MCU Fight: Thor Vs. Captain Marvel

[BigThor]

I haven't heard that before. Are you sure?

It's the only logical explanation other than the Kree power inhibitor effects her durability as well. I just thought it was inhibiting her energy powers since I don't know how absorbing the energy device that gave her energy based powers would increase her actual physicals.

I mean, credit where it's due, she had the power limiter on when that happened. She also survived a fall from thousands of feet with barely a scratch whilst wearing the power limiter.

Flying through the Kree warship is by far her best durability feat once she's fully powered up but if your binary energy shield theory's correct then that changes things.

If I'm wrong I'd glady admit that, but I'd also admit that it's bad writing and nonsensical for an energy device to increase your physicals.

 

[flickchick85]

Who said Thor has more powerful blasts, I said they were even with Carol having the advantage in speed and frequent usage.




Wow almost two years later people still bring this up without properly using context? So are we going to blatantly ignore the fact that Thor was weakened to the point of barely being able to move by the obedience disk being used to throw the battle or what? Taiki specifically stated that the obedience disk being activated is a depowering device otherwise Thor wouldn't have been able to be defeated.

Also are we going to ignore the Nidavellir space forge strength feat which is the biggest strength feat in the MCU as well?

What's really going on here?

Lol, nothing's really going on here, BT, just good ol' fashioned speculation. And I forgot about the obedience disk in that scene, so I'll retract that statement. As for the space forge thing, he wasn't fighting any forces there. It was simply floating in space. I don't find that particular feat any more impressive than that massive missile catch/throw, but to each their own.

But if we're now going by what the filmmakers are saying, then they've stated outright on multiple occassions that Carol is more powerful, so there's that.

And regarding the power inhibitor, it obviously affected her strength, too. She would never have been able to catch that missile at the strength levels she had while wearing that thing, and it lines up with the comics too, that her strength is tied to her energy absorption levels.

 

[Stormborn]

Uh, yeah. We've been shown no limit to their power yet, and she has yet to even break a sweat.

If you're just going to speculate that she can do anything (i.e. hit harder than Hulk, fire blasts more powerful than the full force of a star) just because we haven't seen her limits yet, then there's probably not much point debating.

And the whole basis of her power is that she absorbs whatever energy she's hit with and fires it back with interest. So if Thor hits her with something powerful, it might knock her off her feet for a sec (like those Kree warships did), but then she returns it with an even more powerful blast. So there's no version of this where Thor has more powerful blasts than her.

MCU Carol doesn't have any feats absorbing energy (yet). Her powers come from the Space stone and she hasn't needed to absorb anything since. Whether she can absorb lightning summoned by the God of Thunder seems pretty questionable to me.

Anyway, if she's knocked off her feet then he'll have an opening to follow up with Stormbreaker.

Hulk knocked him out cold.

Let's put that in context, Grandmaster messed with the fight and used an obedience disk with sci-fi neurotoxin to weaken Thor so Hulk could KO him. Prior to that, Hulks best hits weren't doing anything.

None of those blocks of Thor's you presented were portrayed as feats of superspeed at all.

I'm just going to leave these here and let them speak for themselves:

And nothing I've seen from him suggests "master combatant." He triumphs because of his strength and powers. His technique has never appeared to be anything special.

Go argue with the MCU wiki I guess, "master combatant" is their wording. They've also listed "hammer mastery", "axe mastery", "sword mastery" and "spear mastery" amongst his abilities.

Anyway, there's no arguing Thor's used superior skill to deal with opponents powerful enough that he takes them seriously (Hulk, Destroyer) and that he's shown the weapon skills to compete with some incredibly skilled opponents (Loki, Hela) using hammers, spears and swords.

And I've never seen a feat of strength from Thor OR Hulk that matched that cruise-ship sized missile flying at full power towards her, and her catching and tossing it back. I've seen Hulk do similar things with SMALLER objects (quinjets, planes), but nothing on that scale.

