MCU Fantastic Four Box Office Predictions

[DarthSkywalker]

I think Season 2 would be great if they adapt a John Byrne run.

What word?

What was she "whining" about?

 

[Nightshift]

What word?

What was she "whining" about?

I think Season 2 would be amazing if they adapt a John Byrne run.

 

[Zorak]

A 60% drop in the second week is pretty steep tbh.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Don't you also feel like they are a little late? Disney purchase of Fox completed in 2019. By 2018 they could have set up bread crumps for Doom and they introduce F4. I remember theories of F4 buying the old Avengers tower. Although I am happy they F4 are set in a different and contained universe. The pivoting from Kang really hurt the overall structure of the next phase. As you mentioned it does seem aimless.

Well, that goes back to my previous point: running to the far left or far right of your audience instead of running to the center. Kang is okay, but Dr. Doom is THE supreme antagonist of Marvel. So, why spend all of this time and money fleshing out Kang--only to drop the actor like a bad habit (yes, I know the reasons why--but they could've recast him: it's a variant story after all), and then [seemingly] shoehorn Doom in as a substitute? And then, to add insult to perceived injury, they cast Robert Downey Jr (which reads to me as a cash grab)?

Listen, I want to be wrong about all of this. I have zero insight to what they're doing. I'm coming at this as a lifelong "True Believer". But I felt like I could clearly see their plans leading up to Endgame. There was a structure--a genuinely thought-out storyline. Now? It just feels like a series of knee-jerk reactions. Granted, some of them are 100% justified--i.e., the unexpected tragic loss of Chadwick Boseman, the COVID-19 Pandemic, actors' controversies and legal issues, etc. But they've had control of The X-Men and The Fantastic Four for six years. I don't understand why they've taken this detour off the main road to what is low hanging fruit: run to the center where your fans are.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think Season 2 would be great if they adapt a John Byrne run.

Why do you not want to answer?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well, that goes back to my previous point: running to the far left or far right of your audience instead of running to the center. Kang is okay, but Dr. Doom is THE supreme antagonist of Marvel. So, why spend all of this time and money fleshing out Kang--only to drop the actor like a bad habit (yes, I know the reasons why--but they could've recast him: it's a variant story after all), and then [seemingly] shoehorn Doom in as a substitute? And then, to add insult to perceived injury, they cast Robert Downey Jr (which reads to me as a cash grab)?

Listen, I want to be wrong about all of this. I have zero insight to what they're doing. I'm coming at this as a lifelong "True Believer". But I felt like I could clearly see their plans leading up to Endgame. There was a structure--a genuinely thought-out storyline. Now? It just feels like a series of knee-jerk reactions. Granted, some of them are 100% justified--i.e., the unexpected tragic loss of Chadwick Boseman, the COVID-19 Pandemic, actors' controversies and legal issues, etc. But they've had control of The X-Men and The Fantastic Four for six years. I don't understand why they've taken this detour off the main road to what is low hanging fruit: run to the center where your fans are.

Kang became an issue with the combination of the actor and Quantumania bombing. Basically left the character DOA and they decided to pivot. When they landed on RDJ, it was because they were looking for a nostalgic splash.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Don't you also feel like they are a little late? Disney purchase of Fox completed in 2019. By 2018 they could have set up bread crumps for Doom and they introduce F4. I remember theories of F4 buying the old Avengers tower. Although I am happy they F4 are set in a different and contained universe. The pivoting from Kang really hurt the overall structure of the next phase. As you mentioned it does seem aimless.

Legally, Marvel couldn't touch the FOX stuff until the purchase completed. So no, LEGALLY they couldn't set up breadcrumbs for Doom, the F4, or anything in 2018. This isn't a matter of debate. This is a legal fact. They couldn't commission a piece of concept art, a script, hire a writer, director, discuss how it fits into a future film. Nothing. Not until the minute it closed. Not a moment sooner

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Legally, Marvel couldn't touch the FOX stuff until the purchase completed. So no, LEGALLY they couldn't set up breadcrumbs for Doom, the F4, or anything in 2018. This isn't a matter of debate. This is a legal fact. They couldn't commission a piece of concept art, a script, hire a writer, director, discuss how it fits into a future film. Nothing. Not until the minute it closed. Not a moment sooner

But surely by 2020 or 2021 they could have been doing something with him, yes? Once they knew the deal was going through with FOX they should’ve begun world-building then—in my humble opinion.

