The Dark Knight Let's debate various aspects of TDK

[The Guard]

I don't remember anyone laughing with Jack's Joker. But then, I was like seven...

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I don't remember anyone laughing with Jack's Joker. But then, I was like seven...

My God! The Guard has an avatar!?!?!

Hey, man. Good to see ya.

I was 12 when Batman '89 came out. I laughed my ass off at Joker's one-liners. They were hilarious. I still laugh. "Antoine got a little hot under the collar..." He torches Brutali and he says that and I laugh. Am I a bad person? Maybe. But I think it's funny.

 

[Dirt Like Me]

I don't remember anyone laughing with Jack's Joker. But then, I was like seven...

I remember "This town needs an enema" getting a laugh, only because I had to ask my Dad what an enema was. (I was nine).

 

[Crook]

It's less about laughing with him, and more of Jack's Joker just being so damn likeable and charming.

 

[Dirt Like Me]

Moving back onto a topic:

And the trailer for TDK seems to suggest that we may not be laughing with Heath's Joker so much. Which should be interesting.

See, I think that laughing with the Joker (and feeling bad about for yourself doing so) is one of the great things about the character. If he's just a homicidal psycho, he's not the Joker.

That said, I think that in TDK we'll still laugh with him, but it'll be different kinds of laughs. For example, his physical reaction to the bazooka--it's not zany comedy like Jack did, but it's still funny in its own right.

I think the differences between the two will come out at the extreme end of the spectrum. Pretty much everything Jack did was laughable. I think--based on the "Why so serious?" part of the trailer (where he looks possessed)--that Heath's Joker will go beyond those limits. It'll be interesting to see.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I remember "This town needs an enema" getting a laugh, only because I had to ask my Dad what an enema was. (I was nine).

See, I still love that bit. It's awesome. For years I kept one of those party things in the top drawer of my dresser and every once in a while I'd find it and pull it out and go "This town needs an enema!" FA-WOOT!! FA-WOOOT!!!

My Mom laughed at Joker's lines, too. My Dad was disgusted by the whole thing but Mom and I couldn't stop laughing.

"NEW AND IMPROVED JOKER PRODUCTS! With a new secret ingredient! Smyleeeeexxxxxxx.... That milky skin, those ruby lips... and hair color so natural, only your undertaker knows for sure. I know what you're thinking! Where can I get these fine new products? Well that's the gag! Chances are, you bought 'em already!"

Awesome.

It's less about laughing with him, and more of Jack's Joker just being so damn likeable and charming.

Of course! It's Jack! What do you expect?

 

[Figs]

My Mom laughed at Joker's lines, too. My Dad was disgusted by the whole thing but Mom and I couldn't stop laughing.

Is your dad just a hardass or does he have very high morals?

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Moving back onto a topic:



See, I think that laughing with the Joker (and feeling bad about for yourself doing so) is one of the great things about the character. If he's just a homicidal psycho, he's not the Joker.

That last sentence is absolutely true. But I think if Joker is amused by things that aren't funny, it still works.

That said, I think that in TDK we'll still laugh with him, but it'll be different kinds of laughs. For example, his physical reaction to the bazooka--it's not zany comedy like Jack did, but it's still funny in its own right.

This is a fair point. And if he really wears a pink Nurse's uniform when he blows up the hospital, that'll be a scream. But it is a different kind of comedy from what Jack did.

I think the differences between the two will come out at the extreme end of the spectrum. Pretty much everything Jack did was laughable. I think--based on the "Why so serious?" part of the trailer (where he looks possessed)--that Heath's Joker will go beyond those limits. It'll be interesting to see.

Oh, Jack was scary too. I mean I was genuinely afraid for Vicki in the Museum scene. And when Alicia took off her mask, I was genuinely horrified at what Joker had done to her. By the end of the movie where he's just gassing people for... I don't even know why, it really didn't make sense, but it was a great scene... at this point you have the sense that he's spiraling down the drain, as it were.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Is your dad just a hardass or does he have very high morals?

My Dad's a hardass.

But also, I think he was totally unprepared for a dark Batman film at the time. He still had Adam West on the brain and did not associate "dark" or "gritty" with Batman. He was as turned off by Keaton's Batman as he was by Jack's Joker. And my Dad LIKES Jack Nicholson. He just didn't like the movie, it put him in a bad mood.

Although to be fair he was in a bad mood that day to begin with, as I recall.

 

[StylishHokie21]

Just figured I'd weigh in on the Jack vs. Heath thing. To me it's not even a question of which one is better. I mean it's pointless to argue it. Heath isn't playing Joker the same way that Jack did. It's two entirely different performances, and the character is written differently from what I can tell.

As I said before filming even began, you can't out-Jack Jack, so there's no reason for them to try and put that Joker onscreen. But there've been so many different versions of Joker in the comics over the years that there's no reason to be afraid of doing something different with him here. Heath's Joker looks less polished than Jack's, less like a gentleman or a former mobster. Jack's Joker was a dapper fellow, obsessed with his appearance, and the ruination of his looks was one of the things that made him scar beautiful girls and so on.

Heath's Joker seems different, and to me that's a good thing - not because there was anything wrong with Jack's Joker but because it's necessary for this film to present the character in a different way.

I too think it's odd that people say Jack's Joker wasn't evil enough or whatever, he did terrible, terrible things. I sometimes think that what they're responding to is the fact that the audience laughed with Jack's Joker, no matter what horrid thing he was doing. And the trailer for TDK seems to suggest that we may not be laughing with Heath's Joker so much. Which should be interesting.

I agree. Two completely different takes.

