MCU vs thread....controversy and chaos

[InCali]

That doesn't make any sense. So Green Goblin outclasses him in EVERY single way but because Quill can dance, he wins?!!?

Yes. That is correct.

 

[Docker2.0]

I disagree that GG outclasses Star Lord on anything except strength and durability ( and he's not that durable, given how he died).

You seem to be preoccupied with superior might always triumphing. Sometimes overwhelming might is too much, but power is not as useful if the person wielding it is inexperienced and insane - like GG, compared to someone who was raised by mercenary/thieves and has a bunch of handy gadgets.

Skill and tactics are a big difference and these are weighted heavily on Star Lord's side - his weapons can probably at least harm or stun GG, so when you add that up I don't see GG doing very well.

We shall see how the votes fall.

 

[metaphysician]

Are you guys serious?! Green Goblin on his glyder is way more ruthless and wouldn't hesitate to kill Quill. Quill doesn't have a spider sense to save him either.

1. What does ruthlessness have to do with competency or power?

2. Since when has Starlord been especially reluctant to use deadly force?

Let me reiterate: is Norman stronger? Sure. This is 100% irrelevant unless they get in a fist fight, which Peter Quill is more than smart enough not to do. Is Norman tougher? Sure. This is pretty close to irrelevant, because he's not tough *enough* to make a real difference against Peter Quill's firepower. Those are the only unambiguous advantages Norman Osborne has. He is otherwise a dude, who might have some degree of enhanced reflexes, that largely probably makes up for his complete lack of combat training and skill, and a bunch of gadgets that give flight and firepower. This is someone entirely in Peter Quill's range to take, being as he is an exceptionally skillful gadgeteer with high firepower. And in a fight between two glass cannons, the victory typically is a matter of who is smarter and more skilled.

 

[Docker2.0]

1. What does ruthlessness have to do with competency or power?

2. Since when has Starlord been especially reluctant to use deadly force?

Let me reiterate: is Norman stronger? Sure. This is 100% irrelevant unless they get in a fist fight, which Peter Quill is more than smart enough not to do. Is Norman tougher? Sure. This is pretty close to irrelevant, because he's not tough *enough* to make a real difference against Peter Quill's firepower. Those are the only unambiguous advantages Norman Osborne has. He is otherwise a dude, who might have some degree of enhanced reflexes, that largely probably makes up for his complete lack of combat training and skill, and a bunch of gadgets that give flight and firepower. This is someone entirely in Peter Quill's range to take, being as he is an exceptionally skillful gadgeteer with high firepower. And in a fight between two glass cannons, the victory typically is a matter of who is smarter and more skilled.

Yeah but you forgot that Norman has gadgets on his glider as well. And he won't hesitate to kill. Not sure Quill will do that right out of the gate.

 

[Docker2.0]

Winner is Peter Quill. Next up:

Electro

vs the Sandman

Who you got peeps?

 

[InCali]

Winner is Peter Quill. Next up:

Electro

vs the Sandman

Who you got peeps?

Electro. One word. Glassman.

 

[Luigi]

Electro

Couple of zaps should be good enough to incapacitate him for a while.

 

[metaphysician]

Yeah but you forgot that Norman has gadgets on his glider as well. And he won't hesitate to kill. Not sure Quill will do that right out of the gate.

1. I already said Norman has gadgets. Peter *also* has gadgets, and they are generally better ones

2. "Willingness to kill" is not an advantage, it is a neutral attitude. And once again, *when has Peter Quill shown the slightest reluctance to use deadly force against suitable opponents*?

 

[metaphysician]

Sandman vs Electro:

Honestly, I don't care, they both suck. I suppose Electro would have the advantage, but did we ever see how he reacted to extremely large scale impact with insulating substances? Its not like its easy to turn sand into glass.

 

[Docker2.0]

1. I already said Norman has gadgets. Peter *also* has gadgets, and they are generally better ones

2. "Willingness to kill" is not an advantage, it is a neutral attitude. And once again, *when has Peter Quill shown the slightest reluctance to use deadly force against suitable opponents*?

 

[Batmannerism]

Honestly, that is perhaps the worst possible example of Quill being reluctant to kill. Even Thanos hesitated a little before killing Gamora to obtain the soul stone. Sane people usually struggle to kill a loved one.

Somehow I doubt Peter would be as hesitant against Green Goblin. He kills Sakaran soldiers without any hesitation in GOTG and in Endgame.

 

[Docker2.0]

Honestly, that is perhaps the worst possible example of Quill being reluctant to kill. Even Thanos hesitated a little before killing Gamora to obtain the soul stone. Sane people usually struggle to kill a loved one.

Somehow I doubt Peter would be as hesitant against Green Goblin. He kills Sakaran soldiers without any hesitation in GOTG and in Endgame.

Quill is a good guy. Good guys don't kill just like that. You know the rules. It's what separates them from the bad guys. A bigger question is why do you hate me so much?

 

[Batmannerism]

Quill is a good guy. Good guys don't kill just like that. You know the rules. It's what separates them from the bad guys. A bigger question is why do you hate me so much?

Have a look at GOTG vol 1. Quill fries the first two Sakarans he meets, on Morag, and during the raid on Ronan's ship he blasts holes in every Sakaran he meets ( interestingly he doesn't kill any of the guards on the Kyln during his escape).

I don't hate you, I didn't even hate your example....feel better? I don't think anyone hates you ( although some may hate some of these match ups).

 

[metaphysician]

Whereas me, I *do* hate your argument. Because its nonsense that doesn't even bother to engage with the source material in question. *cough*

Unless your intentionally doing it as farce, in which case. . . great job, you are keeping a straight face?

