Marvel Films MCU Phase IV!

[Bayne]

WandaVision and FatWS are about Wanda and Sam becoming Scarlet Witch and Captain America. These are pretty important stories for the future and I'm happy they took time with the D+ shows to develop them.

But some of their projects do make me question. I mean, sorry for my ignorant comicbook ass but I've never heard of Echo. And while I'm not opposed to her appearing in the MCU, is it really necessary for every character to have their own show/movie? Wouldn't been better to give Daredevil a show instead?

I loved Hahn as Agatha Harkness. She stole the show. But does she need her own show?

When it comes to the movies, Black Widow feels like too little too late. And it's set in the past. Shang Chi and Eternals are brand new characters with no connections with previously established MCU characters so far. So because they are brand new franchise with no connections it might give a feeling of not being part of the main narrative... maybe? I mean, when you look at NWH, MoM and WandaVision, they are connected. Love and Thunder is connected to Guardians and continuing what we saw previously. The Marvels has connections with WandaVision and Miss Marvel. So those are movies that give, to me a least, a bigger sense of that serialized narrative that is part of the MCU.

Anyway... there are some projects that make me question them.

I don't think doing only what 'needs' to be done for the sake of the wider narrative is at all the point of the D+ series. For some of them, that is the way D+ will be useful. For others, it's just the opportunity to tell fun little stories in the MCU (and for Disney to tempt Marvel fans into keeping their D+ subscription). I don't think there's anything wrong with that per se. But you can't go into it expecting every D+ project to be super important to the MCU as a whole, because you will be disappointed.

As for connections, that complaint just doesn't make any sense. Look at almost everything in phase 1, then at Guardians 1 and Ant-man in phase 2, then at Dr. Strange, Captain Marvel and Black Panther in phase 3. Marvel origin stories are always far less connected than the other Marvel movies. The only real exception to that is Spider-man Homecoming, which happened for licensing reasons. Shang-Chi and the Eternals will grow into more and more connections over time, just like every other MCU character has.

 

[Venom 1988]

WandaVision and FatWS are about Wanda and Sam becoming Scarlet Witch and Captain America. These are pretty important stories for the future and I'm happy they took time with the D+ shows to develop them.

But some of their projects do make me question. I mean, sorry for my ignorant comicbook ass but I've never heard of Echo. And while I'm not opposed to her appearing in the MCU, is it really necessary for every character to have their own show/movie? Wouldn't been better to give Daredevil a show instead?

I loved Hahn as Agatha Harkness. She stole the show. But does she need her own show?

When it comes to the movies, Black Widow feels like too little too late. And it's set in the past. Shang Chi and Eternals are brand new characters with no connections with previously established MCU characters so far. So because they are brand new franchise with no connections it might give a feeling of not being part of the main narrative... maybe? I mean, when you look at NWH, MoM and WandaVision, they are connected. Love and Thunder is connected to Guardians and continuing what we saw previously. The Marvels has connections with WandaVision and Miss Marvel. So those are movies that give, to me a least, a bigger sense of that serialized narrative that is part of the MCU.

Anyway... there are some projects that make me question them.

Isn't that part of the point of Disney +? To give a spotlight to characters or concepts that they can't really cover in the movies. I don't see the issue with giving some of these characters little mini series to explore different types of stories.

 

[psylockolussus]

WandaVision and FatWS are about Wanda and Sam becoming Scarlet Witch and Captain America. These are pretty important stories for the future and I'm happy they took time with the D+ shows to develop them.

But some of their projects do make me question. I mean, sorry for my ignorant comicbook ass but I've never heard of Echo. And while I'm not opposed to her appearing in the MCU, is it really necessary for every character to have their own show/movie? Wouldn't been better to give Daredevil a show instead?

I loved Hahn as Agatha Harkness. She stole the show. But does she need her own show?

When it comes to the movies, Black Widow feels like too little too late. And it's set in the past. Shang Chi and Eternals are brand new characters with no connections with previously established MCU characters so far. So because they are brand new franchise with no connections it might give a feeling of not being part of the main narrative... maybe? I mean, when you look at NWH, MoM and WandaVision, they are connected. Love and Thunder is connected to Guardians and continuing what we saw previously. The Marvels has connections with WandaVision and Miss Marvel. So those are movies that give, to me a least, a bigger sense of that serialized narrative that is part of the MCU.

Anyway... there are some projects that make me question them.

A lot of these shows IMO were created first and foremost to serve as Disney+ Originals, original contents to persuade people to subscribe to Disney+. If Disney didn't eXpand their empire to streaming services, I doubt a Loki show would even eXist especially after the character was killed in Infinity War.