Like I said on the last page, the rings of Nidavellir are far BIGGER than that missile. Here are the gifs again in case you missed them the first time:

 

[flickchick85]

If you're just going to speculate that she can do anything (i.e. hit harder than Hulk, fire blasts more powerful than the full force of a star) just because we haven't seen her limits yet, then there's probably not much point arguing with you.



MCU Carol doesn't have any feats absorbing energy (yet). Her powers come from the Space stone and she hasn't needed to absorb anything since. Whether she can absorb lightning summoned by the God of Thunder seems pretty questionable to me.

Anyway, if she's knocked off her feet then he'll have an opening to follow up with Stormbreaker.


Let's put that in context, Grandmaster messed with the fight and used an obedience disk with sci-fi neurotoxin to weaken Thor so Hulk could KO him. Prior to that, Hulks best hits weren't doing anything.



I'm just going to leave these here and let them speak for themselves:

Go argue with the MCU wiki I guess, "master combatant" is their wording. They've also listed "hammer mastery", "axe mastery", "sword mastery" and "spear mastery" amongst his abilities.

Anyway, there's no arguing Thor's used superior skill to deal with opponents powerful enough that he takes them seriously (Hulk, Destroyer) and that he's shown the weapon skills to compete with some incredibly skilled opponents (Loki, Hela) using hammers, spears and swords.



Like I said on the last page, the rings of Nidavellir are far BIGGER than that missile. Here are the gifs again in case you missed them the first time:

Again, FLOATING in space, aided by the rockets on Rocket's ship, versus a gigantic missile flying at full power against Carol in atmosphere. Not comparable, imo.

And as for the other stuff, I'm just going off what I've seen. Carol's listed as "Master Combatant" on the MCU wiki too. Yet Thor's fight choreography has been not remotely impressive to me compared to Carol's, and the only reason Yon-Rogg was able to beat her in their opening fight was because her strength was being inhibited. If Thor's strength was equally inhibited and he were fighting hand-to-hand with Yon-Rogg, Yon-Rogg would've kicked his ass too because he has shown no superior technique in as many movies we've seen him in.

Bottom line, what I've seen is someone who appears at least as strong as Hulk and Thor, with massively powerful blasts at least on par with Thor's lightning, but who seems faster and more agile at the end of the day, and whose base power suggests Thor's blasts would only make her stronger.

But you're right, there's probably no point in debating. It's all silly speculation anyway.

 

[THORin]

I could be wrong, but I literally just saw this before coming on here: didn’t Carol also absorb the powers of the SI when they were fighting? I don’t know if that’s even remotely true, but that’s what I had seen literally a few minutes ago.

And trust me, I think Thor and Carol are about equal in power, at least so far.

 

[flickchick85]

Her energy absorption was definitely in play. That's why the power across the whole ship was dimming, and that's why the power lines behind her were affected when she landed on Earth. So yeah, I'd say she was absorbing the Supreme Intelligence's power too, which is why the SI decided to peace-out rather than feed her more.

 

[BigThor]

Lol, nothing's really going on here, BT, just good ol' fashioned speculation. And I forgot about the obedience disk in that scene, so I'll retract that statement. As for the space forge thing, he wasn't fighting any forces there. It was simply floating in space. I don't find that particular feat any more impressive than that massive missile catch/throw, but to each their own.

There was clearly force at play, the Space Ring were frozen together by ice that was hundreds of feet thick. They had to break apart the ice by pulling the ring which means that also had to move the added weight of the ring itself AND there was clearly gravity at play evidenced by Thor being able to stand on the pace rings without floating away.

Not to mention Thor having to pull open and hold open the iris of the space force itself which gigantic, so how are you going to minimize that?

But if we're now going by what the filmmakers are saying, then they've stated outright on multiple occassions that Carol is more powerful, so there's that.

It's not just an empty statement like that one is though, it was clearly shown to weaken Thor and render him unconscious in the film. And which filmaker said this? Was is it the director of Captain Marvel? Feige? Or The Russos? If it's anyone but the Russos it's irrelevant and clearly used as new character hype.

