MCU: Phase II - Part 1

[Donnie Darko]

I definitely don't want the MCU to be confined to just Avengers. I am all for them branching out. I just don't want them all to have to tie together in the next Avengers movie. Like make a Daredevil or Dr Strange or whoever movie, but don't stick to the midset of "everything that happens in this movie feeds into Avengers part whatever." That is one of my fears with the GotG movie. I am afraid they are going to have to get beaten up by Thanos in their own movie just so Avengers can defeat him in Avengers 2 or 3.

 

[metaphysician]

Avengers needs to splinter from SHIELD at some point.

Just to pose a question: why?

 

[DrCosmic]

Just to pose a question: why?

I wouldn't say needs, but I'd definitely be for it:

A) It'd be cool/fun/interesting in a Civil War kinda way, without turning Tony into a *****e
B) They've laid the seeds for it with the justified mistrust of Fury and Tony turning Stark Tower into Avengers tower

 

[DrCosmic]

I definitely don't want the MCU to be confined to just Avengers. I am all for them branching out. I just don't want them all to have to tie together in the next Avengers movie. Like make a Daredevil or Dr Strange or whoever movie, but don't stick to the midset of "everything that happens in this movie feeds into Avengers part whatever." That is one of my fears with the GotG movie. I am afraid they are going to have to get beaten up by Thanos in their own movie just so Avengers can defeat him in Avengers 2 or 3.

I think people are expecting too much of the MCU. They've built up to the Avengers, which is the thing that validates the entire operation. It's all one studio which hasn't been able to make more than two films a year, and dreams of one day making three a year, maybe, if nothing goes wrong. They're not going to be able to represent the whole MCU, unless you want five years between sequels for any given franchise. They might have a 'distraction' like GotG or Ant-Man, but it will, in some way, help build hype for the cash cow property: Avengers.

What you have as a fear, I have as a pretty certain expectation. If Thanos is done like Loki was in Thor he'd be less intimidating when he comes to Earth. He has to win in a meaningful way, I think. It'll be interesting to know the fates of the members of the GotG at movie's end.

 

[marcvader]

Just to pose a question: why?

Cause I prefer the Avengers not answer to anyone and be their own private organization as they always were for over 40 some odd years. I like for them to work alongside SHIELD at some times or not trust them at others. I like that some governments may be weary of them and others not. Just more interesting to me than them being pseudo arm of something else. Like Avengers presented by SHIELD.!

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Just to pose a question: why?

Because they should be able to make decisions themselves

 

[Lorus]

I'm almost 100% sure that we were supposed to see the Avengers as independent of SHIELD at the end of the film. Cap, Widow and Hawkeye taking the quinjet without permission, Stark, Thor and Banner all converging of their own accord on Stark Tower and Fury not tracking their whereabouts were likely intended to get this across. Not to mention Fury's last words to Hill being indicative of their own independence. I'm certain there's an interview with Whedon in which he discusses Fury and he mentions him as a father figure whose children have made their own way in the world.

I wouldn't be remotely surprised if they started Avengers 2 completely separate from SHIELD and made no comment about it. I think the split has occurred, just without the fanfare some might have expected/wanted.

 

[DrCosmic]

Hmmm... that's possibly how they'll start, but I think there'll still be conflict there, because SHIELD will still want/claim jurisdiction/oversight over the Avengers, and that will be a problem. When all but the 'A' fell off of Stark Tower, and you see Tony and Pepper remodeling the place, you know it's gonna be Avengers Tower, but there's too much story there... the argument in the lab was too good to leave it without comment.

 

[Donnie Darko]

I think people are expecting too much of the MCU. They've built up to the Avengers, which is the thing that validates the entire operation. It's all one studio which hasn't been able to make more than two films a year, and dreams of one day making three a year, maybe, if nothing goes wrong. They're not going to be able to represent the whole MCU, unless you want five years between sequels for any given franchise. They might have a 'distraction' like GotG or Ant-Man, but it will, in some way, help build hype for the cash cow property: Avengers.

What you have as a fear, I have as a pretty certain expectation. If Thanos is done like Loki was in Thor he'd be less intimidating when he comes to Earth. He has to win in a meaningful way, I think. It'll be interesting to know the fates of the members of the GotG at movie's end.

I am also fine with all of the movies leading into Avengers IF those movies are about Avengers (and no, although Strange and DD are technically Avengers now, I don't want them to be Avengers in the movies, at least not for a long, long time). I know GotG will lead into Avengers somehow, but even though I can't claim to be a big Guardians fan, I don't want to see them get their ass beat in their own movie just to serve the greater good.

 

[Adamantium]

Does anybody have a good link that can give me the best summary or backstory of GotG?

