"Make America Great Again"the F'dup Chapters in American History (The Trump Years) - Part 3

[chamber-music]

Fox news don't even class themselves as news. They call themselves entertainment and spend most of their time giving their opinion of events rather than reporting the facts of them.

Obama didn't delegitimize fox news as fox news is barely seen as a legitimate news by anyone. If you want a good conservative skewed news source then I can name many that are more credible and insightful than fox news.

 

[summerteeth]

I'm missing the point?

You're comparing a sound bite with Obama attacking 2% of the press to Trump trying to completely discredit 98% of the press.

Also your comparing a single comment Obama had against the Supreme Court to Trump's DOJ battling the courts over and over, attacking the credibility of judges over and over and coming a hair away from ignoring a judicial order putting the United States on the brink of a constitutional crisis.

That's like saying because one parent lied about Santa Clause it justifies another parent kidnapping you to join a doomsday cult.

It's not a soundbite it was rather consistent throughout his administration and it happened to be the biggest news organization that would criticize him regularly. The rest of the media was soft on him even to the point where they came to his defense in a Presidential debate, he had no need to be critical. Obama was constantly punching down unnecessarily and the new guy is just flailing blindly in all directions.

Downplay it as a single comment and in light of Trump's constant attacks I understand how it can seem miniscule, but it wasn't. It's about precedent and Obama set it. Try finding another President that did that aside from Nixon or FDR, after Nixon the sort of deference for separation of powers was reset. W. once answered a question about a ruling and he said he thought what his administration was legal but that they would honor the ruling that's about it.

I agree with Schlosser, the scariest thing about Trump to me is what comes after with the kind of precedent he is setting here.

 

[Zarex]

I can see a charming, handsome more politically savvy version of Trump attempting to discredit the courts and the free press. And making legitimate headway in consolidating more power within the executive branch. Regardless of who succeeds the Orange Lump of Feces in Chief, the office of the president needs to be taken down a notch or three.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Orwell predicted it all, man.

Fox news don't even class themselves as news. They call themselves entertainment and spend most of their time giving their opinion of events rather than reporting the facts of them.

Obama didn't delegitimize fox news as fox news is barely seen as a legitimate news by anyone. If you want a good conservative skewed news source then I can name many that are more credible and insightful than fox news.

For his sake, I hope he's merely a troll trying his darndest to be subtle. These days it can be hard to tell.

Just keep in mind that selective memory is one of the hallmarks of the pseudo-intellectual (and pseudo-science for that matter). It comes about when someone decides something absolutely must be true well in advance of any possible proof (ex. Obamas rebuke of the Court set such a strong precedent that it will echo through history).

Often these ideas have some strain of confirmation bias. And occasionally they can be dangerous. I would call the idea that Trump is operating in some New Normal established by Obama is a bizarre, probably emotionally self-serving distortion of reality and history.

 

[wobbly]

Orwell predicted it all, man.

'Newspeak' and 'Doublethink' are officially Trump policies, he and his cronies just calls them different names atm, like 'Fake News' and 'Alternate Facts'.

'Thoughtcrime' is already in the works in a way. Branding legit Media as 'enemies of the American People' is a step in that direction.

The Big S##Gibbon is watching you.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

It's not a soundbite it was rather consistent throughout his administration and it happened to be the biggest news organization that would criticize him regularly. The rest of the media was soft on him even to the point where they came to his defense in a Presidential debate, he had no need to be critical. Obama was constantly punching down unnecessarily and the new guy is just flailing blindly in all directions.

Downplay it as a single comment and in light of Trump's constant attacks I understand how it can seem miniscule, but it wasn't. It's about precedent and Obama set it. Try finding another President that did that aside from Nixon or FDR, after Nixon the sort of deference for separation of powers was reset. W. once answered a question about a ruling and he said he thought what his administration was legal but that they would honor the ruling that's about it.

I agree with Schlosser, the scariest thing about Trump to me is what comes after with the kind of precedent he is setting here.

The media was soft on Obama because his policies were generally measured and moderate.

Trump is not.

You're saying a president pointing out a single news network as being biased is just as bad as a president calling all journalism, fact checkers, press, etc "fake news".

Can you not see the difference between criticismof a specific news organization and trying to delegitimize an entire institution (the press)?

Apparently not.

And a single sentence doesn't set precedent for the amount of pre-fascism Trump is engaged in. It's actually actions that set precedent.

Also this is not the last month of Trump's term, it's the first month. The scariest thing about Trump is that he has plenty of time to make American authoritarianism and neofascism a reality.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

'Newspeak' and 'Doublethink' are officially Trump policies, he and his cronies just calls them different names atm, like 'Fake News' and 'Alternate Facts'.

'Thoughtcrime' is already in the works in a way. Branding legit Media as 'enemies of the American People' is a step in that direction.

The Big S##Gibbon is watching you.

Also defending a sketchy and autocratic Russia and trampling the Bill of Rights is the New Patriotism.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

For his sake, I hope he's merely a troll trying his darndest to be subtle. These days it can be hard to tell.