Now time will tell if all of these shows would have a bearing to the over-all MCU. All films from phase 1 to 3 served their purpose in the Infinity Saga.

 

[psylockolussus]

Shang Chi and Eternals are brand new characters with no connections with previously established MCU characters so far. So because they are brand new franchise with no connections it might give a feeling of not being part of the main narrative... maybe? I mean, when you look at NWH, MoM and WandaVision, they are connected. Love and Thunder is connected to Guardians and continuing what we saw previously. The Marvels has connections with WandaVision and Miss Marvel. So those are movies that give, to me a least, a bigger sense of that serialized narrative that is part of the MCU.

This isnt actually

Spoiler

true. Shang-Chi has appearances from Capt. Marvel, Hulk, Abomination, Trevor and Wong. I'm assuming you haven't seen the film? Wong is in the trailers. This is not different from the first film of Ant-Man, Gotg, Capt. Marvel and Dr. Strange.

Blade has a voice cameo in Eternals. Blade hasn't debuted before but still, its connected to the future of the mcu.

While they could also launch films for other characters without including established MCU characters - as long as they aren't ignored in the long run.

 

[Heretic]

One thing I find a bit of an issue is Marvel's lack of engaging new lead characters. Shang-Chi is my favorite movie of the year...but I didn't find the lead actor to be very charismatic. Captain Marvel wasn't written to be very charming...nor is Dr Strange, really. There is no Black Panther anymore, unfortunately. The Eternals cast is dull. It's odd considering how much of the MCU has been based on the likeability of its leads.

 

[psylockolussus]

One thing I find a bit of an issue is Marvel's lack of engaging new lead characters. Shang-Chi is my favorite movie of the year...but I didn't find the lead actor to be very charismatic. Captain Marvel wasn't written to be very charming...nor is Dr Strange, really. There is no Black Panther anymore, unfortunately. The Eternals cast is dull. It's odd considering how much of the MCU has been based on the likeability of its leads.

Blade, Deadpool, the Fantastic Four and the X-Men are neXt in line. So maybe you'd get it from those.

By the way, I counted all ips that got a film or getting a film in the mcu. Its eighteen, including Deadpool and the X-Men as 2 separate ips. I counted Sam Wilson under Captain America though.

 

[spidercide89]

Does anyone feel like the MCU is losing its focus and stretching itself thin? I like we getting new content, but between the movies and D+ shows, this is how you oversaturate the market and make new movies feel less event worthy.

It all depends on the general movie-going public. As long as each new MCU film is good for a $1B international gross, Disney will keep making them.

Even films based on less popular or new characters like Ant-Man, Doctor Strange, and Shang-Chi have been healthy box office successes. Eternals might end up being a bit of a misfire but it's not gonna be a 2015 Fantastic Four disaster by any means.

And as others have pointed out, the D+ shows are their own thing. Their purpose is to keep subscription dollars pouring in, and to cross-pollinate with the movies to keep interest high in the theatrical releases.

You've touched on an interesting point though. I really think we're reaching the stage where theatrical releases will serve primarily as (very) expensive commercials for the respective streaming services. Eventually studios will produce content exclusively for streaming services. It might take another decade but it's an economic inevitability.

What we'll eventually see are movies that fall somewhere between TV and theatrical releases in terms of budget and quality that will be released exclusively as streaming content. Adam Sandler's Happy Madison Productions is already doing this. The movies he's producing for Netflix have large budgets by TV standards but aren't quite up to snuff for theatrical distribution.

Eventually lesser known properties like Shang-Chi and Eternals will be produced with smaller budgets and debut exclusively on D+. Enjoy the theatrical experience while you can

 

[psylockolussus]

Eternals had a budget of $200 million. It was definitely not produced with a smaller budget. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings cost at least $150 million.

 

[Lip]

I don't think doing only what 'needs' to be done for the sake of the wider narrative is at all the point of the D+ series. For some of them, that is the way D+ will be useful. For others, it's just the opportunity to tell fun little stories in the MCU (and for Disney to tempt Marvel fans into keeping their D+ subscription). I don't think there's anything wrong with that per se. But you can't go into it expecting every D+ project to be super important to the MCU as a whole, because you will be disappointed.

As for connections, that complaint just doesn't make any sense. Look at almost everything in phase 1, then at Guardians 1 and Ant-man in phase 2, then at Dr. Strange, Captain Marvel and Black Panther in phase 3. Marvel origin stories are always far less connected than the other Marvel movies. The only real exception to that is Spider-man Homecoming, which happened for licensing reasons. Shang-Chi and the Eternals will grow into more and more connections over time, just like every other MCU character has.