To be honest I went into the movie expecting Captain Marvel to be FAR more powerful than she actual turned out to be due to those hyperbolic statements. They made it seems as if she would be far and away the most powerful MCU hero by miles and that it definitely not the case.

No matter who we believe is more powerful, I think we all can agree that it is debatable and fairly close which clearly debunks what they were trying to convey with those statements.

And regarding the power inhibitor, it obviously affected her strength, too. She would never have been able to catch that missile at the strength levels she had while wearing that thing, and it lines up with the comics too, that her strength is tied to her energy absorption levels.

You have a good point, but does it increase her durability is what we were discussing.

 

[Stormborn]

I could be wrong, but I literally just saw this before coming on here: didn’t Carol also absorb the powers of the SI when they were fighting? I don’t know if that’s even remotely true, but that’s what I had seen literally a few minutes ago.

And trust me, I think Thor and Carol are about equal in power, at least so far.

Her energy absorption was definitely in play. That's why the power across the whole ship was dimming, and that's why the power lines behind her were affected when she landed on Earth. So yeah, I'd say she was absorbing the Supreme Intelligence's power too, which is why the SI decided to peace-out rather than feed her more.

My original guess was that the Supreme Intelligence just drew on all the ships power to try and keep Carol contained. I like the theory that it was Carol sub-consciously draining the power to weaken the SI though.

Hopefully she'll explicitly gain her energy absorption powers in a later film. It's a cool power set and it sets her apart from Vision, Superman etc.

 

[flickchick85]

there was clearly force at play, the Space Ring were frozen together by ice that was hundreds of feet thick. They had to break apart the ice by pulling the ring which means that also had to move the added weight of the ring itself AND there was clearly gravity at play evidenced by Thor being able to stand on the pace rings without floating away.

Not to mention Thor having to pull open and hold open the iris of the space force itself which gigantic, so how are you going to minimize that?

I'm not trying to minimize anything. I just don't think it's more impressive than what Carol did. *shrugs*

It's not just an empty statement like that one is though, it was clearly shown to weaken Thor and render him unconscious in the film. And which filmaker said this? Was is it the director of Captain Marvel? Feige? Or The Russos? If it's anyone but the Russos it's irrelevant and clearly used as new character hype.

To be honest I went into the movie expecting Captain Marvel to be FAR more powerful than she actual turned out to be due to those hyperbolic statements. They made it seems as if she would be far and away the most powerful MCU hero by miles and that it definitely not the case.

No matter who we believe is more powerful, I think we all can agree that it is debatable and fairly close which clearly debunks what they were trying to convey with those statements.

Why is "anybody but the Russo's" input irrelevant? Are we talking about Endgame, or the MCU in general? The Russos are the guys who nerfed Vision, Scarlet Witch and Hulk in the same movie in order to give less powerful characters their "hero moments," so their input on this is less valuable to me than Captain Marvel's filmmakers and Kevin Feige, who, last I checked, was the guy in charge of the MCU as a whole, and he's been pretty insistent on his stance here. But yes, I agree it's obviously close, at any rate.

I love the Russos, btw. But that doesn't mean I agree with their treatment of all the characters, as I think Thor and Strange are the only powerful heroes they did justice to in IW.

You have a good point, but does it increase her durability is what we were discussing.

It would have to considering the things we saw her do once she was freed. She full-bodied a warship like it was fun, and leaving her with no scratches. Whereas, when she still had the inhibitor on, a scuffle with "Talos' best men" left her with a nosebleed (or a bloody lip, can't remember which). So she definitely got a hell of a lot more durable once she was freed.

 

[Web-Head]

This battle probably would've been better suited after Endgame.

 

[BigThor]

This battle probably would've been better suited after Endgame.

They can have a rematch once Endgame is out, that was too long for me to wait.

 

[BigThor]

I'm not trying to minimize anything. I just don't think it's more impressive than what Carol did. *shrugs*

Okay

Why is "anybody but the Russo's" input irrelevant? Are we talking about Endgame, or the MCU in general? The Russos are the guys who nerfed Vision, Scarlet Witch and Hulk in the same movie in order to give less powerful characters their "hero moments," so their input on this is less valuable to me than Captain Marvel's filmmakers and Kevin Feige, who, last I checked, was the guy in charge of the MCU as a whole, and he's been pretty insistent on his stance here. But yes, I agree it's obviously close, at any rate.

