Marvel Films MCU Phase IV!

[Ctfxcwatcher]

My main problem with the sheer amount of content is "there's so friggin much yet none of it is allowed to be X-men for some reason". The amount of screen time we are gonna have to get through (if you were to watch the MCU from beginning to end) before any X-men show up at all is gonna be enormous.

We are now about to have 6 Avengers films with no X-Men?? That's kinda insane to me.

 

[Originalavenger]

Patience me peanut!! They coming!! They coming!!

 

[Originalavenger]

Mr peanut sauce hate to use boring logic but Disney had to have a contingency plan just in case trade commission nixed the sale!! So Disney made another 5 year plan without the sale!! So if you factor that in from 2019…5 years puts it at 2024!! I know it doesn’t make you any happier but you m itching myself to see them in the MCU!!

 

[Albright]

So will the Holiday special be Phase 4 or 5? They said Phase 4 will end with BP2 and Phase 5 will start with Quantumania.
But it seems the Holiday special will be very connected with Guardians Vol.3

 

[NeverReadComics]

What you are calling baggage is you nitpicking a movie wasn't made the way you would have wanted it. That isn't baggage.

You understand there’s a difference between nitpicking and using one’s imagination to come up with a different take on the story?

 

[NeverReadComics]

Oh, I see. The Avengers would've known they ought to recruit Shang-Chi if they had just paid attention to the box office reports.

You are selling complaints about this movie that literally make no sense whatsoever when viewed in the actual context of the movie itself.

As I said above they’re not complaints. They’re me coming up with a new movie in my head. It’s what I’ve done since I was a kid!

And of all the things to focus on/nitpick in my posts you really have picked the wrong things.

The bigger picture is I would’ve gone all in on the multiverse whilst using some of the other stories to focus on the world after Endgame.

By splitting out like this it would’ve left the post-Endgame universe less crowded.

 

[NeverReadComics]

Well yeah, obviously Shang-Chi has the power of the ten rings now that he is in possession of the ten rings. But that doesn't really have any bearing on whether the Avengers should've recruited him to fight Thanos because he didn't have the rings yet then and was actively hiding his identity.

The bigger issue is that he joined an already overcrowded universe whereas giving him his own one could’ve allowed them more freedom.

(Admittedly we’d have lost the best scene which is in the fight club)

 

[NeverReadComics]

phase 3 was an unbelievable run of hits by marvel. they were in a zone. but phase 1 and phase 2 were just as uneven as phase 4 - and with far fewer properties (and not to mention a new medium in tv). i think it's easy to lump them all together but 1 and 2 were not close in quality to phase 3.

Agree to a certain degree. Even the overarching story was not so obvious certainly on Phase 1 and even Phase 2 for the casual viewer.

Although as the story came together, and in terms of connectivity with Samuel L Jackson it was tighter. Plus you had Iron Man and Iron Man 2 (which I actually rate) in the same phase.

Phase 4 is a bit all over the place with magic, the multiverse, gods, street fighters, ever expanding lists of super soldiers. There’s also too much content. I won’t watch the TV shows again. I’m rewatching the movies now.

The other issue is this far in they’ve got so much baggage. I keep asking myself “how’s this only coming up now?”.

 

[Bayne]

As I said above they’re not complaints. They’re me coming up with a new movie in my head. It’s what I’ve done since I was a kid!

And of all the things to focus on/nitpick in my posts you really have picked the wrong things.

The bigger picture is I would’ve gone all in on the multiverse whilst using some of the other stories to focus on the world after Endgame.

By splitting out like this it would’ve left the post-Endgame universe less crowded.

The issue is you keep taking it for granted that the universe being 'crowded' is a bad thing which needs to be fixed and refusing to recognize that your solution would be a deeply unsatisfying narrative choice to a whole lot of people. Not to mention kind of insulting to the characters who aren't allowed to be real Avengers because we have to 'protect' our precious 616 universe from being too crowded (an argument that is extra explosive when talking about literally the only asian marvel hero to ever get top billing).

The bottom line is the 'problems' you're trying to solve do not feel like problems to the rest of us in the first place. But your 'solutions' do.

 

[Iceman]

phase 3 was an unbelievable run of hits by marvel. they were in a zone. but phase 1 and phase 2 were just as uneven as phase 4 - and with far fewer properties (and not to mention a new medium in tv). i think it's easy to lump them all together but 1 and 2 were not close in quality to phase 3.

