Logan Logan - news & discussion - Part 3

[GuestStar2004]

Hopefully before X-Men: Supernova see the light the day.

No chance.

At this point X-Men: Supernova, New mutants and Deadpool 2 are probably a certainty.

 

[henzINNIT]

I am honestly confused that people thought there was a chance of the happy future of Days of Future Past being a permanent happy ending. These are mutants we are talking about for crying out loud. They never ever really get a break. That is kinda their thing. Heck even Bryan originally wanted to make to make the 'Happy Future' more trippy with effects so that people realized it wasn't a permanent thing.

It's 2 things really:

In-universe, this idea causes problems of redundancy. We have just gone through an entire film dedicated to preventing a devastating future. This film appears to undermine all that effort and crush any hope to be found in films preceding this event (which is all of them, including all the known films ahead of us).

Outside of the story itself, you also have 17 years of passionate fans who might not particularly like to see such a sour end to their favourite characters. The future coda in DOFP was a cathartic release for so many who felt that these characters were underserved over the years. There were some who hoped it signaled a return, and some who considered it a nice closure. Both will have been stripped away by this film.

Even though Im beyond hyped for this, I now worry that this movie's story will kinda kill the buzz upon rewatches of Dofp or any of the past films for that matter. I feel like there has to be more to it and theyre not "Terminator 3" -ing DoFP.

Part of me feels like this should have been set in the far future where Logan naturally outlives his Xmen bretheren and hea torally alone. I think that would've added a lot of weight to the fact that this guy's "gift" is a curse because he is destined to be alone since he cannot die and ages very slowly.

I like that actually. You couldn't have Stewart though, which is probably the sole reason this isn't set further forward in time.

Taking your idea further, how about you jump 70 years ahead and replace Xavier with an aged Rogue. She could fulfill a similar role, only she herself was at one point lost and taken in by Logan. Could be cool.

... or terrible. I dunno.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I like that actually. You couldn't have Stewart though, which is probably the sole reason this isn't set further forward in time.

Taking your idea further, how about you jump 70 years ahead and replace Xavier with an aged Rogue. She could fulfill a similar role, only she herself was at one point lost and taken in by Logan. Could be cool.

... or terrible. I dunno.

The only reason Xavier was added is because they wanted to explore the whole Father figure thing, so Xavier is logans father figure and wolverine is X23s father figure.

Rogue in that role wouldn't have been the same.

 

[LoganPool]

Even though Im beyond hyped for this, I now worry that this movie's story will kinda kill the buzz upon rewatches of Dofp or any of the past films for that matter. I feel like there has to be more to it and theyre not "Terminator 3" -ing DoFP.

Part of me feels like this should have been set in the far future where Logan naturally outlives his Xmen bretheren and hea torally alone. I think that would've added a lot of weight to the fact that this guy's "gift" is a curse because he is destined to be alone since he cannot die and ages very slowly.

What I'm about to say may sound crazy, but bear with me...

Back when Jurassic World first came out, there was a theory that came out of left field, where Chris Pratts character is the little boy from Jurassic Park that Alan terrifies with the raptor claw, all grown up. (It actually makes sense, IMO) When Colin Trevorrow was asked about it, he basically said maybe he is, maybe he isn't. It's up to the viewer to decide.

This brings me to Logan...

I personally use the "up to the viewer" train of thought for a lot of movies. Logan will be no exception. I hate that Mangold set this movie in 2029. Like Kguillou said above "...this should've been set in the far future..." I, therefore, WILL have it set in the far future.... at least 30 years after DOFP. Mind over matter type of thing. It works for me. May not work for everybody. And you may think I'm f***ing crazy for even thinking this way. Whatever. Just my two cents.

 

[X-Maniac]

I am honestly confused that people thought there was a chance of the happy future of Days of Future Past being a permanent happy ending. These are mutants we are talking about for crying out loud. They never ever really get a break. That is kinda their thing. Heck even Bryan originally wanted to make to make the 'Happy Future' more trippy with effects so that people realized it wasn't a permanent thing.

The whole point of DoFP was changing a terrible future. That's why Wolverine went into the past!

