MCU vs thread....controversy and chaos

[Docker2.0]

I'm going to vote Scarlett Witch which makes the match end with a 2-2 ties.

Next up:
Quicksilver(he's in the MCU now)

vs the Sandman

Who you got peeps?

 

[Batmannerism]

I'm going to vote Scarlett Witch which makes the match end with a 2-2 ties.

Next up:
Quicksilver(he's in the MCU now)

vs the Sandman

Who you got peeps?

Odd match up. Kind of a stalemate because Sandman is never going to touch Quicksilver, and Quicksilver doesn't have the right kind of attacks to harm Sandman - unless he could generate enough friction to turn him to glass, or get a whole bunch of water to wash him away.

I'll vote Quicksilver, but only through some very creative use of his powers we haven't seen yet.

 

[Luigi]

I'm going to vote Scarlett Witch which makes the match end with a 2-2 ties.

Next up:
Quicksilver(he's in the MCU now)

vs the Sandman

Who you got peeps?

Quicksilver is in the MCU? I need to watch Wandavision ASAP.

 

[Batmannerism]

Quicksilver is in the MCU? I need to watch Wandavision ASAP.

Yeah

Spoiler

apparently he has a cameo in the most recent episode, and shows up at her door.

 

[Luigi]

Yeah

Spoiler

apparently he has a cameo in the most recent episode, and shows up at her door.

Huh, okay then. The huge cameo that Elizabeth Olsen has been teasing just got a lot more interesting.

 

[Fosterson]

Can I suggest that Fox QS be used VERY sparingly in these vs matchups?

He's just way too OP for the MCU. Like, the dude was casually dancing around a mansion as it was being destroyed by a massive explosion. Even ATJ Pietro would barely be able to even perceive him, let alone fight him effectively.

 

[metaphysician]

That's how speedsters roll. Being able to treat your opponents like a statue is what any decent speedster can do, at which point it largely revolves around "can they hurt you" and "do you have anything that can potentially hit him"? Almost nothing else matters when your opponent goes first, goes hundreds or thousands of times before you are aware, and because you are stationary can casually hit or avoid anything you do because its not moving at all or only barely. I could make a list of MCU characters who'd probably ( or absolutely ) beat Fox Quicksilver, but most of them would be fairly obvious "this character is too durable to be effected by anything Peter can do especially".

In this case. . . honestly, if Sandman were *smart*, I think he could win this fight. He is ridiculously hard to hurt in any lasting manner, and intelligent use of his powers could really screw over a speedster ( ie, fill the arena with a scathing sandstorm, cover the ground with a layer of his own sand so there is no surface that is not "me", etc ). However, Flint Marko definitely is *not* smart, and the fight at the end of the movie pretty strongly suggests that he does not have infinite capacity to reassemble himself, at least to the extent of avoiding a ten count KO. So, Quicksilver wins, after playing a game of "Let me invent a new way to splatter Sandman until he gets tired out" for a while.

Also, is it really appropriate to put that big of a spoiler in the matchup? Yes, you left out context, but its only been a few days.

 

[Batmannerism]

Calculate How Fast Quicksilver Is Moving in X-Men Apocalypse

This article calculates Pietro's speed at 188 kilometers per second, which is 676,800 kilometers per hour ( only 406,800 miles per hour).

So a lot slower than light, which is about 300,000 kilometers, but if that's actually super speed, rather than some form of time control, then the sonic booms and winds he would generate would flatten buildings, kill anything living and blow Sandman apart - but if we use physics from the Xmen world ( which are nonexistent, because he would have been punching Apocalypse travelling at speeds where his punch would hit like a meteor, and hundreds of blows would of landed before Apocalypse could physically react to the first one), and none of that happens, he would still have lots of time to do something clever before Sandman could come close to hitting him.

 

[Fosterson]

That's how speedsters roll.

True, although Fox QS is considerably more OP than most. If you contrast him with MCU Pietro, who, while fast, couldn't simply freeze time and also showed signs of fatigue, the difference becomes clear.

 

[Docker2.0]

Can I suggest that Fox QS be used VERY sparingly in these vs matchups?

He's just way too OP for the MCU. Like, the dude was casually dancing around a mansion as it was being destroyed by a massive explosion. Even ATJ Pietro would barely be able to even perceive him, let alone fight him effectively.

One of Flash's main rogues is Captain Boomerang...........Yeah.........a guy who just throws boomerangs. So speedsters are not unbeatable if they go up against the right guys.

 

[InCali]

Quicksilver is in the MCU? I need to watch Wandavision ASAP.

I won't say why, but I'm pissed about Pietro showing up. I was looking forward to his return....now not so much. Boooo.