 

[InCali]

Sandman vs Electro:

Honestly, I don't care, they both suck. I suppose Electro would have the advantage, but did we ever see how he reacted to extremely large scale impact with insulating substances? Its not like its easy to turn sand into glass.

It would be easy for electro. If you have about 2KV (about 16X US wall voltage) and enough current (amperes), you can melt sand. In order for Electro to overcome the resistance of the air, he would need way more than that, but once the air is ionized, you need less voltage. Lightning is in the neighborhood of 100s of millions of volts and 10s of thousands of amperes. While I wouldn't expect Electro to be able to generate that much power, He could easily make Sandman = Glassman.

And, that, my friends, is just the way it is.....

 

[Docker2.0]

Electro wins. Next up:
The Lizard

vs Black Panther

Who you got peeps?

 

[Batmannerism]

It would be easy for electro. If you have about 2KV (about 16X US wall voltage) and enough current (amperes), you can melt sand. In order for Electro to overcome the resistance of the air, he would need way more than that, but once the air is ionized, you need less voltage. Lightning is in the neighborhood of 100s of millions of volts and 10s of thousands of amperes. While I wouldn't expect Electro to be able to generate that much power, He could easily make Sandman = Glassman.

And, that, my friends, is just the way it is.....

Thanks for that ! This is what I was waiting for, does Electro have enough power to melt sand ? Given I only remember a little bit of electrical stuff from high school, I honestly wasn't sure.

I thought that lightning was indeed very high in volts but low in current ( amps) which is why people can survive being struck by it sometimes - you can survive a lot of volts but 1 amp will kill you almost certainly.

Electro is going to have a lot of volts, and probably generates a lot if current within his own body. As such, do you think he might have to touch Sandman to melt him ?

Either way it seems pretty clear that Electro wins at least 9/10 unless somehow Sandman attacks by surprise and knocks him out in the first punch.

 

[Batmannerism]

Electro wins. Next up:
The Lizard

vs Black Panther

Who you got peeps?

Black Panther 9/10. I don't think Lizard can actually do him serious harm, whereas vibranium claws are going to definitely hurt Lizard. Maybe 1/10 times Lizard strangles BP with his tail.

 

[InCali]

Thanks for that ! This is what I was waiting for, does Electro have enough power to melt sand ? Given I only remember a little bit of electrical stuff from high school, I honestly wasn't sure.

I thought that lightning was indeed very high in volts but low in current ( amps) which is why people can survive being struck by it sometimes - you can survive a lot of volts but 1 amp will kill you almost certainly.

Electro is going to have a lot of volts, and probably generates a lot if current within his own body. As such, do you think he might have to touch Sandman to melt him ?

Either way it seems pretty clear that Electro wins at least 9/10 unless somehow Sandman attacks by surprise and knocks him out in the first punch.

High voltage will only not injure you if it’s current limited or if it doesn’t have enough power (wattage) to push the current through you. In the latter case, the voltage will drop off as it loses stored energy. Think of a crt tube. It’s a giant capacitor. If you touch the anode and you’re grounded, it will knock you on your ass if unplugged (limited reservoir of power) or possibly kill you if it’s plugged in because it can source wall power and won’t drain (basically).

Given the damage he can do, Electro has a pretty decent reservoir but would be in deep poopy against Iron Man; based on his fight with Thor.

Oh yeah. Surviving a strike has nothing to do with the current being limited. If you are hit by lightning, you will be injured. To what extent depends on how and where you are hit. Lightning can create ground currents that can jump up and bite you but traveling through the ground mitigates the voltage and hence current. A bolt from the sky would probably be bad news because you would take the full power of it. It also depends which organs are hit. Best advice is don’t get hit by lightning.

 

[InCali]

Electro wins. Next up:
The Lizard

vs Black Panther

Who you got peeps?

My man BP.

 

[Luigi]

Black Panther

He never freezes, especially against a giant lizard.

 

[metaphysician]

Lizard vs Black Panther:

Black Panther, basically every time. Lizard has at best a marginal physical advantage, which won't matter a wit versus T'Challa's superior skill and mostly-invulnerable armor. And that is just assuming the Civil War costume, and thus no absorption limit break attacks.

 

[Docker2.0]

Black Panther wins. Next up:

Hela

Vs Dormammu

Who you got peeps?

 

[Batmannerism]

Black Panther wins. Next up:

Hela

Vs Dormammu

Who you got peeps?

I'm going with Dormammu, as giant monsters seem to be Hela's kryptonite - also Dormammu is a cosmic entity with what seem to be nearly unlimited power ( although vulnerable to the time stone). This is assuming the fight takes place in the dark dimension, we don't know what limitations Dormammu has outside his own realm - but given that he can extend the Dark Dimension into other worlds, it seems likely she'd end up fighting him on his own turf.

Give Hela a couple of infinity stones and this might be a fair match, but ultimately I don't think she's powerful enough to kill him, whereas he might be powerful enough to kill her.

 

[metaphysician]

Hela vs Dormmamu:

Look, I like Hela, Hella is hella powerful *ahem*. She has no chance here. Based on the evidence available, Dormammu just isn't someone you can *fight*, anymore than you can fight "the universe". Even with an Infinity Stone, all Strange could do is trap him in an unpleasant state of being, and that depended on both a specific conceptual weakness *and* an Infinity Stone to apply it. Beyond that, Dormammu's feats:

1. Transform entire universes into extensions of his own/himself
2. Grant reality warping powers to those who pact with him
3. Casually kill Dr Strange over and over again

Or, another way to look at it: the Order of Kamar-Taj, despite having the millenia old, vastly powerful and experienced Ancient One, along with a small army of wizards and the collected occult relics and knowledge of humanity, and one Infinity Stone? Chose to build and maintain an elaborate planet-wide occult barrier to keep out Dormammu, rather than trying to fight him. This feels indicative of how they viewed their odds.