So of course it had to show the effects of the time travel and altering history. Hence the 'happy future' to show that the plan had worked.

The basic concept of the Logan movie is problematic.

It's set beyond the happy future, it undermines that happy future and it leaves X-23 stuck in 2029. You can't really have an 11-year-old in X-Force so Cable would need to recruit her about 10 years beyond the Logan time setting, meaning a different actress would be needed anyway (that's assuming they want X-23 in X-Force). So undermining the point of having Dafne Keen as a standout star in Logan because it's a one-and-done deal.

Don't the filmmakers ever think through the ramifications of their decisions?

It seems not. That's how we ended up with Wolverine losing his adamantium claws in The Wolverine and then having them back in DoFP. That hurriedly put together post-credits scene in The Wolverine was a hasty attempt to try to stitch together this mess.

And it is a mess. No one ever considers anything aside from the thing right in front of their eyes. They don't look further ahead, they don't look to the side (at other films being planned/made), they don't even consider this to be a franchise, they don't really care.

 

[Roose Bolton]

 

[BlueLanternKal]

I don't give a **** honestly.

During the Renaissance the Pope didn't go to Michael Angelo and say, "Bruh your painting doesn't look like it fits with Da Vinci's. Get that the **** out of here."

I like the blank canvas approach that Fox has been taking lately. The FOX-Men universe was never conceived as a serialized "cinematic universe" even though most of it tries to play out that way. If Logan is a great stand alone then I dont give two ****s about where it fits in the continuity. Just keep making great films based on the X-Men.

 

[JEM]

Why Cable would come back in time if the future was happy ? Like Xavier said, future isn't truly set and you need a reason for Cable to be in Deadpool 2.
Jesus, it 's the X-Men, mutants have always a dark future in source material ( comics, cartoon).
Happy future make character like Cable, Bishop and others pointless. DOFP ending is just to show Logan stopped the Sentinels menace. Nothing more, nothing less.

I think (hope) Logan show us the first step of the dark future and Deadpool 2, the next step with Cable backstory. IMO, i don't think we will see Apocalypse but Sinister could be a good option.

Between:

- XA post credit scene
- Ajax plan
- Dr. Zander Rice motivation
- Cable origin
- Logan future

I really think they should make Sinister the next vilain behind all the thing. It 's make perfect sense.

Beside, X23 ages slowly like Wolverine so Cable don't need to travel back in Logan timeline. She could look like 30 years old in 2100 if they want.
It would be cool if she fights with Cable in the dark future.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Talking exclusively to Digital Spy Hugh Jackman revealed that he and director James Mangold don't even see the film existing in quite the same world as the other movies.

"When you see the full movie you'll understand," he told us. "Not only is it different in terms of timeline and tone, it's a slightly different universe. It's actually a different paradigm and that will become clear."

"I said this was my last one and they said make the movie you want to make," he explained.

"And so Jim [Mangold] and I had this blank canvas and we wanted to make something really different. Definitely tonally different, I kept thinking The Wrestler, Unforgiven.

"He was thinking Unforgiven as well and The Gauntlet and these other movies which just seemed to really match his character. Early on we had the idea for the title not having anything to do with Wolverine in it but just being about the man. And what the collateral damage of being Wolverine your entire life would be."

"It's a stand alone movie in many ways." He explained. "It's not really beholden to time lines and story lines in the other movies. Obviously Patrick Stewart was in there so we have some crossover but it feels very different and very fresh.

"[Following the timelines] becomes a chess game that you try to serve, which actually doesn't help to tell a story and it's sort of been a bit all over the place. I'm not critical of it – X-Men was the first movie really in comic book, no one thought there'd be another and there were different directors different off shoots."

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/wo...an-says-logan-different-universe-x-men-films/

 

[LoganPool]

Going slightly off topic (timeline talk), I was watching a few reaction video's, and one of them mentioned the possibility of Xavier not really existing... just being a figment of Logan's imagination. They justified it by noticing that in both trailers, Logan is the only one shown interacting with Charles. I, personally, don't believe it's true, but it kinda blew my mind. It would definitely create a whole new dynamic for this movie.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Going slightly off topic (timeline talk), I was watching a few reaction video's, and one of them mentioned the possibility of Xavier not really existing... just being a figment of Logan's imagination. They justified it by noticing that in both trailers, Logan is the only one shown interacting with Charles. I, personally, don't believe it's true, but it kinda blew my mind. It would definitely create a whole new dynamic for this movie.