Phase 3 was definitely the best so far. Phase 4 seems very different with the transition period post Endgame and Thanos and multiple main characters gone, plus the new show format (and now specials) being thrown into the mix. I think a lot of good seeds have been laid for the future though.

 

[psylockolussus]

So will the Holiday special be Phase 4 or 5? They said Phase 4 will end with BP2 and Phase 5 will start with Quantumania.
But it seems the Holiday special will be very connected with Guardians Vol.3

Hmmm.

They weren't included in those phase 4 to 6 lists presented in SDCC.

Personally, I will lump them with those DVD shorts like Team Thor and pre D+ shows.

 

[NeverReadComics]

The issue is you keep taking it for granted that the universe being 'crowded' is a bad thing which needs to be fixed and refusing to recognize that your solution would be a deeply unsatisfying narrative choice to a whole lot of people. Not to mention kind of insulting to the characters who aren't allowed to be real Avengers because we have to 'protect' our precious 616 universe from being too crowded (an argument that is extra explosive when talking about literally the only asian marvel hero to ever get top billing).

The bottom line is the 'problems' you're trying to solve do not feel like problems to the rest of us in the first place. But your 'solutions' do.

Ok so I should probably define what I mean by overcrowded….

Overcrowded to me means characters not given the space to grow. The original characters had a vast world to grow into. The new ones seem so insignificant in comparison and it’s largely because they are insignificant in this grand universe.

And I think we’re a little past the magic of being in the Avengers at this stage given it’s hardly an exclusive club anymore. In fact it’s another reason for going into a different universe. In a different universe Shan Chi gets to be an early member of the Avengers or whatever the equivalent is in that universe. In this universe well where does he even fit in?

The good news for you is that my ideas are in my head (although by posting I’ve put them in your head for a few seconds…..) but you don’t need to be too upset because THESE ARE JUST RANDOM THOUGHTS ON THE INTERNET.

 

[Originalavenger]

Agree that I see some over crowding!! So many IP’s marvel has back!! Gonna get more jammed up with fox characters back in the fold!! Don’t need humongous back stories on all “new” characters but a little bit might help the GA know these characters some more

 

[Bayne]

Ok so I should probably define what I mean by overcrowded….

Overcrowded to me means characters not given the space to grow. The original characters had a vast world to grow into. The new ones seem so insignificant in comparison and it’s largely because they are insignificant in this grand universe.

And I think we’re a little past the magic of being in the Avengers at this stage given it’s hardly an exclusive club anymore. In fact it’s another reason for going into a different universe. In a different universe Shan Chi gets to be an early member of the Avengers or whatever the equivalent is in that universe. In this universe well where does he even fit in?

The idea that they have no room to grow because the universe is vast is just nonsense to me. If anything, that gives them more room to grow, not less. The Avengers being 'exclusive' also has nothing to do with what makes them important. And Shang-Chi fit in fantastically right where he was and I see no reason at all to believe he won't fit in in his inevitable crossover appearances.

The good news for you is that my ideas are in my head (although by posting I’ve put them in your head for a few seconds…..) but you don’t need to be too upset because THESE ARE JUST RANDOM THOUGHTS ON THE INTERNET.

You're the one resorting to internet shouting, mate. You're right that I'm glad your ideas aren't going to happen in the movies but disagreeing with you and saying so doesn't make anyone emotionally triggered. Your random thoughts on the internet aren't entitled to exist in an uncritical void.

 

[Batgirl0202]

If you think about the number of established metahumans in the MCU in a global context, the number is actually pretty miniscule.

You could even say the same thing about Marvel Comics. There are roughly 8000 characters in the Marvel Universe (comics), many of which aren't even metahuman. On a planet of 7.8 billion people???

There's plenty of room for all the characters Marvel owns to fit into and thrive within the MCU, and that includes the ones who haven't even been introduced yet. The only ceiling is imagination, of which Feige seems to have an unlimited supply of...

 

[Bayne]

If you think about the number of established metahumans in the MCU in a global context, the number is actually pretty miniscule.

You could even say the same thing about Marvel Comics. There are roughly 8000 characters in the Marvel Universe (comics), many of which aren't even metahuman. On a planet of 7.8 billion people???

There's plenty of room for all the characters Marvel owns to fit into and thrive within the MCU, and that includes the ones who haven't even been introduced yet. The only ceiling is imagination, of which Feige seems to have an unlimited supply of...