Just keep in mind that selective memory is one of the hallmarks of the pseudo-intellectual (and pseudo-science for that matter). It comes about when someone decides something absolutely must be true well in advance of any possible proof (ex. Obamas rebuke of the Court set such a strong precedent that it will echo through history).

Often these ideas have some strain of confirmation bias. And occasionally they can be dangerous. I would call the idea that Trump is operating in some New Normal established by Obama is a bizarre, probably emotionally self-serving distortion of reality and history.

Summerteeth knows Trump is beyond wrong.

The worrying part is that he and other orange Kool Aid drinkers don't care. They goal is to normalize Trump's extremism by nitpicking things moderates have done to help Trump establish his unconstitutional regime.

 

[summerteeth]

The media was soft on Obama because his policies were generally measured and moderate.

Trump is not.

You're saying a president pointing out a single news network as being biased is just as bad as a president calling all journalism, fact checkers, press, etc "fake news".

Can you not see the difference between criticismof a specific news organization and trying to delegitimize an entire institution (the press)?

Apparently not.

And a single sentence doesn't set precedent for the amount of pre-fascism Trump is engaged in. It's actually actions that set precedent.

Also this is not the last month of Trump's term, it's the first month. The scariest thing about Trump is that he has plenty of time to make American authoritarianism and neofascism a reality.

I mean...this is why I keep saying you are missing the point. I do see the difference between attacking a specific news organization vs the whole media. There is a difference. What I am saying is that Obama set this precedent. It was not normal to go after an media organization whole sale like Obama did. I can't think of another President that did it. It was not normal at the time to criticize a Supreme Court ruling at a State of the Union Address. The bully pulpit does matter and it can set precedent.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

I'm not as concerned about Trump being American Hitler as I am about him helping possibly pave the way for one.

This. The scariest thing about Trump is that he's potentially only a "gateway idiot."

His rise to power is emboldening some ugly forces in this country and world. If he continues to be normalized and doesn't flame out in spectacular fashion (still highly likely) I'm worried about what then comes next...

 

[chamber-music]

The false equivalent defense trump supports keep using is just embarrassing at this point. At least have the courage of your convictions to stand behind what you believe trump is doing instead of just saying "but Hillary or Obama did this" over and over again to deflect any criticism.

Even if I disagree with with someone I can at least respect them if they don't try to hide behind bs excuses for supporting something.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I mean...this is why I keep saying you are missing the point. I do see the difference between attacking a specific news organization vs the whole media. There is a difference. What I am saying is that Obama set this precedent. It was not normal to go after an media organization whole sale like Obama did. I can't think of another President that did it. It was not normal at the time to criticize a Supreme Court ruling at a State of the Union Address. The bully pulpit does matter and it can set precedent.

You're missing the point.

Presidents have publicly disagreed with Supreme Court rulings plenty of times.

But to attack a federal judge personally to discredit their judgement and to blame future terrorist attacks on a judge sets the stage to disregard the judicial branch in the future in the name of national security.

This is a pre-fascist chess move, not just Obama simply saying "hey, the supreme court shouldn't have made it much easier for the mega-wealthy to influence our elections and policy".

 

[Hurm...]

The false equivalent defense trump supports keep using is just embarrassing at this point. At least have the courage of your convictions to stand behind what you believe trump is doing instead of just saying "but Hillary or Obama did this" over and over again to deflect any criticism.

Even if I disagree with with someone I can at least respect them if they don't try to hide behind bs excuses for supporting something.

This is what I constantly see as well. It's because they deep down know he's a bumbling idiot. It's only been a month, and his supporters don't want to express that they were completely wrong, lacked foresight, etc.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

I can see a charming, handsome more politically savvy version of Trump attempting to discredit the courts and the free press. And making legitimate headway in consolidating more power within the executive branch. Regardless of who succeeds the Orange Lump of Feces in Chief, the office of the president needs to be taken down a notch or three.

That's what freaks me out, there is someone in this country absorbing and watching all of this. This person could be on the left or the right. Just imagine Obama and Trump mixed with the endgame being subverting the government and it's checks and balances.

 

[Legendver2]

That's what freaks me out, there is someone in this country absorbing and watching all of this. This person could be on the left or the right. Just imagine Obama and Trump mixed with the endgame being subverting the government and it's checks and balances.

This person can potentially be the antichrist

 

[Orba]

An example of why I like the Channel 4 News (and Jon Snow especially).

Their interview with Carter Page.
https://www.channel4.com/news/trump-carter-page-interview

 

[Sithborg]

New NSA Adviser is Gen. McMaster. A really sane choice, if a bit troubling in that he is still active duty.

Also, sounds like Christie is getting a job at the White House. Interesting to see what job Trump gives Reek.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

I've already seen speculation that McMaster was chosen because he couldn't decline due to being active duty.

 

[Marvolo]

Chris Christie is only fit for one job at the white house. Food Tester. Which is the guy that samples all the Mad King's meals to ensure its not poisoned.

 

[summerteeth]

You're missing the point.

Presidents have publicly disagreed with Supreme Court rulings plenty of times.