I just feel like Feige was just running through a list of B, C, D and E Marvel characters for like, 5 years straight saying ‘No one knows this superhero, let’s dump millions into it and give it its own show!” It felt like greed. To this day, I don’t know if any of those “side ventures”have really netted him or the brand anything. I mean…Agatha? Sure, maybe. She can be Franklin’s governess when the FF arrive in the 616. But Echo? Who asked for her? It all feels rudderless.

And now the Fantastic Four have finally shown up and the audience is worn out. They’re reaping the consequences of years of poor strategizing.

 

[Spider-Fan]

But surely by 2020 or 2021 they could have been doing something with him, yes? Once they knew the deal was going through with FOX they should’ve begun world-building then—in my humble opinion.

I just feel like Feige was just running through a list of B, C, D and E Marvel characters for like, 5 years straight saying ‘No one knows this superhero, let’s dump millions into it and give it its own show!” It felt like greed. To this day, I don’t know if any of those “side ventures”have really netted him or the brand anything. I mean…Agatha? Sure, maybe. But Echo? It feels rudderless.

And now the Fantastic Four have finally shown up and the audience is worn out. They’re reaping the consequences of years of poor strategizing.

Covid. Don't forget that Covid killed EVERYTHING industry wide. So that's then not being able to do anything until like Dec of 2019, and then they got slammed with Covid and could barely make movies they HAD been working on by then for YEARS. It's not just as simple as rush it. On top of that, Jon Watts left this project when he was tapped to do it. So who knows how much they decided to change when Shakman came on board

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Kang became an issue with the combination of the actor and Quantumania bombing. Basically left the character DOA and they decided to pivot. When they landed on RDJ, it was because they were looking for a nostalgic splash.

I just feel there are higher ranking A-List villains they could’ve gone for before enlisting Kang.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Covid. Don't forget that Covid killed EVERYTHING industry wide. So that's then not being able to do anything until like Dec of 2019, and then they got slammed with Covid and could barely make movies they HAD been working on by then for YEARS. It's not just as simple as rush it. On top of that, Jon Watts left this project when he was tapped to do it. So who knows how much they decided to change when Shakman came on board

Ah. Fair point. The Jon Watts thing is definitely a serious factor to consider. Shakman dropped Star Trek 4 for First Steps and Star Trek has been in development hell ever since.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I just feel there are higher ranking A-List villains they could’ve gone for before enlisting Kang.

But who really? If you don't have Doom cause the Fox deal hasn't closed. So who is a bigger fish to use than Kang that hasn't already been done by that point? Kang wasn't the issue IMO. Their execution of him was

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I just feel there are higher ranking A-List villains they could’ve gone for before enlisting Kang.

True. But I think the idea was to build around the multiverse which Kang fit perfectly. He also has ties to multiple characters, including the F4.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

But who really? If you don't have Doom cause the Fox deal hasn't closed. So who is a bigger fish to use than Kang that hasn't already been done by that point? Kang wasn't the issue IMO. Their execution of him was

Didn't the Fox deal close before Endgame came out? Around Captain Marvel's release?

 

[Spider-Fan]

Didn't the Fox deal close before Endgame came out? Around Captain Marvel's release?

March 20, 2019. So yes, right before Captain Marvel, you see correct. That said, you still had to have stuff in motion for 2020 and 2021 (which then was delayed and became your slate starting in 2021 and beyond) in front of cameras already or close. FF was starting from scratch. So even on the most optimistic oftimeliness, it would have been 3 years minimum if they had no delays to get it out.

