Marvel Films MCU Phase IV!

Here are my guesses:

2020
- May: Black Widow
- August: Falcon and Winter Soldier will air on Disney+
- November: The Eternals
*WandaVision will air on Disney+

2021
- February: Shang-Chi
- May: Black Panther 2
- November: Doctor Strange 2 (hope I'm wrong here, I'm sick of waiting for this one)
*Loki, Hawkeye will air on Disney+

2022
- February: Nova
- May: Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3
- July: Spider-Man 3 OR Ant-Man 3 (depending on if Sony renews the license)
*More seasons or more shows will come to Disney+

2023 will see the release of Avengers 5, Fantastic Four, and whichever one of Spider-Man 3 or Ant-Man 3 doesn't come in 2022. I could also see 2023 being the first year the MCU moves to 4 movies a year.
 
Here are my guesses:

2020
- May: Black Widow
- August: Falcon and Winter Soldier will air on Disney+
- November: The Eternals
*WandaVision will air on Disney+

2021
- February: Shang-Chi
- May: Black Panther 2
- November: Doctor Strange 2 (hope I'm wrong here, I'm sick of waiting for this one)
*Loki, Hawkeye will air on Disney+

2022
- February: Nova
- May: Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3
- July: Spider-Man 3 OR Ant-Man 3 (depending on if Sony renews the license)
*More seasons or more shows will come to Disney+

2023 will see the release of Avengers 5, Fantastic Four, and whichever one of Spider-Man 3 or Ant-Man 3 doesn't come in 2022. I could also see 2023 being the first year the MCU moves to 4 movies a year.

Is Black Widow a lock for 2020? I wasn't aware they had even started production on it?
 
No clue. Best guess is closer to Ant-Man level but that is purely speculation.
 
Tight turnaround then. Will it be a relatively low budget one?

I'd think just by the nature of the story, it will require a lot less special effects, exotic sets, props, costumes, post-production etc., so that should make it inherently less expensive and easier, quicker to make than a typical Marvel film.
 
Yeah I didn't initially see a BW film being in the same range budget wise as some other MCU films for reasons already listed.

But lemme throw this out there... Most recent non-Avengers MCU films, whether solo or group, have a floor of about $150 million, a ceiling of about $170 million (and to be honest... Hollywood accounting being what it is these are likely the roughest of rough estimates available to us, the public.)

Now who and what is Tasha supposed to be? Well to my mind Black Widow is like every cool and competent Bond femme fatale rolled into one multiplied by ten since she's a super hero character from a super hero universe. Her peers are Bond, Bourne and Ethan Hunt from the Mission Impossible series. What do those films try to accomplish? Big action set pieces often taking place in well known locations around the world which include a fair amount of the work of elite level stunt teams. The characters may not go to space or shoot laser guns but the use of VFX is rampant, but they also use many a practical shot, crushing lots of cars and crashing a lot of prop planes etc. There is by virtue of the long history of Bond and his ilk as big screen super spies often some semi sci fi aspect in either the macguffin being chased or the various gadgets being employed by the hero.

What is the cost of THOSE films? Well the two best Craig Bond films Casino Royale/Skyfall both have a price tag of at least $150 million. At least. The M:I films of late also start around there though the last one went up to about $210 million.

Now what's the film closest to in spirit to the Bond/Bourne/Hunt films in the MCU? It just so happens to be The Winter Soldier where BW appeared. What was TWS's cost? About $150 million.

My point is... I don't think this is like a DEADPOOL1 situation. To realize BW as she should be and have her film compete on the same level as James, Jason and Ethan I don't think you can nickel and dime the budget. At a minimum they should probably give BW a budget in the same ball park as TWS if not a slight bit more.
 
Yeah I didn't initially see a BW film being in the same range budget wise as some other MCU films for reasons already listed.

But lemme throw this out there... Most recent non-Avengers MCU films, whether solo or group, have a floor of about $150 million, a ceiling of about $170 million (and to be honest... Hollywood accounting being what it is these are likely the roughest of rough estimates available to us, the public.)

Now who and what is Tasha supposed to be? Well to my mind Black Widow is like every cool and competent Bond femme fatale rolled into one multiplied by ten since she's a super hero character from a super hero universe. Her peers are Bond, Bourne and Ethan Hunt from the Mission Impossible series. What do those films try to accomplish? Big action set pieces often taking place in well known locations around the world which include a fair amount of the work of elite level stunt teams. The characters may not go to space or shoot laser guns but the use of VFX is rampant, but they also use many a practical shot, crushing lots of cars and crashing a lot of prop planes etc. There is by virtue of the long history of Bond and his ilk as big screen super spies often some semi sci fi aspect in either the macguffin being chased or the various gadgets being employed by the hero.

What is the cost of THOSE films? Well the two best Craig Bond films Casino Royale/Skyfall both have a price tag of at least $150 million. At least. The M:I films of late also start around there though the last one went up to about $210 million.

Now what's the film closest to in spirit to the Bond/Bourne/Hunt films in the MCU? It just so happens to be The Winter Soldier where BW appeared. What was TWS's cost? About $150 million.

