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The Dark Knight Rises Mad as a Hatter:The Official Jervis Tetch Thread

But BTAS portrayed him as a perverted freak just as much as some of the comics :confused:

The only difference being, they had to tone it down since it was a family cartoon.
How? He never did anything regarding children, his only love interest Alice, while younger than him, was atleast seventeen or eighteen.
 
I think pedophiles should be a more common villain-type for movies (the villain doesen't always have to be the coolest character in a film) because they are truly repulsive and its good to explore taboos

but a pedophile just seems like it should be the bottom of Batman's priorities. He probably catches pedophiles every week.

U wana go from a ninja cult-leader to a nihilistic clown-terrorist to...a midget pedophile?
 
I remember a suggestion for the Batman 3 plot that I heard which had Scarecrow and Mad Hatter team up and create an illusion so Gotham looked like something out of American McGee's Alice. I thought it was a pretty cool concept.
 
I think pedophiles should be a more common villain-type for movies (the villain doesen't always have to be the coolest character in a film) because they are truly repulsive and its good to explore taboos

but a pedophile just seems like it should be the bottom of Batman's priorities. He probably catches pedophiles every week.

U wana go from a ninja cult-leader to a nihilistic clown-terrorist to...a midget pedophile?

He's not necessarily a midget you know. That seems to differ with different artists.
But you're right, he's not a child molestor. He idolises children and through his mind control wants to make people more like them. In a warped way, so they'll "play" with him.
He's a guy who has nothing and no one. So he forces you to hang out with him.
That's disturbing enough.
 
How? He never did anything regarding children, his only love interest Alice, while younger than him, was atleast seventeen or eighteen.
The idea was there, it just takes effort to read between the lines. He's an older guy infatuated with a young girl, enough to kidnap her and 'play Alice in Wonderland' with her.
He's not necessarily a midget you know. That seems to differ with different artists.
But you're right, he's not a child molestor. He idolises children and through his mind control wants to make people more like them. In a warped way, so they'll "play" with him.
He's a guy who has nothing and no one. So he forces you to hang out with him.
That's disturbing enough.
So you're saying he's the Michael Jackson of the DC universe? It's basically down to your own interpretation, depending on how you view Michael Jackson/Mad Hatter.

One thing is for sure- Nolan won't be using mind control for two reasons. Firstly it's not as grounded in reality as terrorism or corruption. Secondly, it's more or less been done by The Riddler in Batman Forever.
 
Michael Jackson?
I just told you that Jerivs Tetch is not a child molestor. What are you getting at exactly? I'm afraid your point confuses me a little. Are you basically saying that he could be a sex offender and it's all up to the writer? I can appreciate that. But making him a rapist seems kind of lowbrow and a little distasteful.
And as for the mind control, as this series is showing the beginings of the characters I would like to see an evolution of the methods Hatter uses to control his drones.
 
I'm saying, some people think Michael Jackson is a child molestor. Some people think he's just a big kid who wants children to play with him. This analogy can be applied to the Mad Hatter.

Do you think Batman lives in a world where child abuse and human trafficking is non-existant? It's not lowbrow, it's pretty damn brave to approach that sort of subject maturely.
 
I'd prefer Mad Hatter to not be a child molester... We've seen hynotists, why not find away to work with that with technology. Of course there's the concept of realism, I mean with the microwave emitter and the sonar floating around something that messes with hypnotic suggestion is too out there! Now of course child abuse and all that stuff is present in Batman's world, but so is purse snatching. I say we have someone who is a villain of the more colorful sort do that...The Ventriloquist snatching purses would be a sight to see!

Now, I hope that nobody took me seriously with that...but the thing I say is, if we are going to see normal crimes, then I would prefer to not have them wasted on a villain that has some worth. I like the Mad Hatter, in BTAS he blamed Batman for all of his problems the most of all of the rougues gallery...in almost every episode he was in...granted there were like 2 that he didn't say anything to Batman about the way the bat drove the hat into crime but still...
 