And in addition to those numbers, a huge portion of the comics characters don't even live on this planet, anyway. And the same is true for the MCU. There are literally galaxies' worth of space to grow in.

 

[Originalavenger]

My only point with my “overcrowding” comment was not would like to make sure all characters get proper acknowledgement and enough flesh out time!! No character needs to be short changed

 

[Bayne]

My only point with my “overcrowding” comment was not would like to make sure all characters get proper acknowledgement and enough flesh out time!! No character needs to be short changed

I would agree with that with the caveat that we're talking about actual major characters (from the standpoint of the films/shows being made, not from the standpoint of the comics).

The reality is that every story needs supporting characters and as the entire MCU is an adaptation, the lion's share of those supporting characters are also going to be adaptations of someone - often of someone who's had more material in the comics if only because they've already existed for decades. That doesn't guarantee their importance in the MCU is large enough to actually devote massive amounts of screentime to them.

 

[psylockolussus]

Hmm yes there's still plenty of Marvel characters we haven't seen in live action but if you think about it, not everyone needs to be seen or be adapted.

Personally, the X-Men, the Fantastic Four, the Inhumans, Ghost Rider, Silver Surfer, the Punisher are the only remaining that should definitely appear in a Mcu movie. The rest imo don't feel essential. Like I don't want them to get to phase 12, and its merely the d listers getting their own flicks. At some point, MCU would have to end and start afresh with the a listers again.

 

[NeverReadComics]

The idea that they have no room to grow because the universe is vast is just nonsense to me. If anything, that gives them more room to grow, not less. The Avengers being 'exclusive' also has nothing to do with what makes them important. And Shang-Chi fit in fantastically right where he was and I see no reason at all to believe he won't fit in in his inevitable crossover appearances.



You're the one resorting to internet shouting, mate. You're right that I'm glad your ideas aren't going to happen in the movies but disagreeing with you and saying so doesn't make anyone emotionally triggered. Your random thoughts on the internet aren't entitled to exist in an uncritical void.

Im more than happy to exist in a critical void but you were having a go at me for, erm, criticising the movie….

So you want the movie to exist in an uncritical void but random internet comments must be scrutinised to death!

 

[NeverReadComics]

If you think about the number of established metahumans in the MCU in a global context, the number is actually pretty miniscule.

You could even say the same thing about Marvel Comics. There are roughly 8000 characters in the Marvel Universe (comics), many of which aren't even metahuman. On a planet of 7.8 billion people???

There's plenty of room for all the characters Marvel owns to fit into and thrive within the MCU, and that includes the ones who haven't even been introduced yet. The only ceiling is imagination, of which Feige seems to have an unlimited supply of...

Minuscule in numbers but not in their influence.

It was already challenging in the first phases when other heroes didn’t turn up each time the world or universe was threatened (I get for the whole thing we need to suspend our disbelief but the issue is immersion).

That becomes more of an issue each time a new hero or baddy is introduced.

For example the whole back story in Shang-Chi about the Ten Rings changing history sort of loses its gravitas when the same backstory was given for Hydra and Black Widow and whoever else is supposed to have overthrown governments.

These issues can be resolved using the multiverse. I’ve just rewatched Dr Strange and it deals with this so well. I think it’s my favourite movie in this phase.

 

[NeverReadComics]

I would agree with that with the caveat that we're talking about actual major characters (from the standpoint of the films/shows being made, not from the standpoint of the comics).

The reality is that every story needs supporting characters and as the entire MCU is an adaptation, the lion's share of those supporting characters are also going to be adaptations of someone - often of someone who's had more material in the comics if only because they've already existed for decades. That doesn't guarantee their importance in the MCU is large enough to actually devote massive amounts of screentime to them.

Agreed.

But like I said above, it’s also the context that their story exists in.

Like when X-Men do eventually show up we will really need to ask the question where was Professor X for Thanos.

The Eternals terrible excuse definitely won’t wash.

X-men will either need to come into existence in the main universe after some date or exist in a parallel universe as Dr Strange 2 has strongly hinted at.

I’d certainly prefer the latter.

 

[Bayne]

Im more than happy to exist in a critical void but you were having a go at me for, erm, criticising the movie….

So you want the movie to exist in an uncritical void but random internet comments must be scrutinised to death!

