Homecoming Marvel & Sony's Spider-Man (2017) General Discussion - - - - - - - - - Part 70

[Spider-Who?]

This is the last time i'm adressing TASM2 suit


No, they don't look anything like Mark's art, I have USM vol 1 & 6 sitting right next to me, and no they don't. At all.

You DO realize that Bagley drew Spider-Man for more than just the Ultimate run, correct? He also drew for SM in the late 80s/early 90s which has a different style than USM.

Here's some examples of his other styles, with lenses that resemble ASM2:

Spoiler

 

[AvegningSpider]

Bendi's needs to stay the hell away from this film.. just like he needs to stay the hell away from the comics...

if you want a spidey expert for advice... go to Dan Slott

Slott to Spidey should be like Geoff Johns is to Flash, the guy that advises and guides you in the good way.

 

[harryoscop]

Bendi's needs to stay the hell away from this film.. just like he needs to stay the hell away from the comics...

if you want a spidey expert for advice... go to Dan Slott

I don't know what you have against Bendis, but I personally think he's a good writer. His work on the first 10 vols of Ultimate Spider-Man and from what I have read on Miles (Vol 1 and issue #6), has been great. But I will admit, Slot is great too.

Maybe they bring both of them, 2 is always better than one.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

This is the last time i'm adressing TASM2 suit


No, they don't look anything like Mark's art, I have USM vol 1 & 6 sitting right next to me, and no they don't. At all.
Yeah, for The Amazing Spider-Man



Okay, I will admit, they do kinda resemble how Bagley drew them for 616, but definitely not Ultimate.

sweet, we don't have to hear you complain about it anymore

ultimate sucked anyway.. the further the movies stray from that look and story lines the better... they can take inspiration from it.. but ugh.. there's not a whole lot that was improved upon (if at all). I get it, some people have a soft spot because it was how they were introduced to spidey.. but the Ultimate Universe is now destroyed.. let it rest in peace.

 

[Oscorp]

Ultimate feels like something that tries too hard to be different for the sake of being different. Forced, unnecessary and bad changes to 90% of the villains. The only good thing perhaps is the dialogue and the school aspect.

 

[harryoscop]

Ultimate improved upon the Hob Goblin storyline (Never cared for the original Roderick Kingsley storyline) and while it didn't improve upon the Symbiote storyline, I think they added a great twist and made it fresh from the original.

By the way, I zoomed into the hoodie the other day and could make out mandibles on the spider. That kinda adds a bit more credence to it being the Civil War suit, since it isn't just the comic book logo.

Interesting.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I don't know what you have against Bendis, but I personally think he's a good writer. His work on the first 10 vols of Ultimate Spider-Man and from what I have read on Miles (Vol 1 and issue #6), has been great. But I will admit, Slot is great too.

Maybe they bring both of them, 2 is always better than one.

I hate ultimate spider-man in general.. wasn't fond of the book at all.. 616 all the way.

Bendis has done some good work. but hes all flash in the pan writing for the most part.. especially current day bendis.. who's basically spear headed all the big events.. he loves and thrives off controversy... Slott all the way.. he gets spider-man.. I'm not entirely sure Bendis gets much of anything.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Ultimate feels like something that tries too hard to be different for the sake of being different. Forced, unnecessary and bad changes to 90% of the villains. The only good thing perhaps is the dialogue and the school aspect.

agrees, and even then the high school aspect isn't new.. it was just set in a modern time which was more relatable than the high-school years of the silver age. I pretty much hated the change to every single character.. and even hated the fact the way the gwen and mj were drawn (like anorexic homeless women) I agree Aunt May needed an update.. but current Aunt May is a pretty nice mix of Ultimate and her original 616 concept.. she's aged smack dab between those.. is spunky, has the parker witt, but still feels very classic.

 

[AvegningSpider]

I hate ultimate spider-man in general.. wasn't fond of the book at all.. 616 all the way.