I love the Russos, btw. But that doesn't mean I agree with their treatment of all the characters, as I think Thor and Strange are the only powerful heroes they did justice to in IW.

Well because they are the only directors who handle both characters unlike Captain Marvel's director who would clearly be biased to their character. Also Kevin Feige says a lot of things, A LOT OF THINGS that are not really true he's like the Hollywood version of Dana White the president of the UFC.

It would have to considering the things we saw her do once she was freed. She full-bodied a warship like it was fun, and leaving her with no scratches. Whereas, when she still had the inhibitor on, a scuffle with "Talos' best men" left her with a nosebleed (or a bloody lip, can't remember which). So she definitely got a hell of a lot more durable once she was freed.

Unless she was using an energy shield in her binary form, at any rate if it is true it certainly doesn't make sense.

 

[flickchick85]

Well because they are the only directors who handle both characters unlike Captain Marvel's director who would clearly be biased to their character. Also Kevin Feige says a lot of things, A LOT OF THINGS that are not really true he's like the Hollywood version of Dana White the president of the UFC.

Doesn't make the things he says any less "true" than them. I mean, when it comes to fictional characters, lol.

Unless she was using an energy shield in her binary form, at any rate if it is true it certainly doesn't make sense.

I mean it's how it's always been in the comics and makes no less sense than any other fantasy superhero powers, but ok.

 

[FlareKnight]

First, I'm just putting them both in Transcendent Tier. I think they are definitely meant to be there.

I'd say it's pretty close, but that I'd give the edge to Thor. Partly it is just having seen more of what he's capable of in a variety of situations. With Captain Marvel it is tricky. In terms of fighting individuals she hasn't faced anyone particularly strong. More or less fighting space troops that I'd honestly say the Guardians could handle in a brawl. Someone at the tier I think both Captain Marvel and Thor are at...that's just not very tough for either. The space battle was cool and showed a bit more of what she could do. Now maybe my memory is off, but I do think Thor was busting through the landing craft Thanos' troops were using to attack Wakanda and I think he could basically do the same thing Captain Marvel did in space.

It's really tight and may be easier to figure out once we see Endgame. Once big thing though was Thor's attack with Stormbreaker overpowering (partly with surprise) the completed Infinity Gauntlet. That's really darn powerful. If we can see something similar with Captain Marvel that could be a key comparison point.

Going into Captain Marvel I thought it'd be a blowout for Captain Marvel. Feige and such were hyping her up. But...while she was definitely powerful I didn't think she shockingly eclipsed the strongest Avengers. I feel they might be really trying to hype her up while the writers don't intend to go that far.

Regardless they are both crazy powerful, but I give the edge to Thor. He's just done more things that are more impressive to this point. With more appearances from Captain Marvel that view may change. But right now we do have a guy who survived the energy of a freaking star, freed up the forge which required insane strength, put up a strong fight against Hela despite not having a weapon, and with a weapon managing to knock down a powerhouse like Thanos while he used the gauntlet. That's pretty top tier. I just don't think fighting off some guys I think Drax could handle and busting up some spaceships is impressive enough to say she's more powerful than Thor.

 

[BigThor]

Doesn't make the things he says any less "true" than them. I mean, when it comes to fictional characters, lol.


I mean it's how it's always been in the comics and makes no less sense than any other fantasy superhero powers, but ok.

Oh okay

My original guess was that the Supreme Intelligence just drew on all the ships power to try and keep Carol contained. I like the theory that it was Carol sub-consciously draining the power to weaken the SI though.

Hopefully she'll explicitly gain her energy absorption powers in a later film. It's a cool power set and it sets her apart from Vision, Superman etc.

I agree, her being able to absorb energy is quite cool and sets her apart from other heroes of her power level.

My original guess was that the Supreme Intelligence just drew on all the ships power to try and keep Carol contained. I like the theory that it was Carol sub-consciously draining the power to weaken the SI though.