But to attack a federal judge personally to discredit their judgement and to blame future terrorist attacks on a judge sets the stage to disregard the judicial branch in the future in the name of national security.

This is a pre-fascist chess move, not just Obama simply saying "hey, the supreme court shouldn't have made it much easier for the mega-wealthy to influence our elections and policy".

You kind of just proved my point. Presidents don't publicly disagree with the sitting Supreme Court. It doesn't really happen the fact that you think they do is in part because Obama normalized this type of behavior and it wasn't just the State of the Union it was the whole run up to the rulings on the ACA. If you recall he called them "an unelected group of people" and that it would be unprecedented if they overturned a law passed by a democratically elected Congress. I would say calling them "an unelected group of people" is discrediting the whole court and their power to rule on the constitutionality of legislation.

W. commented on rulings that went against him like this:

"Congress and the administration worked very carefully on a piece of legislation that set the appropriate procedures in place as to how to deal with the detainees," he said.
"We'll study this opinion, and we'll do so with this in mind to determine whether or not additional legislation might be appropriate so that we can safely say, truly say to the American people. 'We are doing everything we can to protect you.'"

And he often criticized rulings at the state level dealing with gay marriage referring to them as activist judges but not the Supreme Court.

Reagan criticized a 1962 decision on school prayer and called for an amendment and said the courts threw God out of schools.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Not sure I buy calling the SCOTUS "unelected" is really an insult. It's a statement of fact. They're not elected, and they aren't supposed to be. They're put in power by people who were elected however, which is how they draw their legitimacy.

Electing judges usually works out poorly anyway. That and lifetime appointments are put in place to avoid corruption and politicizing the Courts.

 

[summerteeth]

Not sure I buy calling the SCOTUS "unelected" is really an insult. It's a statement of fact. They're not elected, and they aren't supposed to be. They're put in power by people who were elected however, which is how they draw their legitimacy.

Electing judges usually works out poorly anyway. That and lifetime appointments are put in place to avoid corruption and politicizing the Courts.

Right, but the reason why he brought up the fact that they are unelected was not to espouse the virtues of checks and balances it was to put into question their ability to rule the ACA as unconstitutional.

 

[Fading]

[YT]IXvjuFmZROo[/YT]

I think this is a great example of hypocrisy, and the comments section of the video another example of the state of mind hardcore Trump supporters have. I'm sure we've all seen the overwhelmingly ignorance, and denial from some Trump supporters online. However, this is using Trump's own words. It's undeniably provable. Yet the comments are still "Fake News!" They are indirectly calling Trump a liar to defend Trump.

Don't get me wrong, the media has it's problems. Too much concern for viewership over quality, and sometimes they jump the gun. However, the media is important. Without it most Americans would only get their news from Trump when he does a televised press conference. Having a free press is the opposite of being, "an enemy to the American people". The problems really arise when people with agendas start their own news organisations, like Trump's beloved Fox.

Plus, let's face it. "Fake News" doesn't actually stands for those particular words, in that order, and their actual meaning. "Fake News" is a way to try and delegitimize any news that's not pro Trump. It's the equivalent to plugging your ears, and trying to overtalk someone telling you a harsh truth.

 

[Fading]

I'm missing the point?

You're comparing a sound bite with Obama attacking 2% of the press to Trump trying to completely discredit 98% of the press.

Also your comparing a single comment Obama had against the Supreme Court to Trump's DOJ battling the courts over and over, attacking the credibility of judges over and over and coming a hair away from ignoring a judicial order putting the United States on the brink of a constitutional crisis.

That's like saying because one parent lied about Santa Clause it justifies another parent kidnapping you to join a doomsday cult.

Plus Obama never Tweeted, "If we have a terrorist attack in this country, blame this judge". If, God forbid, we did have a terrorist attack, how long before some disillusioned Trump supporter shoots that judge? It's not just that Trump's anti-media, or anti-court. It's that he's saying dangerous things about them. He's saying all news, but what he deems appropriate, is fake. He's pointing a finger at individuals, and saying, "blame this person if we are attacked".

 

[Fading]

lol what? All he's done is convinced a bunch of idiots that real news is fake and fake news is real. Does it not concern you that he dismisses actual intelligence,news and gets his info from Alex Jones and Fox News?

Fox News talks about Sweden taking in refugees while they play a video of Syrian civil war as a back drop and Trump conflates the two into terrible terrorist attacks in Sweden. (just as Fox intended)

He repeats and retweets outlandish and false news from Infowars and Breitbart and then says the CIA,FBI and NSA are lying to him.
That should concern anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together.

Agreed. This situation has led to 3 distinct points of Trump, or his administration lying directly to the American people, and the "Fake News" proving him wrong. The media didn't get destroyed in the eyes of anyone, but Trump supporters.

I think it was Marvolo who said Trump was a living Rorschach test. He really is. I'd like to think a majority of the audience watches a conference like that, and see a grown man complaining, ego stroking, and trying to delegitimize those he views as enemies. Then another portion of viewers saw Trump "destroying the fake news".