I doubt it somehow.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Talking exclusively to Digital Spy Hugh Jackman revealed that he and director James Mangold don't even see the film existing in quite the same world as the other movies.

Then why bother with this film.this makes entire film waste of time.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Then why bother with this film.this makes entire film waste of time.

Yeah, who would be interested in a story about an aging Wolverine set in an alternate, darker universe not connected to the main time line?

Oh....wait...that was the idea behind one of the most popular Wolverine comic arcs in the last ten years wasn't it?

 

[marvelrobbins]

I never read old man logan and never was wild on idea of it as film.

this makes logan ilrelvent to rest of film films in series.it makes the post credit scene in apocalypse be like what the hell was that for since it will have nothing to do with X-23.

Deadpool 3 or X-force film could introduce a in contunity version of X-23

At least i think nowpeople can give up having any cameos by anyone else from other films now.

 

[idiot09]

I don't give a **** honestly.

During the Renaissance the Pope didn't go to Michael Angelo and say, "Bruh your painting doesn't look like it fits with Da Vinci's. Get that the **** out of here."

I like the blank canvas approach that Fox has been taking lately. The FOX-Men universe was never conceived as a serialized "cinematic universe" even though most of it tries to play out that way. If Logan is a great stand alone then I dont give two ****s about where it fits in the continuity. Just keep making great films based on the X-Men.

Bingo. Mangold has expilicity said he wanted to make Logan in a future setting as that would mean he can play fast and loose with the continuity stuff. I often feel the continuity stuff, and the episodic nature of a connected universe, really restricts the creative side and scope of a story.

Its refreshing to see Logan break free of those shackles. I just want a great movie. DOFP was a great movie. I dont care how they are connected.

 

[idiot09]

"And so Jim [Mangold] and I had this blank canvas and we wanted to make something really different. Definitely tonally different, I kept thinking The Wrestler, Unforgiven.

"He was thinking Unforgiven as well and The Gauntlet and these other movies which just seemed to really match his character. Early on we had the idea for the title not having anything to do with Wolverine in it but just being about the man. And what the collateral damage of being Wolverine your entire life would be."

"It's a stand alone movie in many ways." He explained. "It's not really beholden to time lines and story lines in the other movies. Obviously Patrick Stewart was in there so we have some crossover but it feels very different and very fresh.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Then why bother with this film.this makes entire film waste of time.

Some of the greatest stories ever told within comics have been out of continuity elseworld tales...the fact that they don't fit in with the "main" continuity does not make them wastes of time.

 

[kguillou]

Talking exclusively to Digital Spy Hugh Jackman revealed that he and director James Mangold don't even see the film existing in quite the same world as the other movies.

This actually makes me very relieved. I am completely all for a completely standalone, separate, alternate universe tale. I'm a HUGE fan of Old Man Logan and that is essentially a "What If?" story. Making this a "What if?" is the best way to go instead of the definitive epilogue to Bryan Singer's X-Men.

@Marvelrobbins, I hear what you're saying, bro, but I think the MCU films...and Hollywood franchise films in general have started to condition us to always be thinking about "the bigger picture" instead of just enjoying and appreciating standalone stories. I think Logan may be a return back to an old style of films that are one and done and not building up to anything or tethered to anything.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Then why bother with this film.this makes entire film waste of time.

The idea that X-Men is an actual cinematic universe was just lip service and you & guest star (he just eats up wat Fox tell him so he's moved on to accepting it now) were just dancing to Kinberg's fife

 

[Infinity9999x]

I never read old man logan and never was wild on idea of it as film.

this makes logan ilrelvent to rest of film films in series.it makes the post credit scene in apocalypse be like what the hell was that for since it will have nothing to do with X-23.

Deadpool 3 or X-force film could introduce a in contunity version of X-23

At least i think nowpeople can give up having any cameos by anyone else from other films now.