Yes Schlinder's List is an adult movie. TDK is not an adult movie - its a dark movie. BB3 with a pedophile Mad Hatter would not make it an adult movie either, it would make it...a dark movie. These movies are targeted and marketed towards teens and young adults - not children. This same demographic, teens and young adults, are one of the key target demographics for Law and Order: SVU.

You can't say that TDK went "kid friendly" by not killing off sympathetic characters - they ****in killed Batman's girl friend. They killed off cops. They killed a whole hell of a lot of people.



Did Mary Jane die? Did Harry try to kill Peter's innocent son? You can't honestly say TDK wasn't more mature than Spider-Man 2.

Again, having Mad Hatter be a pedophile does not hurt BB3 at all. If you aren't going to go that route - there is no reason to use the character at all.

I think a more logic idea would be to have Mad Hatter perhaps be behind a lot of bizarre crimes and even maybe murders but with a Nolan twist.

He can simply be hypnotizing many teens or young adults to commit crimes and be somewhat a very dangerous mind to deal with. Kinda a similar Shredder TMNT but more notorious at tricking minds to do his bidding.

He can be written into Nolans world with a good script and as far as BB3 goes The Riddler & Mad Hatter I believe would be ACE.

:D:D
 
Why, again, must he be a pedophile? Isn't it enough for him to kidnap, torture and brainwash? It's not that the pedophile angle doesn't fit his character (although it's not usually explored). It fits in nicely with his Alice in Wonderland fixation. But honestly I think the mind control gimmick is his real trademark; it shouldn't be hard for Nolan to come up with a way to use that.

"Mind control" doesn't have to be mind control. He can just be a master of psychological manipulation and coercion of various sorts. Have him kidnap Lucius Fox or Gordon, and torture them for information. Or have him plant suggestions in people's minds via hypnosis, to make them lie on the witness stand or something.



I'd be satisfied with a minor henchman role for him. Smaller than Scarecrow in BB. And he could probably lose either the nickname or the look (but maybe not both).
 
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I'm saying, some people think Michael Jackson is a child molestor. Some people think he's just a big kid who wants children to play with him. This analogy can be applied to the Mad Hatter.

Do you think Batman lives in a world where child abuse and human trafficking is non-existant? It's not lowbrow, it's pretty damn brave to approach that sort of subject maturely.

He could turn out to be a socially or mentally ******ed child abuser who doesn't know he's abusing children. In this instance, Jervis likely would have suffered from his own case of abuse (unless he was mentally ******ed) as a child that was bad enough to halt his development, thus leaving him with the beliefs that it's okay to "play doctor" with five-year old children.

Either that, or make him some incredibly genius criminal that is able to pretend that this is his problem, thus getting him locked up in Arkham rather than thrown into jail.
 
One of the hands down best ideas I've seen for a movie Mad Hatter is this:

Jarvis Tetch is a single dad who lost his wife years ago, and is trying to raise his daughter Alice. Alice is the love of his life, the center of his world. Her favorite story is, of course, Alice in Wonderland. Often times the doting father would act out scenes for her, her favorite being the Tea Party, and he would always play the Hatter.

Well, one day, as Jarvis and Alice are out for a walk, a thug tries to mug them. In the ensuing scuffle, Alice is shot and killed, and Jarvis is hit hard in the head. The grief of losing his daughter, of being completely alone, and the injury to his head push Jarvis over the edge. He breaks from reality, refusing to accept that Alice is gone. He goes insane, and becomes the Hatter, always looking for "his Alice."

He begins to abduct young blond girls who look similar to his daughter, and forces them to act out the tea party with him. Each time Jarvis eventually realizes the girl isn't his daughter, and goes into a rage, killing them, suspecting them to be decoys laid by "the Queen." Jarvis continues on his rampage, doomed to never find his daughter.