Hopefully she'll explicitly gain her energy absorption powers in a later film. It's a cool power set and it sets her apart from Vision, Superman etc.

I agree, her being able to absorb

First, I'm just putting them both in Transcendent Tier. I think they are definitely meant to be there.

I'd say it's pretty close, but that I'd give the edge to Thor. Partly it is just having seen more of what he's capable of in a variety of situations. With Captain Marvel it is tricky. In terms of fighting individuals she hasn't faced anyone particularly strong. More or less fighting space troops that I'd honestly say the Guardians could handle in a brawl. Someone at the tier I think both Captain Marvel and Thor are at...that's just not very tough for either. The space battle was cool and showed a bit more of what she could do. Now maybe my memory is off, but I do think Thor was busting through the landing craft Thanos' troops were using to attack Wakanda and I think he could basically do the same thing Captain Marvel did in space.

It's really tight and may be easier to figure out once we see Endgame. Once big thing though was Thor's attack with Stormbreaker overpowering (partly with surprise) the completed Infinity Gauntlet. That's really darn powerful. If we can see something similar with Captain Marvel that could be a key comparison point.

Going into Captain Marvel I thought it'd be a blowout for Captain Marvel. Feige and such were hyping her up. But...while she was definitely powerful I didn't think she shockingly eclipsed the strongest Avengers. I feel they might be really trying to hype her up while the writers don't intend to go that far.

Regardless they are both crazy powerful, but I give the edge to Thor. He's just done more things that are more impressive to this point. With more appearances from Captain Marvel that view may change. But right now we do have a guy who survived the energy of a freaking star, freed up the forge which required insane strength, put up a strong fight against Hela despite not having a weapon, and with a weapon managing to knock down a powerhouse like Thanos while he used the gauntlet. That's pretty top tier. I just don't think fighting off some guys I think Drax could handle and busting up some spaceships is impressive enough to say she's more powerful than Thor.

Same here, it was a total over sell like I predicted and was hassled for it.

 

[Luigi]

Thor

Honestly, we haven't seen Carol truly struggle against an opponent whilst in her binary form. At this moment, have to go with Thor since we've seen greater durability feats and not to mention that Stormbreaker is an OP weapon. Also happy to see new people joining these discussions.

They can have a rematch once Endgame is out, that was too long for me to wait.

I'm very much looking forward to that rematch.

 

[Stormborn]

Thor's fight choreography has been not remotely impressive to me compared to Carol's, and the only reason Yon-Rogg was able to beat her in their opening fight was because her strength was being inhibited. If Thor's strength was equally inhibited and he were fighting hand-to-hand with Yon-Rogg, Yon-Rogg would've kicked his ass too because he has shown no superior technique in as many movies we've seen him in.

I agree the choreography wasn't great in Thor 1 but Thor tearing through a dozen shield agents Phil Coulson calls "some of the most highly trained professionals in the world" is still impressive.

If choreography's what you're into though then look at the fights with Loki (Avengers), Hulk (Ragnarok) and Hela (Ragnarok). Thor displayed some serious skill.

Hela was insanely skilled, just look at the scene where she single handedly wipes out the Asgardian army for proof of that. And Thor fought her one on one in the throne room for about a minute and would've killed her with a spear wound if it wasn't for her insane healing factor. Then he fought her again on the bifrost and forced her onto the backfoot multiple times once he unlocked his power.

Thor isn't the most skilled martial artist in the MCU but IMO his fights against Hela are better skill feats than Carol's fights against Yon Rogg.

They can have a rematch once Endgame is out, that was too long for me to wait.

If Carol loses this, how about Captain Marvel vs Hela next?

 

[HammerDown]

After AEG we should really get a better understanding of their level.
I see Thor and CM fighting side by side and that could be a great way to compare them. I also think we will be able to see who is able to do what, against powerful foes which will also help to differentiate them...

Right now, the most powerful being Thor has faced was Thanos with a fully assembled infinity gauntlet and we where able to see what Thor was capable of doing... We also saw insane feats of durability in IW coupled with insane attacking feats with Stormbreaker.