Still Pietro wins. Although if he hit Sandman at the speeds being discussed, his hand would be reduced to mush. He could hit him with a pipe I suppose.

 

[Batmannerism]

One of Flash's main rogues is Captain Boomerang...........Yeah.........a guy who just throws boomerangs. So speedsters are not unbeatable if they go up against the right guys.

Let's be honest super speed is basically plot armour - it works to protect you from everything, until the story needs you to get hit.

If Flash has the reflexes to move at near light speed, then even seeing or hearing or even feeling a boomerang coming towards him for a fraction of a second is enough time for him to avoid it. Unless he's completely distracted there's just no way to hit him.

Superman has super fast reflexes ( otherwise he couldn't catch bullets or maneuver while flying at great speeds) , except when the story needs him not to. Super speed is his least consistent power, because if it works the way it's described very few of his enemies could ever lay a hand on him ( except other kryptonians). How does Batman ever hit him ? IGNFI !

But back in the 1950s no one cared about that, and tbh most people don't now.

As for Apocalypse, maybe he had other senses that allowed him to detect Pietro's movements or can slow down his perception of time, but really he would feel Pietro's punches as machine gun burst of rapid impacts, he wouldn't have time to physically react to them, much less do anything else in response - and unless his power to move earth makes Earth molecules suddenly capable of moving at over 400,000 mph, he could never have trapped or tripped Pietro, who's simply moving too fast.
And then there's the pressure wave he'd create which would.probably flatten Cairo and kill everyone around... buy hey , superhero physics right !

 

[Spider-Aziz]

All Quicksilver can do is run away, cause Sandman can't be downed by a succession of fast attacks.

QUICKSILVER will only win if they are near a body of water or a massive explosion.




And normally Sandman will just smother and defeat Electro, unless Max moves fast enough to evade him, and he cannot generate enough heat to turn all of Sandman to glass.

 

[metaphysician]

Calculate How Fast Quicksilver Is Moving in X-Men Apocalypse

This article calculates Pietro's speed at 188 kilometers per second, which is 676,800 kilometers per hour ( only 406,800 miles per hour).

So a lot slower than light, which is about 300,000 kilometers, but if that's actually super speed, rather than some form of time control, then the sonic booms and winds he would generate would flatten buildings, kill anything living and blow Sandman apart - but if we use physics from the Xmen world ( which are nonexistent, because he would have been punching Apocalypse travelling at speeds where his punch would hit like a meteor, and hundreds of blows would of landed before Apocalypse could physically react to the first one), and none of that happens, he would still have lots of time to do something clever before Sandman could come close to hitting him.

Eh, speedsters as a rule ignore physics except when they have specific need or desire to do otherwise. I'm fine with that.

That said, you don't really need to calculate the specific kinetic energy that his attacks should have. Its easy enough to go "Okay, here's roughly how durable Apocalypse is, here's how much he was effected by those attacks". More than good enough for me to go "Okay, if Peter is actually aiming to hurt someone with his fists, he's hitting with way more force than any of the attacks we saw disrupting and wearing down Sandman." Or, honestly, any attacks in the original Spider-man trilogy, period; Fox Apocalypse may not have ultimately been *that* powerful, but he was still way more durable than anything in those movies aside from Sandman himself, maybe.

( As an aside, I am actually willing to grant some credit for the Apocalypse Quicksilver takedown. Compared to most "Speedster forgets to speed" scenes, Apoc didn't just randomly hit Peter, he was a helpless statue until he did. . . something. . . with his eyes, and then was still stationery until his transmutation attack bound Peter's leg. To me at least, it read plausibly as "Apoc had to shift his power pool around to give himself something like mental superspeed in order to target an attack". Which I'm willing to buy is something he could do. )

 

[InCali]

All Quicksilver can do is run away, cause Sandman can't be downed by a succession of fast attacks.

QUICKSILVER will only win if they are near a body of water or a massive explosion.




And normally Sandman will just smother and defeat Electro, unless Max moves fast enough to evade him, and he cannot generate enough heat to turn all of Sandman to glass.

While we don't rely on the laws of physics in this thread (what fun would THAT be?), Electro should certainly be able to generate plenty of heat and have plenty of voltage/power to melt sand....unless Sandman is made up of very "special" sand.

 

[Docker2.0]

All Quicksilver can do is run away, cause Sandman can't be downed by a succession of fast attacks.

QUICKSILVER will only win if they are near a body of water or a massive explosion.




And normally Sandman will just smother and defeat Electro, unless Max moves fast enough to evade him, and he cannot generate enough heat to turn all of Sandman to glass.