I never got to watch Batman 89 in theaters because I was 3 at the time, but now I would definitely do it if it ever got re-released or something. When I was younger, I was scared of Nicholson's Joker. The first scene where he first sees himself as the Joker and starts laughing sent chills down my spine. As I got older, I just laughed along with him. I just enjoyed the way he would laugh his ass off while frying the mobster or scaring Vicki.

With Heath, it will definitely be nice to see a new take on The Joker. He obviously had great respect for Jack's Joker and didn't want to mimic his performance. I never really cared for Ledger as an actor, but after watching some more of his movies, I can see why they chose him to play the Joker.

 

[Prefix]

The whole "Jack Nicholson sucks" movement is fanboyism at its worst.

 

[Eggyman]

The whole "Jack Nicholson sucks" movement is fanboyism at its worst.

Completely! It's an embarrassing form of debating where the respective posters can't bring anything positive to the table, so they have nothing left to do except try to tarnish the competition.

 

[Mee]

The whole "Jack Nicholson sucks" movement is fanboyism at its worst.

Movement? You make it sound like people are hating on him just to build up Ledger.



Which some people might be....but some people, like me, just really didn't like his Joker. Before I even knew there was a TDK, or a Batman Begins. It's no movement, it's opinion.

 

[Eggyman]

Movement? You make it sound like people are hating on him just to build up Ledger.



Which some people might be....but some people, like me, just really didn't like his Joker. Before I even knew there was a TDK, or a Batman Begins. It's no movement, it's opinion.

I agree! Generalising can be a pain in the arse It's true that some people genuinly just don't like Jack-Joker . . . and that is well within their rights

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

My God! The Guard has an avatar!?!?!

Hey, man. Good to see ya.

I was 12 when Batman '89 came out. I laughed my ass off at Joker's one-liners. They were hilarious. I still laugh. "Antoine got a little hot under the collar..." He torches Brutali and he says that and I laugh. Am I a bad person? Maybe. But I think it's funny.

No dont feel bad, I always laugh at that part, one of my fav Joker moments in the film.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Ill always like Jacks Joker equally to Heath's (though I havent seen the full performance yet) its just the value of seeing two completly different interpretations of the character done well.

 

[Prefix]

Movement? You make it sound like people are hating on him just to build up Ledger.

Well, that's because a lot of people are

 

[gwynplaine]

Movement? You make it sound like people are hating on him just to build up Ledger.



Which some people might be....but some people, like me, just really didn't like his Joker. Before I even knew there was a TDK, or a Batman Begins. It's no movement, it's opinion.

Very good point. My feelings exactly.

 

[Bat-Mite]

Movement? You make it sound like people are hating on him just to build up Ledger.



Which some people might be....but some people, like me, just really didn't like his Joker. Before I even knew there was a TDK, or a Batman Begins. It's no movement, it's opinion.

Great point. I used to hate Jack's take on the character, but then I got the SE DVD of Batman '89, which was a lot cleaner that past versions I've seen, and being able to see Jack's facial expressions made all the difference. So now I actually kind of like his take on the character. But I can still see where the people that don't like it are coming from. And I can't stand people who say that the role should be universally loved simply because Jack Nicholson played the role. You know the type: "He's Jack ****ing Nicholson! How could you NOT like his Joker!?"

I've seen Jack do some performances that were outstanding, and some that I thought were just okay. But I don't believe any actor should be beyond criticism simply because of the name they've made for themselves over the years. It's a poor argument as to why people should like Jack's Joker, but it's also one that I see all the time.

 

[guitarkhero311]

The whole "Jack Nicholson sucks" movement is fanboyism at its worst.

The whole "Jack Nicholson is the greatest Joker ever" movement is ******ation at its worst. Open up your minds to a change. Jack was great with what he did, Heath will be too.

 

[Joker'sHenchman]

The whole "Jack Nicholson is the greatest Joker ever" movement is ******ation at its worst. Open up your minds to a change. Jack was great with what he did, Heath will be too.

Now I don't personally believe this, but I would like to present the other side of the argument. What if Heath's performance does suck? It's a complete let down and we barely like it. What if what we've seen in the trailers are deceptive of the real performance? Wouldn't be the first time a movie is misrepresented by its trailers...

 

[StylishHokie21]

Now I don't personally believe this, but I would like to present the other side of the argument. What if Heath's performance does suck? It's a complete let down and we barely like it. What if what we've seen in the trailers are deceptive of the real performance? Wouldn't be the first time a movie is misrepresented by its trailers...

Good point.

 

[Shoemeister]

Now I don't personally believe this, but I would like to present the other side of the argument. What if Heath's performance does suck? It's a complete let down and we barely like it. What if what we've seen in the trailers are deceptive of the real performance? Wouldn't be the first time a movie is misrepresented by its trailers...

Good point.

Gentlemen... let's broaden our minds.

 

[The Guard]

Now I don't personally believe this, but I would like to present the other side of the argument. What if Heath's performance does suck? It's a complete let down and we barely like it. What if what we've seen in the trailers are deceptive of the real performance? Wouldn't be the first time a movie is misrepresented by its trailers...

Based on what we've seen in the trailer, all we can really say about his performance is that he's yelling some of his lines and speaking in a weird voice. It's an actor being over the top and creepy. I don't count that as a brilliant performance just yet, as that's something you can find in almost any horror film. Now, if The Joker has some "quiet moments", and I'm not talking about "You've changed things...forever", that could change things.

 

[Crook]

Based on what we've seen in the trailer, all we can really say about his performance is that he's yelling some of his lines and speaking in a weird voice.

Where was he yelling? And how is it a weird voice?

It's an actor being over the top and creepy.

Kinda like how Joker should be played?

I don't count that as a brilliant performance just yet, as that's something you can find in almost any horror film.

Exaggerate it a bit more, I don't think it was enough.