I don't think I made myself clear in the last post. I wasn't complaining about the existence of D+ shows or Eternals and Shang Chi. I was addressing what others have said about the expansion of the MCU now, and if it's losing focus. I said shows like WandaVision are important. I just questioned if all the shows they're planning are exactly necessary, like Agatha Harkness.

About Shang Chi and Eternals, I wasn't complaining either. I was adressing what was said about this new phase's story. Then I pointed out that because Eternals and Shang Chi are more 'separated', it doesn't give the same vibe of being part of an ongoing story like NWH, MoM and WandaVision.

This isnt actually

Spoiler

true. Shang-Chi has appearances from Capt. Marvel, Hulk, Abomination, Trevor and Wong. I'm assuming you haven't seen the film? Wong is in the trailers. This is not different from the first film of Ant-Man, Gotg, Capt. Marvel and Dr. Strange.

Blade has a voice cameo in Eternals. Blade hasn't debuted before but still, its connected to the future of the mcu.

While they could also launch films for other characters without including established MCU characters - as long as they aren't ignored in the long run.

It isn't the same level of NWH and MoM, which gives a bigger sense of continuing an ongoing story. Again, I was addressing the complaints about this new phase's story.

Isn't that part of the point of Disney +? To give a spotlight to characters or concepts that they can't really cover in the movies. I don't see the issue with giving some of these characters little mini series to explore different types of stories

I don't see the issue as well. But I'm not going to be here pretending there isn't a massive list of characters I would be more interested right now (established or yet to debut in the MCU) than Agatha Harkness.

 

[psylockolussus]

It isn't the same level of NWH and MoM, which gives a bigger sense of continuing an ongoing story. Again, I was addressing the complaints about this new phase's story.

Ongoing story or just familiar faces...

They shouldn't just be making movies so the other popular characters like Dr. Strange, Scarlet Witch have another appear movie to appear on... Spider-Man Mcu trilogy basically features a different Avenger in every movie - not every mcu film should be like that.

Thats like being disinterested in the upcoming Fantastic Four movie, without an appearance from someone like Spider-Man or Thor. Not every MCU movie has to include a popular Avenger, or else that would leave smaller room for smaller characters to shine like Sharon Carter in Civil War.

Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings, is an introductory film for Shang-Chi (so as Eternals) whereas Dr. Strange 2 and No way Home are sequels.

 

[spidercide89]

Eternals had a budget of $200 million. It was definitely not produced with a smaller budget. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings cost at least $150 million.

I said future releases like Eternals and Shang-Chi will be produced with smaller budgets and then go exclusively to D+...

I mean...

They shouldn't just be making movies so the other popular characters like Dr. Strange, Scarlet Witch have another appear movie to appear on... Spider-Man Mcu trilogy basically a different Avenger in every movie - not every mcu film should be like that.

Thats like being disinterested in the Fantastic Four movie, without an appearance from someone like Spider-Man or Thor. Not every MCU movie has to include a popular Avenger, or else that would leave smaller room for smaller characters to shine like Sharon Carter in Civil War.

That marketing 101. Do you really think the MCU was designed to be inter-connected simply for artistic reasons??

Disney knows that by shoehorning Tony Stark into a Spider-Man movie or Scarlet Witch into a Doctor Strange movie, more people will pay to see the films. It's also a smart way to mitigate risk when introducing new characters.

Disney/Marvel learned the lessons of Avengers 2012 well.

 

[Lip]

Ongoing story or just familiar faces...

They shouldn't just be making movies so the other popular characters like Dr. Strange, Scarlet Witch have another appear movie to appear on... Spider-Man Mcu trilogy basically features a different Avenger in every movie - not every mcu film should be like that.

Thats like being disinterested in the upcoming Fantastic Four movie, without an appearance from someone like Spider-Man or Thor. Not every MCU movie has to include a popular Avenger, or else that would leave smaller room for smaller characters to shine like Sharon Carter in Civil War.

Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings, is an introductory film for Shang-Chi (so as Eternals) whereas Dr. Strange 2 and No way Home are sequels.

Whether you enjoy it or not, this shared universe is a massive part of what makes the MCU what it is. A massive part of their success. And they use this to tell the stories the best they can.

Captain America is a massive IP and had other Avengers in basically every movie also.

They don't need this connections. But after coming out of IW and Endgame, movies more "separated" can give a different vibe than other projects like NWH.

But Phase 4 is a new beginning, that's all.

 

[psylockolussus]

Whether you enjoy it or not, this shared universe is a massive part of what makes the MCU what it is. A massive part of their success. And they use this to tell the stories the best they can.

Captain America is a massive IP and had other Avengers in basically every movie also.