 

[Docker2.0]

Quicksilve wins. Next up:

Quicksilver

vs Teenage Negasonic Warhead

Who you got peeps?

 

[InCali]

All Quicksilver can do is run away, cause Sandman can't be downed by a succession of fast attacks.

QUICKSILVER will only win if they are near a body of water or a massive explosion.




And normally Sandman will just smother and defeat Electro, unless Max moves fast enough to evade him, and he cannot generate enough heat to turn all of Sandman to glass.

What's QS going to do to SM if they are near a body of water? Make a sandcastle out of him?

 

[Batmannerism]

What's QS going to do to SM if they are near a body of water? Make a sandcastle out of him?

Run really fast in a circle to create a vortex which would then form a water spout and wash Sandman away.

The Flash does stuff like that all the time - and since physics doesn't matter....

 

[Batmannerism]

Quicksilve wins. Next up:

Quicksilver

vs Teenage Negasonic Warhead

Who you got peeps?

Quicksilver- he avoids her blast and then punches her, game over.

 

[InCali]

Run really fast in a circle to create a vortex which would then form a water spout and wash Sandman away.

The Flash does stuff like that all the time - and since physics doesn't matter....

I prefer sandcastles......

In fact, I'm going to get my little shovel and pail, go down to the beach and defeat SM.

 

[Batmannerism]

( As an aside, I am actually willing to grant some credit for the Apocalypse Quicksilver takedown. Compared to most "Speedster forgets to speed" scenes, Apoc didn't just randomly hit Peter, he was a helpless statue until he did. . . something. . . with his eyes, and then was still stationery until his transmutation attack bound Peter's leg. To me at least, it read plausibly as "Apoc had to shift his power pool around to give himself something like mental superspeed in order to target an attack". Which I'm willing to buy is something he could do. )

Okay, I can buy that Apocalypse can withstand a bunch of superspeed punches, in the comics he's almost indestructible and in the film he had a healing factor that allowed him to recover instantly from having his throat slit.


I can buy that he can give himself the power to perceive Quicksilver moving, and if he then gave himself sufficient speed to grab Quicksilver that's fair.

But to get the earth particles to trap Quicksilver he has to get them to move fast enough to form around his leg - and that I don't buy because they'd have to be moving at least as fast as Quicksilver ( as above over 400,000 mph) or faster - if he put a wall of rock in front of Quicksilver by predicting precisely where he was going to be, that would have made more sense, even then the rock wall would have to form almost instantaneously, or Quicksilver would have passed it had time to avoid it.

It would be the same as if he fired a gun at Quicksilver because unless he fired at precisely where Quicksilver was going to be ( and essential Quicksilver runs into the bullet- which would be stationary compared to him) well, see what I mean.

 

[Docker2.0]

Quicksilver- he avoids her blast and then punches her, game over.

She may not be as fast as him but she has super speed as well. You make it sound like she is molasses. She's not to far behind him at all.

 

[Batmannerism]

She may not be as fast as him but she has super speed as well. You make it sound like she is molasses. She's not to far behind him at all.

Yeah but only in a short burst in a straight line , it's not really superspeed, more like jet propulsion- she's basically Cannonball from the New Mutants comic but changed to a female snarky goth, rather than a male Kentucky hillbilly ( although she still manages to be a better character than NSTWH from the comics).

Quicksilver can dodge bullets when he sees them coming - and she's not exactly inconspicuous with the big glowing ball of energy. He's almost got exactly the right power to beat her, all he has to do is wait for her to power up and blast away and then smack her. In the films it takes a second or two for her to power up, that's all the time in the world for Quicksilver.

 

[Fosterson]

Okay, I can buy that Apocalypse can withstand a bunch of superspeed punches, in the comics he's almost indestructible and in the film he had a healing factor that allowed him to recover instantly from having his throat slit.


I can buy that he can give himself the power to perceive Quicksilver moving, and if he then gave himself sufficient speed to grab Quicksilver that's fair.

But to get the earth particles to trap Quicksilver he has to get them to move fast enough to form around his leg - and that I don't buy because they'd have to be moving at least as fast as Quicksilver ( as above over 400,000 mph) or faster - if he put a wall of rock in front of Quicksilver by predicting precisely where he was going to be, that would have made more sense, even then the rock wall would have to form almost instantaneously, or Quicksilver would have passed it had time to avoid it.

It would be the same as if he fired a gun at Quicksilver because unless he fired at precisely where Quicksilver was going to be ( and essential Quicksilver runs into the bullet- which would be stationary compared to him) well, see what I mean.

It might have helped if Apoc's powers had been more clearly defined in the movie. Because tbh he really just seemed to have whatever power Singer needed him to have at any given moment.