I wish I could take credit for this idea, but I actually read it on here a few years ago. I actually played around with this characterization of Jarvis in the Role Playing Games a while back, and it was pretty fun.

I've also toyed around with starting Jarvis out as a scientist in Wayne Enterprises, one who Wayne knows and even likes. The quiet, mild mannered scientist, who's also a struggling dad to accept the death of his wife and rise his daughter. That way, when Jarvis gets attacked and loses Alice, Bruce (who thinks Jarvis was killed as well) has more of an emotional connection, and when he finally discovers that Jarvis is the one behind the child killings, it's also a much heavier and emotionally striking moment.
 
One of the hands down best ideas I've seen for a movie Mad Hatter is this:

Jarvis Tetch is a single dad who lost his wife years ago, and is trying to raise his daughter Alice. Alice is the love of his life, the center of his world. Her favorite story is, of course, Alice in Wonderland. Often times the doting father would act out scenes for her, her favorite being the Tea Party, and he would always play the Hatter.

Well, one day, as Jarvis and Alice are out for a walk, a thug tries to mug them. In the ensuing scuffle, Alice is shot and killed, and Jarvis is hit hard in the head. The grief of losing his daughter, of being completely alone, and the injury to his head push Jarvis over the edge. He breaks from reality, refusing to accept that Alice is gone. He goes insane, and becomes the Hatter, always looking for "his Alice."

He begins to abduct young blond girls who look similar to his daughter, and forces them to act out the tea party with him. Each time Jarvis eventually realizes the girl isn't his daughter, and goes into a rage, killing them, suspecting them to be decoys laid by "the Queen." Jarvis continues on his rampage, doomed to never find his daughter.

I wish I could take credit for this idea, but I actually read it on here a few years ago. I actually played around with this characterization of Jarvis in the Role Playing Games a while back, and it was pretty fun.

I've also toyed around with starting Jarvis out as a scientist in Wayne Enterprises, one who Wayne knows and even likes. The quiet, mild mannered scientist, who's also a struggling dad to accept the death of his wife and rise his daughter. That way, when Jarvis gets attacked and loses Alice, Bruce (who thinks Jarvis was killed as well) has more of an emotional connection, and when he finally discovers that Jarvis is the one behind the child killings, it's also a much heavier and emotionally striking moment.

I don't know about the scientist route, Batman's already got a mad scientist in Man-Bat.

However, the whole father thing is a good story, I can really see Nolan pushing that to the screen.
 
I prefer the idea of Tetch's move into crime to be nothing but the work of someone extremely deranged. Not all bad people suffer loss and pain, sometimes they're just born bad.
With Tetch I think this is the case. He's a nerdy guy, a computer technician who can't hold down a job and has no friends or life. He knows he's lonely but blames everyone else. Because, obviousy, it can't be his fault.
So, he decides to make himself some friends. He leads a small human trafficking ring but embodies the new class of freaks. He doesn't sell the people into sexual slavery or anything you might expect. But instead locks them in an abandoned apartment complex and experiments with his brainwashing techniques.
Seriously, this guy could be a great villain.
How would Batman deal with him if he had a circle of drones around him with guns in their mouths?
Batman tries to take Tetch down and all those people will kill themselves.
There's a lot of possibilities for the character. But not as a main villain. I think he should be someone Batman takes down at the start of the movie.
I don't think you even need to explore his motivations, he's just a freak who Batman has to deal with.
 
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Brain washing usually takes weeks. I think Batman will catch the guy before M.H. finishes with the victim. I don't see the cult angle with this villain.
 
A cult? No, it's not a cult. He's just perfecting his methods of manipulation.
Like The Joker experimenting with his laughing gas in The Man Who Laughs.
 
I don't know about the scientist route, Batman's already got a mad scientist in Man-Bat.

However, the whole father thing is a good story, I can really see Nolan pushing that to the screen.

I really only put that part in there to give him a connection to Bruce, and since Tetch was a scientist of sorts (or computer specialist, whatever you want to make him into) I figured that would fit at Wayne corporation.