 

[DrCosmic]

Google

Lol, jk... the wiki is your friend

 

[Lorus]

Hmmm... that's possibly how they'll start, but I think there'll still be conflict there, because SHIELD will still want/claim jurisdiction/oversight over the Avengers, and that will be a problem. When all but the 'A' fell off of Stark Tower, and you see Tony and Pepper remodeling the place, you know it's gonna be Avengers Tower, but there's too much story there... the argument in the lab was too good to leave it without comment.

I agree that SHIELD will be involved to some degree in the sequel, but I think it's likely to be in an auxiliary capacity, as in the comics, or in a directly hostile manner. I maintain though that the actual split between the team and SHIELD has occurred and whatever role SHIELD does play, they will do so from an initial position of knowing the Avengers are not 'their team'. The argument in the lab was the comment, it was sowing the seeds of mistrust and dissent which facilitated the split so I wouldn't expect any further elaboration on that aspect.

 

[DrCosmic]

Direct hostility would be a pretty direct elaboration on the split, i think, and I have a hard time seeing them being rogue not come up with the World Security Council. I suspect the Avengers' differences with SHIELD will be a subplot of similar size and importance as it was in Avengers 1. If this is 'the dark second act' they're going to go for all the angst there is, and breaking that relationship with SHIELD painfully is rife with angst.

 

[metaphysician]

Given that, IIRC, its already been said that the Cap movie will involve SHIELD, I suspect that none of the people actually *affiliated* with SHIELD will be "on the run". I think you guys are taking an overly extreme view on the relationship between the Avengers and SHIELD. There's a *lot* of room between "stereotypical thoughtless soldiers for the man" and "total independent agents who raise the middle finger to the man."

 

[Lorus]

Given that, IIRC, its already been said that the Cap movie will involve SHIELD, I suspect that none of the people actually *affiliated* with SHIELD will be "on the run". I think you guys are taking an overly extreme view on the relationship between the Avengers and SHIELD. There's a *lot* of room between "stereotypical thoughtless soldiers for the man" and "total independent agents who raise the middle finger to the man."

Oh certainly. When people raise the issue of the Avengers splitting from SHIELD though I was assuming they were referring to the team no longer being, essentially, a government strike force as they were in the Ultimates 2. In that respect, I think the split has occurred. I appreciate that there are individual nuances though for every character in terms of their relationship with SHIELD.

Direct hostility would be a pretty direct elaboration on the split, i think, and I have a hard time seeing them being rogue not come up with the World Security Council. I suspect the Avengers' differences with SHIELD will be a subplot of similar size and importance as it was in Avengers 1. If this is 'the dark second act' they're going to go for all the angst there is, and breaking that relationship with SHIELD painfully is rife with angst.

I fear I'm not communicating very well. All I'm really trying to assert is that I think the Avengers are now an independent party from SHIELD. That is the current status quo, I believe, and thus will be where Avengers 2 picks off. The consequences of that will probably be explored but I don't think we'll the team make an active decision to split in the sequel because they already have.

 

[DrCosmic]

I fear I'm not communicating very well. All I'm really trying to assert is that I think the Avengers are now an independent party from SHIELD. That is the current status quo, I believe, and thus will be where Avengers 2 picks off. The consequences of that will probably be explored but I don't think we'll the team make an active decision to split in the sequel because they already have.

Ah, I get it now, interesting. I agree for the most part, it's a little in the air though how much each person considers themselves an 'Avenger' and what that means to them. It's not a coherent entity yet... the Avengers for them was an event which came and went, and apparently only Fury is aware that it will happen again. So when they come back together, will they be part of SHIELD? Probably not, since SHIELD won't bring them together. Cap, however, will likely be a part of SHIELD, so he might actually have that struggle of allegiance.

 

[Hyde]

My favourite part of the inter connectivity between the movies in Phase 1 was how the Tesseract was used. An Asgardian artefact uncovered and used by the Red Skull and HYDRA and then kept by SHIELD until present day? That's awesome.

What do you think it'll be in Phase 2? I think Iron Man 3 and Cap 2 will be connected in a few ways, and MAYBE Ant-Man if it's set in modern day rather than the 60's. If it is modern day, then I expect Radioactive Man to be the villain, following from IM3.

If it's set in the 60's, then I think it would be cool to have an Infinity Gem - preferably the Time Gem - to be the MacGuffin of Phase 2. This will be the thing 'everybody wants' that the GOTG have in their movie, and there will probably be some sort of hint in Thor: TDW that it's around and Thanos is after it.

To stop Thanos getting the Gem, the Guardians will send it back in time to Earth in the 60's where it falls into the hands of Hank Pym and SHIELD. Upon testing on it, it teleports Pym and Janet into present day, but the Gem is still stuck in the past.

It would allow for another period MCU movie, and could feature appearances from Howard Stark, Nick Fury and show the formation of SHIELD.

Plus then in A2 he and Cap could become buddies as they're both men out of time.