I've criticized the movie myself. I don't believe it's a perfect movie (I don't believe a perfect movie even exists) and I have no desire whatsoever for it to exist in an uncritical void. The issue still, as from the beginning, is that your criticisms are pure nonsense in my opinion. Tell me what jokes didn't land for you, tell me what performances didn't work for you, what scenes felt boring, what you didn't like about the concepts in general, etc, I probably wouldn't push back much if even at all. Tell me that Shang-Chi doesn't make sense because he should have been recruited to fight Thanos? No. That's utterly ridiculous and completely ignores the actual content of the movie.

Minuscule in numbers but not in their influence.

It was already challenging in the first phases when other heroes didn’t turn up each time the world or universe was threatened (I get for the whole thing we need to suspend our disbelief but the issue is immersion).

That becomes more of an issue each time a new hero or baddy is introduced.

For example the whole back story in Shang-Chi about the Ten Rings changing history sort of loses its gravitas when the same backstory was given for Hydra and Black Widow and whoever else is supposed to have overthrown governments.

These issues can be resolved using the multiverse. I’ve just rewatched Dr Strange and it deals with this so well. I think it’s my favourite movie in this phase.

Case in point. You think it is somehow immersion breaking that two different organizations can attempt to alter the course of history at the same time (despite the fact that we live in a world where lots of organizations are constantly engaged in trying to do that). Yet you also base your argument on the concept of 'undermined gravitas' which implies that the issue isn't really or at least isn't only believability but is also simple originality. Ie, it's already been done so it's boring to do it again. Yet you also somehow think that a multiverse solution will fix that undermined gravitas. Drawing up a fictional firewall of 'oh, this is a different world now' doesn't make it any more original or surprising. And having only one organization of wannabe world-shapers per universe would actually be less realistic.

Likewise, with the issue of heroes 'not showing up' you embrace the cliche and very bad argument that heroes should *always* be expected to show up as if none of them are ever asleep, unreachable, too far away, or just simply don't know about what's happening, etc. And again your multiverse 'solution' completely ignores the fact that this same problem will assuredly pop up in every universe which is given more than the bare minimum of screentime. Especially if these characters (and by extension their worlds) are allowed to have the growth you claim you want for them, because growth in this genre by definition includes the addition of further characters (supporting characters, villains, colleagues, rivals etc.).

Agreed.

But like I said above, it’s also the context that their story exists in.

Like when X-Men do eventually show up we will really need to ask the question where was Professor X for Thanos.

The Eternals terrible excuse definitely won’t wash.

X-men will either need to come into existence in the main universe after some date or exist in a parallel universe as Dr Strange 2 has strongly hinted at.

I’d certainly prefer the latter.

I'd absolutely hate the latter. I don't want to see the X-men and the Avengers in different universes where every crossover has to involve portals and I don't want to see universes smashed together like playthings where the audience is supposed to clap and be happy at the deaths of uncountable universes because that means we can now have X-men/Avenger movies. And having the X-Men ported into the 616 universe like refugees would completely undermine their most basic themes as a franchise.

There's plenty of story space available for the X-Men to just evolve naturally in the 616 universe. And if we never find out what Professor X did about Thanos (assuming he wasn't just off in the Shi-Ar galaxy for a decade), then it's ok for it to remain a mystery. For all we know, Professor X won't even be a major character for the MCU X-Men. He could already be dead or out of the picture in some other way before the first X-Men story starts.

 

[Spider-Fan]

So will the Holiday special be Phase 4 or 5? They said Phase 4 will end with BP2 and Phase 5 will start with Quantumania.
But it seems the Holiday special will be very connected with Guardians Vol.3

James Gunn himself said the Holiday Special is the Epilogue installment of Phase 4, much like Ant-Man in Phase 2 and Spider-Man: Far From Home in Phase 3

 

[Dr. Evil]

The "special presentations" like Werewolf by Night could add a little variety to the MCU. One idea I have for a future "Special Presentation" is an in-universe documentary, where to us, it's another work of fiction, a part of the MCU but in the MCU itself, is 100% real. As I have said in other threads, ideas include one about what happened to the Howling Commandoes after World War II, Monica Rambeau after Captain Marvel but right before she was blipped and taking care of Maria and Ted Sallis before he was Man Thing. Documentaries never use CGI to tell the story, as it's usually photos, videos (news segments, home movies etc.), newspaper clippings and sometimes even animation to go along with interviews. MCU projects recently have been criticized for bad CGI, but with an in-universe documentary, that would not be an issue. I hope that we see an in-universe documentary soon.