"Make America Great Again"the F'dup Chapters in American History (The Trump Years) - Part 3

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[Dr Lee]

Remember folks, we live in a post-truth society now, whatever anyone says is their truth and it's offensive to contradict them. If Trump says he's a resounding success and 500,000 people attended the WH Dinner (even though it can only seat like, 500?) then it's offensive to contradict him.

Exactly this... Anyone who shows that the room is empty or that the Trump Administration filled it with seat fillers or whatever it is that actually happens instead of the claims that Trump/Spicer/Conway/Whoever spew out... they're 'Fake News' and not worthy of the Cult of Trump's attention

 

[DeadPresident]

Exactly this... Anyone who shows that the room is empty or that the Trump Administration filled it with seat fillers or whatever it is that actually happens instead of the claims that Trump/Spicer/Conway/Whoever spew out... they're 'Fake News' and not worthy of the Cult of Trump's attention

Yep, exactly, they're just circulating conspiracies and old photos of the WH Dinner taken before all the guests arrived to try and unsettle the Supreme Lord and Emperor's successful first few weeks as President.

 

[Sithborg]

So, Trump sounds like he may be planning a rally in the UK, with him being snubbed by Parliament.

I'm sure that will go well.

 

[Dr Lee]

I want him to do it.... simply to watch it fail abysmally... then laugh my head off at it.

 

[DeadPresident]

Before people assume that they should remember the same majority that voted for Brexit will likely be sympathetic to the orange goon.

 

[Dr Lee]

Not in the slightest.... you still have the loudmouth Brexiteers shouting and screaming about how great and awesome and shiny everything will be once it's done, but the majority of people are now not convinced that Brexit will be a good thing for the UK when it's done.

You're more likely to see massive protests and lots of problems than you are to see mass screaming crowds of supporters.

 

[DeadPresident]

I agree, the popularity of the Brexit decision might still be low, but the nationalist and isolationist sentiment that got people to vote on it might still be there. The nationalist right wing is on the rise from Western Europe and it's moving along all the way to the East. It started with Brexit, built on to Marine Le Pen's growing popularity in France and has shifted to Germany's right wing also gaining traction.

I think there are people in Europe that are far more sympathetic to Trump's overall message of "Us First" than people may think. Hopefully in France's upcoming election Marine Le Pen gets trounced, otherwise it'll be 3 for 3 in terms of nationalist events that could end up as borderline tragedies.

 

[Dr Lee]

So Trump holds a rally for the racists and the like in the UK.... that would be so utterly awesome for the image of the US worldwide.

 

[DeadPresident]

He's already been elected and Bannon is working his strings and playing the US democratic process like a cheap piano, we're way past the point of the US's image or reputation being salvageable now.

Assuming anything Trump does now after everything he's already said and done is going to redeem the US as a whole (I'm not sure why we're conflating the image of a country solely with its president, either) seems like rearranging the furniture on the Titanic.

 

[Dr Lee]

Fair point....

 

[DeadPresident]

I'm not optimistic, but we need the only two relevant countries in the EU (France and Germany) to step up and hopefully stem this little Mexican wave of fascism/authoritarianism building from the West to the East. If France elects Le Pen and in Germany's next election cycle they elect a right-winger that's some pretty bad news for everyone on the Continent, most of all the smaller countries comprising the EU who benefit from its trade setup. The EU needs to start showing some spine, but it doesn't possess the leaders right now to do so.

 

[djsunyc]

I'm not optimistic, but we need the only two relevant countries in the EU (France and Germany) to step up and hopefully stem this little Mexican wave of fascism/authoritarianism building from the West to the East. If France elects Le Pen and in Germany's next election cycle they elect a right-winger that's some pretty bad news for everyone on the Continent, most of all the smaller countries comprising the EU who benefit from its trade setup. The EU needs to start showing some spine, but it doesn't possess the leaders right now to do so.

if the world goes right and fascist then i would have to guess ISIS and the like would be very happy as people's individual rights will be curtailed and dialed back a bit which mirrors their own philosophy.

 

[2kt09]

I'm not optimistic, but we need the only two relevant countries in the EU (France and Germany) to step up and hopefully stem this little Mexican wave of fascism/authoritarianism building from the West to the East.