Okay I don't get what you are saying.

You complained about Shang-Chi/Eternals not continuing an on going story.... you do know that certain characters will have their own story to tell (that won't need famous Avengers in supporting roles). And if you have seen those films, you would know that they would eventually lead to future mcu storylines. They aren't random mcu films that won't have consequences in future films.

Second, I'm not refuting MCU's success by doing constant crossovers. Shang-Chi as I mentioned had crossover characters. But not every movie has to feature a team up or whatever role Scarlet Witch is going to have in Ds2. So do you want the Avengers to get supporting roles in the first X-Men movie?

 

[Lip]

And regarding the MCU "losing focus", I am guilty of being an X-Men fan and wanting to see them in the MCU.

But regardless of me being bias or not, the thing is they have a big number of inevitable projects coming up: Deadpool, F4, Daredevil, X-Men and its spin offs (New Mutants, Wolverine, X-Factor, X-Force, among others). Count that with the number of ongoing projects they have.

I agree that this is a lot going on and it we won't have the same level of engagement with the characters if we see them every 4 years.

That's the context that makes me question the existence of projects like Agatha Harkness, and the amount of projects to keep track.

 

[Lip]

Okay I don't get what you are saying.

You complained about Shang-Chi/Eternals not continuing an on going story.... you do know that certain characters will have their own story to tell (that won't need famous Avengers in supporting roles). And if you have seen those films, you would know that they iwould lead to future mcu storylines. They aren't random mcu films that won't have consequences in future films.

Second, I'm not refuting MCU's success by the constant crossovers. but not every movie has to feature a team up. So do you want the Avengers to get supporting roles in the first X-Men movie?

My god, I'm not complaining about them. I'm addressing what was about the MCU losing focus and the amount of projects they have. And I suggested that the fact that Eternals and Shang Chi are more isolated, it might give that vibe.

 

[psylockolussus]

My god, I'm not complaining about them. I'm addressing what was about the MCU losing focus and the amount of projects they have. And I suggested that the fact that Eternals and Shang Chi are more isolated, it might give that vibe.

Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings isn't really isolated as I already eXplained to you. How is it isolated when a character like Wong is in the trailers?

Eternals 2021 is 1 movie that is an introductory film for the Eternals. In comparison to Guardians of the GalaXy 2014, it didn't have any Avengers either. Whats not clicking to your interest isn't eXactly a case to be made that Marvel Studios is losing focus.

 

[Lip]

Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings isn't really isolated as I already eXplained to you. How is it isolated when a character like Wong is in the trailers?

Eternals 2021 is 1 movie that is an introductory film for the Eternals. In comparison to Guardians of the GalaXy 2014, it didn't have any Avengers either. Whats not clicking to your interest isn't eXactly a case to be made that Marvel Studios is losing focus.

Ok. I am done explaining.

 

[psylockolussus]

And regarding the MCU "losing focus", I am guilty of being an X-Men fan and wanting to see them in the MCU.

But regardless of me being bias or not, the thing is they have a big number of inevitable projects coming up: Deadpool, F4, Daredevil, X-Men and its spin offs (New Mutants, Wolverine, X-Factor, X-Force, among others). Count that with the number of ongoing projects they have.

I agree that this is a lot going on and it we won't have the same level of engagement with the characters if we see them every 4 years.

That's the context that makes me question the existence of projects like Agatha Harkness, and the amount of projects to keep track.

Like I said, the TV shows are mostly driven by Disney bosses wanting to pour in more content to Disney+. A lot of those projects wouldn't be greenlit if there was no Disney+. Time will tell if all of those shows, would matter in the grand scheme of things, like all phase 1 to 3 films in Infinity Saga.

The movies though are a different platform and imo holds more to weight in the grand scheme of things.

The way I see it.

Mcu movies - main meal
D+ shows - side dishes/appetizers

The long gap between movies (4 years) would be a concern if it becomes the norm. I definitely don't want a 4 year gap between X-Men movies. But there are other factors (covid + behind the scenes drama) that played into this, why certain films took longer to make.

Hopefully if there aren't a sequel to the neXt movie of Guardians, Spider-Man, Ant-Man and Thor, that would lead to shorter gaps between movies like X-Men.

 

[psylockolussus]

Also speaking of only seeing a character every 4 years? I don't think this has already happened with a major character yet? For it to be a legit concern. And we could just chop off 2020 because of the pandemic and don't include that year in that gap.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I don't plan on seeing every MCU project, just to avoid fatigue on my end. Like for Disney+, I don't know if I will watch Secret Invasion or even the next season of What If?. I will watch Hawkeye, Moon Knight, She Hulk and Ms. Marvel. Not sure yet about Armor Wars or Iron Heart. As much as I like Okoye, I don't plan on watching her rumored Disney+ show. I will watch that Halloween special if Gael Garcia Bernal is in it and why he chose to go into the MCU. I did finally get around to watching Season 1 of What If? but not after a while. I will skip out on I Am Groot.