My point is... I don't think this is like a DEADPOOL1 situation. To realize BW as she should be and have her film compete on the same level as James, Jason and Ethan I don't think you can nickel and dime the budget. At a minimum they should probably give BW a budget in the same ball park as TWS if not a slight bit more.

Good points, but if I had anything to say about it, it would avoid the big cliché action/chase scenes of the films you mention and keep it smaller, more realistic, more tense and more intense.
 
I hope the MCU X-Men exist in their own universe and only interact with the Avengers in a big crossover at the end of Phase 6 or something like that. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense. Thousands of mutants appearing out of nowhere without ever having been mentioned would be absurd.
 
I hope the MCU X-Men exist in their own universe and only interact with the Avengers in a big crossover at the end of Phase 6 or something like that. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense. Thousands of mutants appearing out of nowhere without ever having been mentioned would be absurd.
How is it we keep talking ourselves in circles?

There is no way the X-Men will be in a different universe. It is incredibly simple to introduce them and no one is expecting there to be thousands of them from Day One.
 
I hope the MCU X-Men exist in their own universe and only interact with the Avengers in a big crossover at the end of Phase 6 or something like that. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense. Thousands of mutants appearing out of nowhere without ever having been mentioned would be absurd.
No one BUT the persickety long time fans (and... That does include a lot of Hyesters, sorry but that's my feelings on this...) will honestly care in the least, especially in the general audience. We can talk all we want about "suspension of disbelief" being punctured or how they can't just spring this concept without some convoluted back story or whatever... Most people just won't care. Most people just DON'T care.

Probably the biggest issue fans have is the assumption that the ENTIRETY of the Marvel Comics X-Men mythology is coming along for the ride once the Mutants hit the MCU, so there's this expectation that the amount of mutants in the MCU will mirror how it's been portrayed in the comics for decades. Given the track record of the MCU I don't understand why they have this assumption given that has not been the case with any of the other adaptations. Think of the decades of lore and other characters that have been in Iron Man, Thor, Capt. America, and the Avengers, the characters with trilogies or more in the MCU... Those films after 11 years barely scratched the surface of the comic book content. Expecting a one for one parallel in the MCU X-Men is setting your sights so high you are bound to be disappointed.

It's like with Spidey in the MCU. Some Spidey fans were all incensed about not having Venom available. "Without Venom in the MCU, how can we ever get Flash Thompson as Agent Venom?!!"

Well... You were never promised Agent Venom. Expecting that the any of this is going to run in the same fashion as monthly comic books when what we have is two hour chapters made about every two years at best (some taking longer, some of the films occasionally being longer) is pie in the sky. So they are never going to be exact replicas of the comics for a variety of reasons and the last 11 years of the MCU should have educated us as fans into realizing this.

And honestly, just like every other concept that popped up in the MCU that had zero precedent in a previous film, the real reason they never mentioned Mutants, aside from the obvious real world rights issue, was because... They never mentioned them. Point blank. They weren't telling us that story so... There was no need to reference any aspect of it. There's no mention of a spider powered vigilante operating out of New York and then suddenly in Civil War he's there. We hard core fans can say that Spidey's introduction is clunky in CW but... The rest of the audience just didn't care. "Oh... Spider-Man is in these films now? Cool!"


It's funny that fan opinions on these things sometimes mirrors the world view of Hollywood producers from the pre-CBM boom. "Well... We need to do some kind of radical change for this to go over with general audience, because I myself can't wrap my head around this concept."

The general audience doesn't go to these films, with good or bad outcomes for the products themselves, for some kind of air tight logic about the nature of these fantasy worlds. They don't take them THAT seriously. So when the X-Men show up only an easily dismissable amount of the people buying tickets will have qualms about them being introduced without having been continuously referenced the previous 11 years.

This need to wall off the Mutants into a separate continuity is so odd to hear when for more than a decade that's what's been the status quo within the MCU and literally daily online forums were filled with fans lamenting this... Only for now many of the same fans are asking for the X-Men to be walled off into their own separate continuity.

It doesn't make any sense to me.
 
Not unlike Spider-Man: Homecoming, I also guarantee "Hey, these guys are in the MCU now!" is gonna factor into the marketing to some extent. There have been a steady stream of X-Men movies for nearly 20 years, and being able to market the new ones as being in the same universe as the likes of the Avengers, Black Panther, Doctor Strange, Captain Marvel and the Guardians of the Galaxy (and whichever other characters have blown up big by then) is an immediate way to differentiate the new installments from the ones that came before.
 
Here are

2023 will see the release of Avengers 5, Fantastic Four, and whichever one of Spider-Man 3 or Ant-Man 3 doesn't come in 2022. I could also see 2023 being the first year the MCU moves to 4 movies a year.

I think Sony will determine what year is the 4 movie year. They seem to like the clip of a movie every two years, so it's quite possible that they will create a July 2021 date for Spider-Man 3.
 