Now, I do remember when WF came out, Doom was rumored to be teased. And I think that's very possible he was at some point. But then they ditched those plans, assuming they existed, for whatever reason. But even then, Kang was still their plan A

 

[DarthSkywalker]

March 20, 2019. So yes, right before Captain Marvel, you see correct. That said, you still had to have stuff in motion for 2020 and 2021 (which then was delayed and became your slate starting in 2021 and beyond) in front of cameras already or close. FF was starting from scratch. So even on the most optimistic oftimeliness, it would have been 3 years minimum if they had no delays to get it out.

Now, I do remember when WF came out, Doom was rumored to be teased. And I think that's very possible he was at some point. But then they ditched those, assuming they existed, for whatever reason. But even then, Kang was still their plan A

I think with Doom, he was going to be more a Loki. A villain that ties a lot of folks together, being a thorn in many sides. Then Jonathan Majors attacked.

 

[The Overlord]

I saw this video on this movie fell off after the second week:



I do think Marvel needs to ease up a bit. Deadpool made a billion dollars last year, and it was the only MCU movie that came out last year. They did 3 MCU movies this year, and they will kinda overstuffed the market. They definitely need to stop tying in the movies with the TV shows.

 

[Sithborg]

Also should have been more focused on cheaper characters. Like Netflix was. Don't spend 250 mil on a Falcon show. Spend like....a third of that on cheaper and still popular characters that can hold a series still. Like a lot of your street level characters. Or if you have a supporting character, use cheaper concepts. She-Hulk as a lawyer show was a good idea to do. Or I had the idea of at some point if you had Alicia Masters and Ben Grimm dating in a future movie, maybe do a Meet The Parents style show about Ben meeting the Puppet Master. A bit pricier cause of the CG, but less action set pieces and more focused on comedy. Stuff like that

Not even necessarily cheaper characters, but cheaper productions. This is a problem with all the streamers. They chase the prestige audience, pay prestige prices, largely in terms of actors, whos schedules and cost also sort of force this continued degradation of what a television season is. God, I feel lucky with 10 episodes now a days.

The changed the origin, Bruce getting lectured by Jen on her first world problems even though Bruce has lost more than she did. The writers of show the never read She-Hulk comics. Terrible CGI, horrible stunts (court room scene). The online trolls reflecting the narcissism of the writers room and also the timing when it came out.

I agree, the Netflix approach with Marvel was way more superior with more room for interpretation. Netflix Daredevil might just be the best Comicbook Show ever made - At least S1. i would also argue that the shows they picked to be created for D+ were bad choices in general. With the post Endgame momentum and all the money in the world you could have done so much more.

Ahh, one of those.

The shows they started with on Disney+ worked, because they were generally successful. How much of that was newness and pandemic viewings, we will never know.

 

[Nightshift]

Legally, Marvel couldn't touch the FOX stuff until the purchase completed. So no, LEGALLY they couldn't set up breadcrumbs for Doom, the F4, or anything in 2018. This isn't a matter of debate. This is a legal fact. They couldn't commission a piece of concept art, a script, hire a writer, director, discuss how it fits into a future film. Nothing. Not until the minute it closed. Not a moment sooner

I see, but don't you think they could have added something in so it would retro-actively be logical? Like saying the kid from IM2 was Peter Parker after the Sony/MS deal? I mean they could have done it in 2022 even in the Covid era though right? I'm just trying to say, they did have a lot of time. Even when Kang was still a thing. Maybe the pivot would have been smoother.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I have to say, for all the dooming and glooming, this is Marvel's best "debut" since Captain Marvel. And the only movies to beat it in the last three years will be GotG 3 and D&W. If China and South Korea hadn't cratered in general and Russia was on the board, both this and Superman would be looking at 10-20% higher gross. Which even on the low end would of made F4 a 600m flick and Superman 700m one.