How genuinely bad is it in those 2 countries?
Because terrorism and economic/cultural downpour are quite the unifying rally cries.

 

[DeadPresident]

if the world goes right and fascist then i would have to guess ISIS and the like would be very happy as people's individual rights will be curtailed and dialed back a bit which mirrors their own philosophy.

They don't want their ideology mirrored, though, they want a war with the west, open war that they can keep using to radicalize youths that are prone to their ideology. ISIS, by numbers, is busy dwindling, but thanks to Saudi Arabia's enthusiastic funding of all and sundry terrorist groups they likely won't fizzle out just yet.

Extremism is here to stay, it's not a problem of religious extremism anymore at all, extremism is now a part of the average person's life all over the world. Look at this forum, almost everything is a binary opposition between two things, Marvel or DC, Xbox or Playstation, Democrat or Republican, Pro-Choice or Pro-Life, Pro-2nd Amendment or Anti-2nd Amendment, Pro-Israel or Pro-Palestine, etc, etc. We're all radicals now in terms of our firmly held beliefs, we mirror ISIS already, everyone just isn't willing to resort to violence to propagate their views yet.

 

[chamber-music]

I hear they might move Trumps state visit to Birmingham instead of London because they think he will get a more favorable welcome. The right wing press in the UK thinks it is because Birmingham voted to for Brexit.

Birmingham which is England's second city only won it for leave marginally (3,800 votes won it for leave) so I wouldn't think it is more pro-Trump based on that assumption. The City is almost 50/50.

Trump would not get a good reception in London. Londoners were overwhelmingly remainers in the Brexit vote.

 

[chamber-music]

Boston, Lincolnshire was the highest leave favoring area in the country. 10% of the small markets town's population has become eastern European over the last decade.

The rate of change is understandably shocking for some of the older residents but the hostility towards them is crazy.

Small market towns in other parts of the country are slowly dying with people moving away from those places to like in the bigger cities. You would think they would be grateful for the population boost.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...e-most-divided-place-in-england-a6838041.html

[YT]/Qj562AiEo0Q[/YT]

I'm not optimistic, but we need the only two relevant countries in the EU (France and Germany) to step up and hopefully stem this little Mexican wave of fascism/authoritarianism building from the West to the East. If France elects Le Pen and in Germany's next election cycle they elect a right-winger that's some pretty bad news for everyone on the Continent, most of all the smaller countries comprising the EU who benefit from its trade setup. The EU needs to start showing some spine, but it doesn't possess the leaders right now to do so.

I think Germany will be alright in the long run. Germans are reasonably level headed. Most modern Germans favor stability over radical ideology.

France is the bigger worry. The far right has been making in roads in France for years.

 

[DeadPresident]

I think Germany will be alright in the long run. Germans are reasonably level headed. Most modern Germans favor stability over radical ideology.

France is the bigger worry. The far right has been making in roads in France for years.

Yeah, I'd tend to agree. France I can understand, I know people always make the "You're more likely to be killed in a car accident than by a terrorist" kind of argument, but when citizens are being mown over by trucks at public celebrations or women are being sexually assaulted en masse in public places the population is only going to have one kind of reaction if it feels its safety and interests aren't being protected. Accepting all and sundry refugees is an emotionally satisfying and kind gesture, but it's not going to have the outcome the kind-hearted want.

France is a risk because of how many radical attacks it's suffered in recent times and its popularity as a target for extremism, Germany I feel is a risk because Merkel was wholly irresponsible with her unqualified and public call for all refugees to come to Germany. Whether it's a statistically relevant threat or not, that part of Europe's perception is that their own government's aren't that concerned with their safety, it's going to have real outcomes at the ballots, we have two precedents already: Brexit and Trump. I do agree though, France is the bigger concern, Le Pen's rise is disturbing.

 

[bell110]

...everyone just isn't willing to resort to violence to propagate their views yet.

You haven't been following the news, have you? Especially the anti-free speech riots on campuses.

Anyway, some good has come out of the Trump election that even his haters should consider a positive.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/aclu-seeing-trump-era-surge-135309175.html

And not even a thank you. I'm sure that money will be well spent.

 

[DeadPresident]

You haven't been following the news, have you? Especially the anti-free speech riots on campuses.