Maybe since Wang Xiuxi (however you spell it) is in his 60's/70's in IM3 we'll see a younger version of him in Ant-Man, where he is Radioactive Man and is cured by the end?

I literally came up with this 5 minutes ago.

 

[Hyde]

If Ant-Man was set in the 60's then you could set the 1969 Moon Landing as the backdrop (similar to how the Cuban Missile Crisis was used in First Class) and have the reason for going to the Moon being they think they've found people living there, AKA Inhumans.

 

[babykhris]

It wouldn't be smart to have Ant Man set in the 60s. Most people want him in Avengers 2.

 

[marcvader]

It's mostly just people interested in the character. The GA has no clue.

 

[spideymouse]

My favourite part of the inter connectivity between the movies in Phase 1 was how the Tesseract was used. An Asgardian artefact uncovered and used by the Red Skull and HYDRA and then kept by SHIELD until present day? That's awesome.

What do you think it'll be in Phase 2? I think Iron Man 3 and Cap 2 will be connected in a few ways, and MAYBE Ant-Man if it's set in modern day rather than the 60's. If it is modern day, then I expect Radioactive Man to be the villain, following from IM3.

If it's set in the 60's, then I think it would be cool to have an Infinity Gem - preferably the Time Gem - to be the MacGuffin of Phase 2. This will be the thing 'everybody wants' that the GOTG have in their movie, and there will probably be some sort of hint in Thor: TDW that it's around and Thanos is after it.

To stop Thanos getting the Gem, the Guardians will send it back in time to Earth in the 60's where it falls into the hands of Hank Pym and SHIELD. Upon testing on it, it teleports Pym and Janet into present day, but the Gem is still stuck in the past.

It would allow for another period MCU movie, and could feature appearances from Howard Stark, Nick Fury and show the formation of SHIELD.

Plus then in A2 he and Cap could become buddies as they're both men out of time.

Maybe since Wang Xiuxi (however you spell it) is in his 60's/70's in IM3 we'll see a younger version of him in Ant-Man, where he is Radioactive Man and is cured by the end?

I literally came up with this 5 minutes ago.

Yeah, kind of doubt Wright would work on a project that is so closely connected with the rest of the MCU, especially since for all we know he's working on a script that is still based on some of the elements he discussed with SHH before the MCU was even formed.

Your ideas are cool, but I just don't see these Phase II movies, especially GOTG and Ant-Man, being that interconnected. I could be wrong.

 

[Dark Raven]

My favourite part of the inter connectivity between the movies in Phase 1 was how the Tesseract was used. An Asgardian artefact uncovered and used by the Red Skull and HYDRA and then kept by SHIELD until present day? That's awesome.

What do you think it'll be in Phase 2? I think Iron Man 3 and Cap 2 will be connected in a few ways, and MAYBE Ant-Man if it's set in modern day rather than the 60's. If it is modern day, then I expect Radioactive Man to be the villain, following from IM3.

If it's set in the 60's, then I think it would be cool to have an Infinity Gem - preferably the Time Gem - to be the MacGuffin of Phase 2. This will be the thing 'everybody wants' that the GOTG have in their movie, and there will probably be some sort of hint in Thor: TDW that it's around and Thanos is after it.

To stop Thanos getting the Gem, the Guardians will send it back in time to Earth in the 60's where it falls into the hands of Hank Pym and SHIELD. Upon testing on it, it teleports Pym and Janet into present day, but the Gem is still stuck in the past.

It would allow for another period MCU movie, and could feature appearances from Howard Stark, Nick Fury and show the formation of SHIELD.

Plus then in A2 he and Cap could become buddies as they're both men out of time.

Maybe since Wang Xiuxi (however you spell it) is in his 60's/70's in IM3 we'll see a younger version of him in Ant-Man, where he is Radioactive Man and is cured by the end?

I literally came up with this 5 minutes ago.

Since his name is Chen Lu, then it's not even a matter of how you spell it but getting his name right. I didn't even know who you were talking about until you mentioned Radioactive Man. I thought you meant Wong Chu (who is the IM villain from Tales of Suspense #39) but he doesn't even exist in the MCU as he was replaced by Rasa (who was an Afghan terrorist).

 

[Hyde]

All I could remember was the actor behind him lol. And yes, I did mean Chen Lu.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

just realized that despite 50+ years of content for each franchise, Extremis, Winter Soldier and GotG (at least the film in question) are from the last 5-10 years of comics. fascinating.

 

[spideymouse]

just realized that despite 50+ years of content for each franchise, Extremis, Winter Soldier and GotG (at least the film in question) are from the last 5-10 years of comics. fascinating.

Yeah, I was thinking about that recently, too. Though one could say that the whole past 15 years of Marvel superhero movies have been informed somewhat by recent comics, especially the Ultimate universe. That includes X-Men and Spider-Man, too.