And it's a waste of time...how exactly? The comics change continuity all the time, with authors picking and choosing what to acknowledge and what not to.

At the end of the day, they just want to tell a good story. That's all that matters, and it's all that should matter. The x films have a loopy time line anyway, and noboby cares as long as the story is good.

Point being, the success of Old Man Logan. You may not have read it, but it doesn't change the fact that it's one of the most popular Wolverine stories ever written. And as others have said, many elseworlds stories end up being hugely popular. There's a little book called The Dark Knight Returns that's fairly well known, and not connected to the main Batman continuity. You've probably heard of it. The Killing Joke was meant to be out of continuity and was so popular other authors decided to make it cannon. Ultimate Spider-Man was popular enough that it's influenced every incarnation of Spiderman on film (both in good and bad ways.)

Point being, adhering to continuity is fine, but should never, ever take precedent over good storytelling.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

The comics change continuity all the time, with authors picking and choosing what to acknowledge and what not to.

It's called Broad Strokes Trope and X-MEN needed to use it since X3 & Wolverine 1 instead of ever going back in time for FC/DoFP/Apocalypse. All those movies should've happened in present day and just find a way to ressurect Cyclops etc and kept it moving.

Broad Strokes is a concept regarding canon where the writers pick and choose what elements of an older story they want to accept into a more recent story. It could be that the overall story is intact but the specific details are changed, or that the story is ignored but the details introduced within are still being worked with. This is most often used when parts of the official canon or even basic continuity cannot be reconciled as they stand.

So now the whole thing is a mess and why Logan has to take place in freaking 2030 just to get away from Singer's continuity nightmare. And its why they shouldn't have given Singer full control over this thing for the majority of 17 years. He doesn't understand the comics and this is the result. Just small things that he probably thought didn't mean anything are now overly analyzed but the worst part is we analyzing this stuff and it's actually pointless and will most likely never be brought up again

Everything is questioned multiple versions of multiple characters. Fans all have our own head canon nothing lines up.

**** it might as well embrace the confusion now.

Deadpool 3 or X-force film could introduce a in contunity version of X-23

There is no continuity. Just a series of unfortunate retcons

But you know the good thing about clones? There's always more lieing around

 

[Roose Bolton]

The first and only thing they should have been concerned about is making a good film. I'd rather have a great film that doesn't doesn't completely fit in with other instalments than a film that's god awful and connects to everything. Fans can ***** about continuity and changes from the comics all they want, but at the end of the day all that matters is that the filmmakers created a good movie.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Well nothing straight out says its NOT in the same universe, it likely will be seen as part of the same universe its just it seems like it was written very loosely to be in the same universe.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Well nothing straight out says its NOT in the same universe

I hope it is so DoFP epilogue becomes irrelevant

The first and only thing they should have been concerned about is making a good film.

Not true they care about making a profitable film over making it good. You think FoX cared about winning one single award for Deadpool they just hoped it turn a small profit. We're dealing with a studio who doesn't know any of these characters other than Wolverine (I guess they know him a little)

Fans can ***** about continuity and changes from the comics all they want, but at the end of the day all that matters is that the filmmakers created a good movie.

Then they should adapt something else. They didn't create X-Men so if they don't want fan reactions they should've bought a different IP.

Simon Kinberg, LSD, & Singer shouldn't tell people how it's all connected in every interview etc etc

And going against what your CORE fanbase actually wants release after release resulted in reduced box office returns which waa the only thing FoX cared about in the first place.

Let's just call a spade a spade it is what it is.

Logan won't be effected because this is Jackman's swan song and everyone is going anyways.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

The first and only thing they should have been concerned about is making a good film. I'd rather have a great film that doesn't doesn't completely fit in with other instalments than a film that's god awful and connects to everything. Fans can ***** about continuity and changes from the comics all they want, but at the end of the day all that matters is that the filmmakers created a good movie.

I sometimes crticize Nolan because TDKT wasn't Batman enough, but you know what? I wouldn't have gotten The Dark Knight if Nolan had been bogged down with ancillary bull****. So if I can get over that I think I'll be alright with Logan being it's own thing.