Right now i still feel King Thor is a level above the rest. In AEG i think CM will have massive feats which will further boost her level. As will Hulk, i think Professor Hulk will jump up in the list too...

 

[Shuri]

Carol easily, but fans won't admit it. In binary form, she has light speed, durability and super strength. Thor lightening bolts won't even affect her, she'll just go through them. So far, Carol is unstoppable, but we might learn more of her weakness in the future.

 

[jolldan]

I got to go with the god of thunder here, CM is likely in the top 3 MCU heroes power wise but I haven't really seen enough that makes me think she could

1. Match Thor's overall strength
2. Compete with Thor in terms of his insane durability
3. Avoid taking at least one good shot from Stormbreaker

 

[Spider-Fan]

Comics: Thor wins.
MCU: Captain Marvel wins. And this is an MCU poll, so...yeah.

MCU Carol seems to have her Binary powers (which includes light-speed) already, and at the end of the day, whatever Thor hits her with, she can return with interest. I guess I’d put them both in the Transcendent Tier.

This is my line of thinking as well.

 

[HammerDown]

Also Captain Marvel having her "Binary" status isn't that like having a different/upgraded version of the character?
Isn't it Binary her most powerful form?

Because Thor for example has also different "status", each one making him different and/or even more powerful. We have Young Thor, Unworthy Thor, Thor Odinson and right now in the MCU we seem to have King Thor... but there's also Warrior Madness Thor, Old King Thor, Rune King Thor...

Not saying that these versions will show up but still, if the character of Thor isn't done with the MCU post AEG and he returns in the future as what would be Old King Thor then that should settle the discussion. And sure the MCU isn't really the comics but OKT's status is not something to be messed with.

 

[BigThor]

Wow these votes are getting very one sided now.

 

[Batmannerism]

This battle probably would've been better suited after Endgame.

Yup. Totally agree. Too soon. The only comment I'd like to make is that Thor has much bigger combat durability feats. We don't see CM take any big hits or blasts from anything other than Jude Law. In comparison we've seen Thor fight Hulk , Hela, Kurse, Malekith with the reality stone and other serious powerhouse opponents.

We've seen Thor take an absolute beating from Kurse, nearly get killed by Hela and we can reasonably assume that Thanos and the Black Order really worked him over.

I like that, because it shows that the character has some grit, he takes a pounding and then finds the courage to get up again.

As for the Rings thing, well the physics of that are pretty debatable, I see it as a durability feat because Thor acts as an anchor. And in space everything is weightless, although there appeared to be gravity when Thor jumped off the pod onto the ring. Who knows ?

Honestly, I don't feel like we saw CM take anywhere near that level of challenge - but she's only had one film whereas Thor has been in 6.


I feel in my gut that Thor would win, unless he was stupid and held back ( or didn't go for the head again) but really....too soon dude, too soon. I also believe that Thor is a much more skilled combatant having 1000+ years of experience but also having faced very skilled opponents ( particularly Hela) and he completely outclassed Hulk in hand to hand skill - Carol tended to overwhelm her opponents with raw power and strength, and the first Yon Rogg fight wasn t all that impressive , her movements were very stiff.A Take away Carol' s powers and Widow or Okoye would make short work of her.

Why don't we revisit this after Endgame ?

 

[Batmannerism]

If Carol loses this, how about Captain Marvel vs Hela next?

Given that CM has zero feats vs edged weapons and Hela could one-shot even hero asgardians I'm giving that to Hela.
To fast and too deadly. Plus physically stronger than Thor and virtually unkillable. I can see CM dodging or deflecting Hela's blades for a while but eventually she's going to get speared.

IMO Hela beats almost anyone in the MCU except maybe Stormbreaker Thor and Thanos with at least 2 infinity stones and maybe Strange if he's allowed to use the time stone.

CM's raw power let her blast through the Kree warship, but Hela could easily take one out with a big necro spear ( like she tried to do with Surtur).

What about Hela vs Ego ?