 

[Nightshift]

Well, that goes back to my previous point: running to the far left or far right of your audience instead of running to the center. Kang is okay, but Dr. Doom is THE supreme antagonist of Marvel. So, why spend all of this time and money fleshing out Kang--only to drop the actor like a bad habit (yes, I know the reasons why--but they could've recast him: it's a variant story after all), and then [seemingly] shoehorn Doom in as a substitute? And then, to add insult to perceived injury, they cast Robert Downey Jr (which reads to me as a cash grab)?

Listen, I want to be wrong about all of this. I have zero insight to what they're doing. I'm coming at this as a lifelong "True Believer". But I felt like I could clearly see their plans leading up to Endgame. There was a structure--a genuinely thought-out storyline. Now? It just feels like a series of knee-jerk reactions. Granted, some of them are 100% justified--i.e., the unexpected tragic loss of Chadwick Boseman, the COVID-19 Pandemic, actors' controversies and legal issues, etc. But they've had control of The X-Men and The Fantastic Four for six years. I don't understand why they've taken this detour off the main road to what is low hanging fruit: run to the center where your fans are.

Indeed. Exactly, if they would have taken care of Doom like they did with Thanos the impact would have been better. They RDJ pivot came as it's been mentioned out of desperation. Kang himself is also rather a weak character for a two Avengers movies.

 

[Nightshift]

March 20, 2019. So yes, right before Captain Marvel, you see correct. That said, you still had to have stuff in motion for 2020 and 2021 (which then was delayed and became your slate starting in 2021 and beyond) in front of cameras already or close. FF was starting from scratch. So even on the most optimistic oftimeliness, it would have been 3 years minimum if they had no delays to get it out.

Now, I do remember when WF came out, Doom was rumored to be teased. And I think that's very possible he was at some point. But then they ditched those plans, assuming they existed, for whatever reason. But even then, Kang was still their plan A

yeah, wasn't an idea that Doom was trying to get his hands on vibranium? I agree, it had to have been their Plan A. Feige seems to love time travel as an instrument for story telling. Hence why he hired all those Rick and Morty writers and Jef Loveness even writing the Kang Dynasty at some point. I think that's where the problem was in the first place. Time travel movies are difficult and that half backed version in Endgame didn't work.

 

[Sithborg]

Well, that goes back to my previous point: running to the far left or far right of your audience instead of running to the center. Kang is okay, but Dr. Doom is THE supreme antagonist of Marvel. So, why spend all of this time and money fleshing out Kang--only to drop the actor like a bad habit (yes, I know the reasons why--but they could've recast him: it's a variant story after all), and then [seemingly] shoehorn Doom in as a substitute? And then, to add insult to perceived injury, they cast Robert Downey Jr (which reads to me as a cash grab)?

Listen, I want to be wrong about all of this. I have zero insight to what they're doing. I'm coming at this as a lifelong "True Believer". But I felt like I could clearly see their plans leading up to Endgame. There was a structure--a genuinely thought-out storyline. Now? It just feels like a series of knee-jerk reactions. Granted, some of them are 100% justified--i.e., the unexpected tragic loss of Chadwick Boseman, the COVID-19 Pandemic, actors' controversies and legal issues, etc. But they've had control of The X-Men and The Fantastic Four for six years. I don't understand why they've taken this detour off the main road to what is low hanging fruit: run to the center where your fans are.

Pretty certain there were a variety of production contracts with these properties that needed to be resolved. They had to figure out a way to resolve those contracts before moving forward.

 

[Boom]

If they had stuck to their guns, they could've wrapped up the Multiversal Saga with Kang and paved the way for a new ten-year saga with the Fantastic Four, X-Men, Inhumans, Midnight Sons, Defenders and Heroes for Hire with Doctor Doom as the big bad. Incredible that they allowed Quantumania of all things to **** everything up.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I see, but don't you think they could have added something in so it would retro-actively be logical? Like saying the kid from IM2 was Peter Parker after the Sony/MS deal? I mean they could have done it in 2022 even in the Covid era though right? I'm just trying to say, they did have a lot of time. Even when Kang was still a thing. Maybe the pivot would have been smoother.

For the FF? What retro active change could they have macd, and when would you have revealed that even if they did? Your strategy doesn't make sense