Marvel Films MCU Phase IV!

[psylockolussus]

Well you know Agatha House of Harkness and Echo, wouldn't even eXist if Disney+ wasn't launched in the first place. Disney were making TV shows before Disney+ but they didn't order Marvel Studios to make their own shows until they decided to compete with NetfliX. And Marvel studios was just fine making movies after movies.

And yes, not everybody is going to have their own movie. Thats obvious. But some definitely can if given the chance, unless Disney and co. think it won't do well at the boX office.

Anyway, I look forward when you get your X-Men show and wonder why it doesn't have a scale of an Avengers movie... a tv series isn't necessarily better especially if the main goal is just to pour more content to Disney+. We already have dozen of live action marvel shows for starters. Most of them aren't good.

 

[SumT]

who on this world is expecting a tv show to have the scale of an Avengers movie?
that doesnt make any sense lol. Tv shows are done to try different things than the movies, not to make a movie on tv, thats now how they work.

sometimes it seems like you only care about "big spectacle" for these characters. Tv shows arent made for that, there is something called character development and trying other type of tones and plots.
If we want movies, we have the movies. Tv shows are a whole different thing.

 

[psylockolussus]

I don't eXpect it to have a scale like a movie, thats why I prefer a movie in the first place when it comes to cb adaptations.

Also, Disney does make movies eXclusive for their streaming service, so you're wrong on that one. Lady and the Tramp was the first one for D+.

If I only cared about spectacle, i would just watch Transformers, and whatever cgi filled movie out there. But you're under assumption that these "shows" are being made just to be "different". Like I said Disney+ ordered Marvel Studios to make eXclusive content to D+ to complete with NetfliX. These shows aren't made purely for the love of art/story telling or else Marvel Studios could have made TV shows for Abc years ago, if they really wanted to produce TV shows in the first place. Some of these shows wouldn't even see the light of day if Disney didn't launch their streaming service.

Also, if you have opened a X-Men comic book, you will know there's plenty of big spectacle when it comes to imagery, which is a streaming series is going to lack of if it isn't given a budget like Endgame or just the standard MCU movie.

 

[Bayne]

Some of my favorite x-men issues have literally no spectacle in them at all. And there are characters and story concepts that don't need spectacle.

Also the idea that the shows can't be good because otherwise MS would have already made them pre-D+ is absurd. Disney split the movie and tv divisions. Feige had no power over what the tv division did. Not to mention the fact that new people can bring new ideas and perspectives and even people who already were making shows or movies years ago can still have good ideas in the D+ era.

 

[psylockolussus]

It isn't just visual effects and set pieces when it comes to spectacle though, there's the locations, costumes, cinematography, production design, etc.

By the way, I watched the third episode of Hawkeye and damn the VFX/green scene of the chase scene was so obvious, it was distracting.

Also the idea that the shows can't be good because otherwise MS would have already made them pre-D+ is absurd. Disney split the movie and tv divisions. Feige had no power over what the tv division did. Not to mention the fact that new people can bring new ideas and perspectives and even people who already were making shows or movies years ago can still have good ideas in the D+ era.

You are putting words into my mouth. I never said its impossible for a TV show to be better than a film, in mcu. My favorite show, Lost is better than most mcu films. I just haven't seen a mcu series that is miles better than most mcu films. Maybe some of them are better than bottom of the barrel like Iron man 2 and Thor 2.

So I believe it when I see it, four of the live action shows that have aired so far IMO, would have been better if it was made into a 2 hour movie (as opposed to a nine or six part series that dragged a single storyline throughout the entire run). All of them would have gotten better pacing/fewer filler moments if they were a feature film. The production value/spectacle are just the icing on the cake.

 

[SumT]

Some of my favorite x-men issues have literally no spectacle in them at all. And there are characters and story concepts that don't need spectacle.

Movies and shows should be first and foremost about the story and the characters, not about the sfx

 

[psylockolussus]

Movies and shows should be first and foremost about the story and the characters, not about the sfx

When those characters are literally known for their powers then that's just laughable.

Also, a big selling point of the mutants is their powers. Okay, i guess you'd be fine with the X-Men living in a regular house, no Blackbird, no danger Room, and power displays that are always off screen. Characters like Beast, Nightcrawler, Iceman, Colossus and Sunfire, literally need a decent budget not to look dodgy. But I guess you'd be fine with them just in human form because its all about story and character...

Name three comic book storylines, that won't require any spectacle. I'll wait.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Movies and shows should be first and foremost about the story and the characters, not about the sfx

That's how I go into all movies and shows, not just comic book movies and tv shows. This has to do with my favorite current filmmakers being Wes Anderson, PT Anderson, Richard Linklater, Quentin Tarantino and Martin Scorsese, none of whom ever rely on special affects or CGI in their movies and if they have, I don't notice it.

 

[John Piretra]

Phase IV has been interesting. I don't agree with the idea that it's been weak. It's just very different and I'm okay with that. It's a Post-Cap, Post-Iron Man, Post-Thanos Marvel Cinematic Universe. Things should be different. Its got issues though but I don't think it's failed altogether like some say.