 

[psylockolussus]

I watched all of What if? Season 1. But after a couple of episodes, it was just playing on the background for me. I didn't really pay attention, and I didn't feel like missed anything by not paying attention.

I hope they keep the episode order and runtime short for future shows - unless they are going to feature a villain of the week or story arc of the week. Like I said before, Loki, WandaVision and Falcon and the Winter Soldier could have been easily a 2 hour affair - similar to NetfliX mcu shows.

Honestly though I don't know how they can keep the public interested by the time, they are going to release their 20th series? Its only the first year, and IMO, the movies (even in this pandemic time) the mcu movies are a lot more popular, they generate more hype. Like I keep reading how Black widow is one of the most streamed movies of the year, but I don't really see a lot of streaming reports for Loki, WV and Fatws. While Shang-Chi is a boX office hit and Eternals opened pretty well this weekend. I just haven't seen much publicity and chatter about these D+ shows a month after they aired. These Disney+ shows have more chance to get lost in the miX as well, so I'm not a fan of certain ips (Moon Knight, She Hulk) not getting their own movie. So I hope they don't crazy get announcing dozens of shows again, only for the public to really care about 1 to2 shows when the shows are finally uploaded on Disney+.

 

[Albright]

I think the rumored Agatha Harkness series is not only because her gain popularity because of her performance. It’s because there couldn’t be a second season of WandaVision, because the story is told. But that Agatha show could be some kind of season 1.5 of WV with a few characters reappearing (Wanda, Billy & Tommy… Ralph *****). A lot of fans asked about a second season to happen.

edit: lol Ralph ***** got censored

 

[SirStrangefolk]

A screenplay writer for Raya and the Last Dragon is apparently writing something for Marvel. Wonder what it could be. How far in advance would a screenwriter be writing? Would it be something we know about or a new project? Kevin Feige has hinted we may see a South East Asian hero in an unannounced D+ show in the not too far-off future, could he be writing for that since Disney chose him to write for Raya too? Also, regardless of what project he's writing for, what SEA superhero could Feige mean when talking about D+ shows? Maybe a SEA hero could be part of a Jimmy Woo-led Agents of Atlas show or something?

 

[psylockolussus]

The amount of Disney+ Marvel scripted shows that we know, reminds me when Marvel Television greenlit so many live action shows (2 of those shows weren't even picked up and is forever unseen by the public). If you count season 2 to 7 of those shows as separate shows. Thats like 30 shows.

Marvel Television
7 seasons - Aos
3 seasons - Daredevil (10)
3 seasons - Jessica Jones (13)
2 seasons - Agent Carter (15)
2 seasons - Luke Cage (17)
2 seasons - Iron Fist (19)
2 seasons - The Punisher (21)
2 seasons - Cloak & Dagger (23)
3 seasons - Runaways (26)
1 and done - Inhumans, The Defenders, Helstrom (29)

Disney+
1. WandaVision
2. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
3. Loki (2 seasons)
4. What If? (2 seasons)
5. Hawkeye
6. Ms. Marvel
7. She-Hulk
8. Moon Knight
9. Iron Heart
10. Armor Wars
11. Secret Invasion
12. Wakanda
13. Echo
14. Agatha Harkness
15. Guardians of the GalaXy X-Mas
16. Werewolf by Night

And I eXpect at least 4 shows announced between now and the end of 2022. Damn thats a lot of shows. Compare to all Mcu movies we would have seen by next year (30 movies) - the amount of TV projects is already more than half of mcu movies from 2008 to 2022.

 

[Detective Conan]

Disney Plus Day press release:

We’ll get some phase 4 news in this event, but what should we expect?

If I had to guess what Marvel Studios could reveal at Disney Plus Day I reckon we get Ms Marvel, Moon Night, She-Hulk teasers confirming release dates, the confirmation of that Wakanda series(which is rumored to be animated), that Okoye series, and that Agatha Harkness show. We also might get our first looks at that animated Groot show that was announced on Disney Investors day. Probably a trailer. There almost certainly will be new casting announcements regarding those aforementioned shows.

The wild card is movie stuff seeing as this seems event will only be covering Disney Plus but I don’t foresee any new movie announcements in this event, but I hope I’m wrong. Unlike Investors day this won’t be a live event, just pre-recorded stuff uploaded online.