Bendis has done some good work. but hes all flash in the pan writing for the most part.. especially current day bendis.. who's basically spear headed all the big events.. he loves and thrives off controversy... Slott all the way.. he gets spider-man.. I'm not entirely sure Bendis gets much of anything.

Bendis used to be good, but now he is more controversy than man, twisted and evil.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Ultimate improved upon the Hob Goblin storyline (Never cared for the original Roderick Kingsley storyline) and while it didn't improve upon the Symbiote storyline, I think they added a great twist and made it fresh from the original.



Interesting.

ok you're joking right? there was nothing "good" about either of the ultimate goblins.... the original 616 comic arc is still one of the most praised of that era...

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Bendis used to be good, but now he is more controversy than man, twisted and evil.

id say that's pretty accurate

 

[harryoscop]

I hate ultimate spider-man in general.. wasn't fond of the book at all.. 616 all the way.

Bendis has done some good work. but hes all flash in the pan writing for the most part.. especially current day bendis.. who's basically spear headed all the big events.. he loves and thrives off controversy... Slott all the way.. he gets spider-man.. I'm not entirely sure Bendis gets much of anything.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

just as your love is...


but no seriously.. go into comic forums.. you will see that most actually share the same bendis opinion. they may like the ultimate books (first few years of it) but most feel the same way as i do about BMB... and how he really needs to step away.

 

[Dark Raven]

ok you're joking right? there was nothing "good" about either of the ultimate goblins.... the original 616 comic arc is still one of the most praised of that era...

It's ok. Harry thought that Ultimate FF was better than classic FF before until he came to his senses.

As for classic Aunt May, I think there should be a slight retcon like what has been done with Peggy Carter and Sharon Carter. Their relationship has changed, because as we get further away from WWII, Peggy becomes too old to just be Sharon's aunt.

With classic Aunt May, they could have made her the mother of a younger Aunt May who is Peter's aunt. Therefore, the old grandma-looking May could've been Great Aunt May. That way you wouldn't completely dispense with the character or have her replaced with a younger version, but she would still exist in continuity.

 

[harryoscop]

ok you're joking right? there was nothing "good" about either of the ultimate goblins.... the original 616 comic arc is still one of the most praised of that era...

No, i'm not joking. I vastly prefer Ultimate Goblin over 616. But maybe it's because I read Ultimate's version first.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

No, i'm not joking. I vastly prefer Ultimate Goblin over 616. But maybe it's because I read Ultimate's version first.

ive noticed that's how most ultimate fans are.. they read it first.. it's ingrained with how they know the characters.. but the ultimate universe was basically a massive alt universe.. and its over and done.. the good things like miles stuck.. but everyone else was killed when the universe was destroyed.

it's like falling in love with Spider-Girl and saying that's how the stories should be.... it's all "What if" "What if spider-man took place in 1602, what if spider-man had a child? what if Spider-man existed in modern times? what if spider-man was from india? etc....

its not the "main" history of the character.. and just a minor off-shoot in the grand scheme of things.

 

[harryoscop]

By Ultimate Goblin, I mean Hob Goblin

 

[AvegningSpider]

but no seriously.. go into comic forums.. you will see that most actually share the same bendis opinion. they may like the ultimate books (first few years of it) but most feel the same way as i do about BMB... and how he really needs to step away.

You can kinda see the decension of Bendis in his Guardians books. He is now old and busted and we need a new hotness

No, i'm not joking. I vastly prefer Ultimate Goblin over 616. But maybe it's because I read Ultimate's version first.

Ultimate Goblin......eh more of a fan of Classic Goblin, i still say that seeing an actual scary but still kinda charming Goblin with this design would be AMAZING

 

[spideyboy_1111]

It's ok. Harry thought that Ultimate FF was better than classic FF before until he came to his senses.

As for classic Aunt May, I think there should be a slight retcon like what has been done with Peggy Carter and Sharon Carter. Their relationship has changed, because as we get further away from WWII, Peggy becomes too old to just be Sharon's aunt.