1. Black Widow - 7.8/10 A fun watch that didn't blow me away. Pugh successfully inherits the BW mantle.

2. Wandavision - 8.5/10 Cool contained riff on Wanda's "world". Absolutely detested how they forced Monica Rambeau into the story. Really dug the way they brought Vision back to the MCU.

3. Falcon and The Winter Soldier - 7.4/10 woke to the point of cringe (Mackie's speech at the end). This show had the potential to be the best of all the Disney+ shows. Villains were absurd. Bucky was wasted. Zemo, Walker and Isaiah Bradley were the standouts. Mackie doesn't make a good Cap. He lacks the persona and he looks incredibly awkward in the costume. Epic misfire.

4. Loki aka The Kang Origin show - 9.1/10 The best of the bunch to come from Disney+. Kept you glued week to week with it's dark humor and odd charm and perfectly placed Kang breadcrumbs. When Majors appeared it was as awesome as when Luke appeared in The Mandalorian.

5. Shang Chi - 8.1/10 Fun and heartwarming at times but ultimately too light IMO.

6. Eternals - 8.9/10 - Awesome intro to the Celestials and their breeding habits. Areshim looked TOO glorious in IMAX. Ikaris aka MCU Supes was the show-stealer for me. The stingers were outstanding. Specially

Spoiler

Blade's intro

7. Hawkeye - 8/10 for now. Digging it but not blown away yet. Steinfeld is excellent though. I'll gladly accept her as Renner's potential replacement.

Phase IV is good so far. Some bumps in the road but overall good.

 

[Albright]

https://thedisinsider.com/2021/12/0...rvel-announcements-soon-says-therell-be-news/

…soon probably means not before July.
Remember KF said during the Investors Day 2020, we’ll get some official news for Blade very, very soon.

 

[psylockolussus]

I enjoyed the 3 movies.

The 4 live action shows though. Until Marvel Studios produced a series that doesn't feel like a story that can easily be told into 2 hours, then good. But WandaVision, Loki, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier and Hawkeye could have been easily a 2hr direct to streaming film, if you remove the filler scenes/make the pacing faster, and it would probably be better. So I won't be thrilled, if future shows follow the same scenario.

While What If? is Mcu-adjacent. Its animated and puts a twists on mcu characters if they were in a different reality. Not really essential viewing imo.

 

[Detective Conan]

 

[psylockolussus]

Wow Kang and M.O.D.O.K., those are gigantic villains from the comics.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

For me, Phase 4 is kinda....meh so far. Everything I'm excited for is so up in the air.

For me, this is what I'm excited for:

1) More Spidey
Garfield first, ironically, then Holland. Who knows when/where we'll get em though.

2) X-Men
In like 2030 or whatever.

3) The next Cap appearance
Be it Cap 4 or Avengers 5, whenever those are coming out.

4) Armor Wars/Iron Heart
Have they even started filming? I need to see some Iron people every now and then for the MCU to feel like the MCU.

5) Thor: Love & Thunder
Mostly for Jane and Thor reunited.

And when I think about it, these are the core classic Marvel properties: Spidey, X-Men, Iron Man, Cap, Thor. I hate to say it, but all the C-level properties that they've pushed to the forefront (Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Guardians), I don't really care about.

I sorta feel like they gotta announce the next Avengers movie to give a bit of direction to the phase. Maybe that's just me though.

 

[psylockolussus]

I would like Feige to confirm the Endyear for Ph4se.

2021 to 2023 seems fitting. 10 movies (1 is still unknown, hoping its F4) and I'm guessing at least a dozen of Tv series.

Then start phas5 in 2024 with Captain Americ4, Deadpool, Blade and perhaps Spider-Man: Come Back Home

 

[HammerDown]

Looking at the series and movies in phase 4 it all seems to be lining up for a new Avengers roster for a future team up film down the line, maybe in 2025 or something, since there’s still a lot of announced and named projects coming through the pipeline.

So far these seem to be the characters to choose from for a new Avengers roster in the future:
Captain America Sam
Black Widow Yelena
Shang Chi
Spider-Man
Hawkeye Kate
Doctor Strange
Scarlet Witch
Moon Knight
Hulk / She Hulk
Thor / Mighty Thor
Black Panther Shuri/Mbaku
Captain Marvel
…

Then there’s still Blade, Fantastic Four, Mutants/X-Men, “Deadpool”…

 

[psylockolussus]

You forgot Riri, Kamala, Echo, Agatha Harkness, Nick Fury, Ant-Man and the Wasp and Stature. And I don't think War Machine is going to just sit out after Armor Wars. White Vision is on the loose as well.

Hmm I think we are going to get Avengers 5 and 6 back to back (like just 1 year apart), especially with the long wait and if the roster is going to be so big.

Does Dr. Strange have legacy character in the comics? He is the only one that I can't think of having a successor / clone. With Shang-Chi, he has a sister and I could see the sister being a successor.