There is no way the X-Men will be in a different universe. It is incredibly simple to introduce them and no one is expecting there to be thousands of them from Day One.
The problem is that would basically ruin the essence of what mutants are supposed to be. They are supposed to be a global minority who is discriminated against. If there are only a few mutants in a world that already had dozens of non-mutant superheroes, then the X-Men just become random superheroes indistinct from any of the Avengers.
 
The general audience doesn't go to these films, with good or bad outcomes for the products themselves, for some kind of air tight logic about the nature of these fantasy worlds. They don't take them THAT seriously. So when the X-Men show up only an easily dismissable amount of the people buying tickets will have qualms about them being introduced without having been continuously referenced the previous 11 years.
I'm sorry, but that's not true. The general audience doesn't care about comic book movies being faithful to the source material, but they do care about the stories making some kind of sense.
This need to wall off the Mutants into a separate continuity is so odd to hear when for more than a decade that's what's been the status quo within the MCU and literally daily online forums were filled with fans lamenting this... Only for now many of the same fans are asking for the X-Men to be walled off into their own separate continuity.

It doesn't make any sense to me.
Maybe that's because there are a lot fans and they have different opinions? I was a huge X-Men fan growing up and I honestly never wanted them to be a part of the MCU. I just care about the movies being good.
 
I'm sorry, but that's not true. The general audience doesn't care about comic book movies being faithful to the source material, but they do care about the stories making some kind of sense.

Maybe that's because there are a lot fans and they have different opinions? I was a huge X-Men fan growing up and I honestly never wanted them to be a part of the MCU. I just care about the movies being good.

Judging by current box office projections, it doesn't seem a lot of fans particularly care for them being separate. I guarantee that will change dramatically when the MCU X-Men is announced. Then you'll see a different opinion then yours in full effect.
 
Judging by current box office projections, it doesn't seem a lot of fans particularly care for them being separate. I guarantee that will change dramatically when the MCU X-Men is announced. Then you'll see a different opinion then yours in full effect.
Maybe the projections are bad because Apocalypse was a terrible movie and the trailers for Dark Phoenix don't look very promising?

I never said they should be separate. I think they should be in a different universe. The new Spider-Man movie is introducing the multiverse, right? Mysterio is apparently from a different universe. So the X-Men could exist in a different universe that eventually comes into contact with the main one in a big crossover. I think that would make much more sense than only having a handful of mutants in the whole world, or thousands of mutants having existed for decades even though no one mentioned them before.
 
Having them in a separate continuity and only having them show up for crossovers is still, uh, a separate continuity. All because some, again, need some all encompassing, over the top, airtight logic applied to their stories about totally irrational characters with super powers.

Yeah, internal logic is important. And sure, there's been no mention of Mutants. But once more... Nobody in the audience is really going to care in numbers that matter. If we are starting with the X-Men at a ground zero in the MCU then it really isn't some grand leap to present it as it was in the comics originally and build up from there. Only the fanboy types, and I'm one so I get where the obsessive impulse comes from in regards to these things, will give an airborme copulation about the logistics of it all.

Feige and co. didn't really give the snap, it's aftermath or the resurrection as much play as something of that magnitude should have in universe and I have little faith given the "fun" angle so many admire about MCU films that outside of what will be a handful of perfunctory lines it ever will be handled. That is always going to irk me likely speaking.

But... The rest of the audience isn't gonna even register the problem I see. They'll roll with the punches and just be happy to see new versions of Scott, Hank, Jean, Ororo, Kurt and Logan in the MCU and interacting with everyone else that's already there.
 
Maybe the projections are bad because Apocalypse was a terrible movie and the trailers for Dark Phoenix don't look very promising?

I never said they should be separate. I think they should be in a different universe. The new Spider-Man movie is introducing the multiverse, right? Mysterio is apparently from a different universe. So the X-Men could exist in a different universe that eventually comes into contact with the main one in a big crossover. I think that would make much more sense than only having a handful of mutants in the whole world, or thousands of mutants having existed for decades even though no one mentioned them before.

My biggest concern is the MCU continuity when introducing the X-Men, which is why I brought up something similar to you in the past, but that's not to say it can't be done in-universe as well.I'm basically in wait and see mode and have faith that Feige & co. will not ruin or undermine what they've done to introduce the mutants. I do see existing in a different universe (initially) being a legitimate option though.
 
My biggest concern is the MCU continuity when introducing the X-Men, which is why I brought up something similar to you in the past, but that's not to say it can't be done in-universe as well.I'm basically in wait and see mode and have faith that Feige & co. will not ruin or undermine what they've done to introduce the mutants. I do see existing in a different universe (initially) being a legitimate option though.
Yes, they'll probably handle it well.
 
Part of me is secretly hoping that we get a surprise phase 4 announcement before comic-con but I doubt it. All tho the Phase 3 announcement was pretty random even though I feel but it was set off by the DC announcement that happened a few weeks before the phase 3 reveal.
 

Just make him Multiple Man. That will give him lots of roles to play immediately.
 

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