I think it has lots of potential though, especially when Batman discovers that this man who has been murdering children in gruesome ways is a man he knew and liked, and that the man doesn't even realize what he's doing. It could be a very heavy moment for Batman.

Ronny
--I agree with you as well, I'm usually not for making every villain sympathetic, (I think Raimi has a compulsion with this, it's like he must have at least one sympathetic villain in his SM movies). However, I think there is a lot of potential in this idea.

I do like your idea though, it would be interesting to see Jarvis be a kind of jigsaw like character, except that instead of putting his captures in deathtraps, he uses extreme isolation tactics and mind games to brainwash them. It would be especially creepy if he did this to children as well.
 
A cult? No, it's not a cult. He's just perfecting his methods of manipulation.
Like The Joker experimenting with his laughing gas in The Man Who Laughs.

I know he isn't in a cult, it was just a bad joke in relating to him brain washing.

I can see him trying to brainwash a victim, and maybe he does, and even though he's beat up and sent to Arkham, he still wins because the victim is still playing his sick games.

It can work, but it just seems like it would take a long time for him to brainwash a person, if it is pushed into the story somehow, I can only picture him converting one person, Alice if you will.

Even then though, I think it would be a little too slow paced for this generation's comic book movie fans and children.

I really only put that part in there to give him a connection to Bruce, and since Tetch was a scientist of sorts (or computer specialist, whatever you want to make him into) I figured that would fit at Wayne corporation.

I think it has lots of potential though, especially when Batman discovers that this man who has been murdering children in gruesome ways is a man he knew and liked, and that the man doesn't even realize what he's doing. It could be a very heavy moment for Batman.

Ronny
--I agree with you as well, I'm usually not for making every villain sympathetic, (I think Raimi has a compulsion with this, it's like he must have at least one sympathetic villain in his SM movies). However, I think there is a lot of potential in this idea.

I do like your idea though, it would be interesting to see Jarvis be a kind of jigsaw like character, except that instead of putting his captures in deathtraps, he uses extreme isolation tactics and mind games to brainwash them. It would be especially creepy if he did this to children as well.

I think the idea of connecting him is a great idea, I just don't like the scientist idea. In my opinion a computer specialist other than another scientist is a better idea.
 
It can work, but it just seems like it would take a long time for him to brainwash a person, if it is pushed into the story somehow, I can only picture him converting one person, Alice if you will.

Ah, but when we see him he'd already have his drones.
Leading the audience to wonder just how long that sicko has been doing it. I think that's a cilling thought, that it isn't something he's just done, he's been at it for some time and in a place like Gotham it got ignored.
 
Ah, but when we see him he'd already have his drones.
Leading the audience to wonder just how long that sicko has been doing it. I think that's a cilling thought, that it isn't something he's just done, he's been at it for some time and in a place like Gotham it got ignored.

That could work too.
 
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this, everyone keeps saying that a "pedophile" Mad Hatter wouldn't work in the Nolan movies because the crime of rape and child molesting isn't mentioned or implied in the movies, but does anyone remember in BB towards the end when the prisoners were escaping from Arkham and Flass and Gordon came on the scene and Gordon asked Flass something like, "Who got out?", and Flass said something like, "Your usual: serial killers, rapist", etc, etc.

So a Mad Hatter sex offender could work but whether or not the character deserves a major role, thats a toss up. I think his role should be small like the Scarecrow in BB; more of a subplot.
 
Does anybody else see Jervis Tetch = Charles Manson in these movies?

No, not really. Charles Manson was pure evil but Tetch is essentially a gibbering idiot. There's no reason for his behaviour but he's such a pathetic figure and his goals are so childish that one could easily pity him.
Not so much for Charles Manson, he was a devil, he really was.
 
What about making Mad Hatter like Shredder in the original TMNT movie? Manipulating children to commit crimes like robberies for him.
 

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