 

[HammerDown]

And of course some of the interest might waver here and there but I think Marvel can easily keep it going if they play their cards right and it will eventually get more popular in the future.

So far I like some of the stuff I’m seeing. Some of the OG are basically gone and need to be replaced accordingly, for example I really enjoyed the new Black Widow/Yelena and from the little I saw the new girl as Hawkeye also seem to be good and I don’t mind seeing Hawkeye dropping for more of a mentor role either.

On a more neutral note, Sam Wilson as the Captain America is something that needs to be developed more in order to really bring him up to the forefront and I guess that’s what CA4 will be for. Shang Chi is a solid character that needs a bit more salt and pepper to really come into his own and eventually be part of the team. I also think if they do a few adjustments to Captain Marvel that she too can really come into her own and get more people on her side.

The Black Panther stuff is a though situation to address. Hopefully they can make the best with what they have and it should be fine. With the Hulk it could go either way because of the whole rights situation which is a shame. A Spider-Man will eventually be back maybe even Miles Morales.

Other than that and back to more positive stuff, I appreciate Scarlett Witch and think she has really shined and came into her own as a great character after WandaVision and they’ll likely be using her in some capacity moving forward as well. Doctor Strange isn’t going anywhere I don’t think since he is kind of that “supervisor figure” in the MCU and the one in touch with the more grandiose aspects of the comic book lore which should come into play moving forward.

And last but not least I think the remaining OG - Thor will remain as the linchpin in the MCU or so I hope since he’s truly a beloved character and one that can keep on breathing life into this universe for years to come.

 

[psylockolussus]

The "replacements" are going to be in shadow of the OGs. I don't know why Marvel Studios is so adamant pushing these legacy characters. Shang-Chi, Eternals, X-Men, Fantastic Four, Blade, Deadpool these are the ones I would put front and center like in five years.

I don't know how long Marvel will make movies for Thor, Guardians of the GalaXy and Ant-Man. I believe a 5th headlining movie for those 3 when I see it. Doctor Strange and Capt. Marvel are in the middle between the Mcu ogs and the newer faces, but only time will tell if they are in it for the long run as the X-Men. While Spider-Man is attached to Sony and would never be under Disney 100%. Scarlet Witch, I feel like it says a lot when certain characters only to get headline a series not a movie. I know she's getting a bigger break in Doctor Strange 2 but would we ever see a Scarlet Witch movie?

 

[chamber-music]

I wonder if Marvel will swap Ant-man and the Wasp Quantomania and Black Panther: Wakanda Forever's release dates.

Quantomania is already wrapped filming and in post-production but won't be coming out until summer 2023. Wakanda Forever still has filming to complete and is supposed to come out Fall of 2022.

There could be a issue with characters, plot points and narratives which means Marvel can't switch movies so easily now since some films are less standalone. It's even more complicated with the Disney plus shows also tied to the MCU.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I wonder if Marvel will swap Ant-man and the Wasp Quantomania and Black Panther: Wakanda Forever's release dates.

Quantomania is already wrapped filming and in post-production but won't be coming out until summer 2023. Wakanda Forever still has filming to complete and is supposed to come out Fall of 2022.

There could be a issue with characters, plot points and narratives which means Marvel can't switch movies so easily now since some films are less standalone. It's even more complicated with the Disney plus shows also tied to the MCU.

That is a good point. But I think more likely Wakanda Forever just ends up delayed again. Plus probably depends on which is more SFX heavy, where it fits into narrative, etc. Like, does Loki season 2 need to come before Ant-Man 3? Cause I don't think Loki is filming yet

 

[SirStrangefolk]

Does Dr. Strange have legacy character in the comics? He is the only one that I can't think of having a successor / clone.

For Doctor Strange I feel like it's not so much about the next "Doctor Strange" but more the next Sorcerer Supreme. As for legacy characters in the comics it's mostly his supporting sorcerer characters taking center stage. For example:

Jericho Drumm/Brother Voodoo became "Doctor Voodoo" and had his own comic

Spoiler

And just earlier this month Marvel announced that Clea would become the next sorcerer supreme

Spoiler

Additionally, Strange currently has an apprentice in the comics who maybe could one day become the next sorcerer supreme. Her name is Zelma Stanton

Spoiler

 

[psylockolussus]

Clea from that pic looks like a Dr. Strange clone.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

Clea from that pic looks like a Dr. Strange clone.

Yeah.. I think that's an unfortunate consequence of them believing a book about Clea will only sell - or at least sell significantly more - if people instantly recognize from the cover that it's a Doctor Strange related book. And unfortunately I think they may be right about that when it comes to the comics. If they introduce Clea in the movies and intend to make her a main character at some point I think (and hope) they would lean more into her own costume design. Unlike Captain America who is supposed to be a symbol, it makes sense for a character like Clea to dress in her own style. It's not like Strange took the Ancient One's yellow robes when he took over.

Spoiler

 

[SumT]

a clone is someone that looks 100% like that original.
Just using the same cape/costume doesnt turn someone into a "clone" lol