With classic Aunt May, they could have made her the mother of a younger Aunt May who is Peter's aunt. Therefore, the old grandma-looking May could've been Great Aunt May. That way you wouldn't completely dispense with the character or have her replaced with a younger version, but she would still exist in continuity.

eh that wouldn't care the same dynamic though.. it works with peggy and sharon because they don't really have a relationship "together".

plus.. there's not 2 peggy's and 2 sharons...

the best way to retcon aunt may is say she was fighting depression due to Ben's death.. and she was a bit of a hypochondriac. Peter being a teen and young adult.. was kinda imprinted with this and became more of a worry wart about her as well... It'd feel natural..

 

[harryoscop]

You can kinda see the decension of Bendis in his Guardians books. He is now old and busted and we need a new hotness


Ultimate Goblin......eh more of a fan of Classic Goblin, i still say that seeing an actual scary but still kinda charming Goblin with this design would be AMAZING

No, dude, I meant Hob Goblin, not Green Goblin. 616 Green Goblin is superior to Ultimate in every sense of the word.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Wow, I really like the thicker black rims and the smaller emblem.

 

[Oscorp]

agrees, and even then the high school aspect isn't new.. it was just set in a modern time which was more relatable than the high-school years of the silver age. I pretty much hated the change to every single character.. and even hated the fact the way the gwen and mj were drawn (like anorexic homeless women) I agree Aunt May needed an update.. but current Aunt May is a pretty nice mix of Ultimate and her original 616 concept.. she's aged smack dab between those.. is spunky, has the parker witt, but still feels very classic.

I agree, I dislike Gwen and MJ as well in Ultimate. Your description of how they are drawn is pretty accurate. Actually, I dislike most of the art in those books.

I hate those Spider-Man pictures that harryoscop has posted lately. The eyes look horrible, the proportions look weird and so on.

Actually, I find it hard how anyone can argue that any Ultimate villain is better than their 616 counterpart.

616 Kraven or Ultimate Kraven? I don't want a TV show "Crocodile Hunter" villain, thank you.
616 Shocker or Ultimate Shocker? That's really not up to debate even.
616 Green Goblin or Ultimate Green Goblin? 616 version is so much better that I'm baffled how anyone can prefer the much worse Hulk Goblin version.
616 Doc Ock or Ultimate Magnetock? Hmmm....nope, not that one either.
616 Venom vs Ultimate Venom? Both are pretty bad. I'd rather skip the forced parent story background though.
616 Carnage vs Ultimate Carnage? Both are bad, but didn't Ultimate make Gwen Carnage? Uhm...
616 Rhino vs Ultimate Rhino? Do we really want a generic robot guy?
616 Scorpion vs Ultimate Scorpion? Making Scorpion a clone is stupid.


I say, go the Spectacular Spider-Man that takes some of the good things of Ultimate but mostly takes inspiration from the true king 616.

 

[Dark Raven]

Is that someone's cosplay outfit?

 

[Marvel Spider]

It's the outfit they use at Disneyland.

 

[Infinity9999x]

The first 10 or so volumes of US got a good deal right about Spidey. The high school aspect, his personality, and Ock and Kingpin were done marvelously (first 10 volumes mind you.) It also improved on some things, Ultimate May being one.

It's biggest missteps was Green Goblin and Kraven. Aside from that, those first 10 volumes are solid. It's also important to remember that early USM was being written at a time that 616 Spidey was awful. Like....really, really bad. Worse than clone saga bad. Spider gods and Memphisto the magical marriage wrecker bad. So the fact that the first ten volumes of USM were not only good, but at times very good, made them seem like works of pure genius given what else was being written.

Now people tend to view USM through the lense of its latter work, which isn't completely fair, because they often don't give it credit for some of the really good things it did. It's like Frank Miller. I still give him props for his Daredevil run, and Y1 and TDKR even though his later writing was hilariously bad. And, like Bendis, the badness of his newer writing does highlight some flaws we overlooked in his good material, but it's still good.

USM is best utilized in small inspirations. SSM was the perfect combo of 616 and USM. Hopefully Disney will do something similar to what that cartoon did.