heel/leg.

16.) Batman, The Joker and Harvey Dent in 1989. Batman, The Joker and Harvey Dent again in 2008.

17.) Batman wears body armor. Not only can it be assumed it is stated.

18.) Batman falls from great lengths and survives.

19.) Falls to catch the damsel in distress.

20.) Joker appearing on Wayne's computer, repeated and paused declaring a challenge.

21.)

22.) Though it's unknown whether or not Batman scars The Joker with his retractable blades in the Dark Knight, it is similar that Batman's gauntlets help subdue the Joker with an object (be it a bullet or a blade) and it hits the villians cheeks.

Some very good observations, although I don't understand Point 21. What am I missing?

I suppose it could be said, also, that in both films a reporter makes an attempt to 'expose' The Batman.

 

[jtfaria]

If you wanted similarities between Begins and B'89 I would agree.

1) Love interest knows Batman's secret identity
2) Love interest needs to be saved from mad man which involves a car chase through the streets of Gotham.
3) Love interest is brought back to Batcave and given something Wayne needs to give to other people, ie antidote or info about said madman's poison.
4) Love interest wakes up sedated in her apartment with said info next to her.
5) Madman, both films, have a plan that involves the mass gassing of the poor long suffering people of Gotham.
6) Love interest happens to be at ground zero, of all places, during the attack.
7) Love interest takes part in the fighting to a limited extent, Rachel tazered Crane. Vikki distracts the Joker while Keaton gets close.

Yup, can't argue with these. So what do you think - a lot of plot recycling (consciously or unconsciously) going on?

 

[Mr. E]

21? The way they display their arsenal and the particular gear also.

 

[FireFlys Enigma]

And here we...GO!