Anyway, some good has come out of the Trump election that even his haters should consider a positive.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/aclu-seeing-trump-era-surge-135309175.html

And not even a thank you. I'm sure that money will be well spent.

That's a minority, I said everyone. Leftists have always been just as capable of violence as right-wingers. I mean people still want to pretend that the Nazis weren't a left-wing, socialist organization, this shouldn't come as a surprise.

Minor positives under a Trump administration won't outweigh the damage he and ****wits like Bannon are capable of, people need to contextualize these things. Community-based NGO and other social organizations are also going to be able to do diddly squat about Trump and his cronies' actions, America's only hope now is the courts and some principled people doing what they can to force due process down Trump's ignorant throat.

 

[bell110]

Yeah, I'd tend to agree. France I can understand, I know people always make the "You're more likely to be killed in a car accident than by a terrorist" kind of argument, but when citizens are being mown over by trucks at public celebrations or women are being sexually assaulted en masse in public places the population is only going to have one kind of reaction if it feels its safety and interests aren't being protected. Accepting all and sundry refugees is an emotionally satisfying and kind gesture, but it's not going to have the outcome the kind-hearted want.

France is a risk because of how many radical attacks it's suffered in recent times and its popularity as a target for extremism, Germany I feel is a risk because Merkel was wholly irresponsible with her unqualified and public call for all refugees to come to Germany. Whether it's a statistically relevant threat or not, that part of Europe's perception is that their own government's aren't that concerned with their safety, it's going to have real outcomes at the ballots, we have two precedents already: Brexit and Trump. I do agree though, France is the bigger concern, Le Pen's rise is disturbing.

You write all that yet, I assume, think Brexit and Trump were bad outcomes? When your government gives **** all to it's own citizens, your damn straight people are going to vote for the people that do. As they should.

 

[TheCommissioner]

you want to support a white nationalist agenda?

I will happily punch you in the face

don't think women should have the right to choose?

I will happily punch you in the face

think our LGBTQ citizens don't deserve the same rights as everyone else?

I will happily punch you in the face

 

[regwec]

Before people assume that they should remember the same majority that voted for Brexit will likely be sympathetic to the orange goon.

I am going to spend the rest of my life saying this, but there is little psychological equivalence between the Brexit and Trump phenomena. I support the former and loathe the latter, and many share that position. You should consider that there were and are separate factions opposing the EU in Britain. Two of them even fought it out for the official designation to lead the Leave campaign: VoteLeave (broadly speaking Conservatives and some from the old socialist left of the Labour Party whose agenda was national self determination), and Grassroots Out (largely drawn from Ukip and opposed to immigration).

To put the record straight: support for leaving the EU has increased since June 23rd.

So Trump holds a rally for the racists and the like in the UK.... that would be so utterly awesome for the image of the US worldwide.

I think this is probably right. Trump is likely to draw the racist elements of Ukip, the EDL, and a lot of protestors. It is a terrible plan from the perspective of his own self interest.

 

[DeadPresident]

You write all that yet, I assume, think Brexit and Trump were bad outcomes? When your government gives **** all to it's own citizens, your damn straight people are going to vote for the people that do. As they should.

I don't see things in terms of good or bad, and I don't have a dog in this fight. I see things in terms of natural consequences, and they don't have a morality. Each action has an equal and opposite reaction. Foreign terrorism in a sovereign nation over the span of 15-20 years, accrued, and you're going to get an underlying xenophobic tendency that is understandable but at the same time grotesque and undesirable.

I'm not making a moral judgment, that's how things pan out, and that's how human beings function. If people want specific outcomes they need to understand how to achieve those results within the constraints of how human beings operate, we don't live in this la la land where everyone magically gets along - that takes actual work and effort.

you want to support a white nationalist agenda?

I will happily punch you in the face

don't think women should have the right to choose?

I will happily punch you in the face

think our LGBTQ citizens don't deserve the same rights as everyone else

I will happily punch you in the face

And then when the goose-steppers come for you, you won't complain either, correct? An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, and all that. You're as bad as the right-wing fascists.

Remember, if you're advocating that violence is permissible this whole discussion becomes about nothing other than power, and who has the ability to exert theirs over others. If Trump and Bannon were to get their little 4th Reich going, the violence you support will come back at you.