MCU vs thread....controversy and chaos

[Luigi]

Quicksilver

Cuz he's quick. And Negasonic is limited to only charging forward, which makes it easy for Pietro to dodge her attacks.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

While we don't rely on the laws of physics in this thread (what fun would THAT be?), Electro should certainly be able to generate plenty of heat and have plenty of voltage/power to melt sand....unless Sandman is made up of very "special" sand.

Yes

Yes
I mean, I've been held hostage in the kitchen tasting @InCali's recipes and cleaning @DKDetective's workplace.

What's QS going to do to SM if they are near a body of water? Make a sandcastle out of him?

Yes.

Run really fast in a circle to create a vortex which would then form a water spout and wash Sandman away.

The Flash does stuff like that all the time - and since physics doesn't matter....

Exactly.

Quicksilver- he avoids her blast and then punches her, game over.

Yes.

 

[metaphysician]

It might have helped if Apoc's powers had been more clearly defined in the movie. Because tbh he really just seemed to have whatever power Singer needed him to have at any given moment.

Pretty much. Like, yes, its a real issue of "how fast would the matter move", but its a fairly minor issue compared to "can this attack actually be targeted at all". My take is, its matter transmutation, we know Apocalypse has extremely powerful matter transmutation, and the physics for such is funky anyway. So, I am willing to buy that Apoc could do a "fast" transmutation attack wherein "ground" turns to "ground shaped as a shackle" with enough speed to catch Quicksilver, especially since its not like he was effecting a huge amount of matter. Trading scale for swiftness seems reasonable to me, where instead of shaping countless tons of matter with visible slowness, he's shaping a few pounds of matter "instantly".

Anyway, Quicksilver vs NTW? Quicksilver is going to take it. I've seen both Deadpool movies, and Negasonic Teenage Warhead does *not* demonstrate superspeed in either. Note: velocity of flight is *not* superspeed, superspeed is both movement *and reflexes*. She could fly moderately fast, in a straight line, but didn't demonstrate any level of reflexes or perception above "trained normal human". Now, she could charge herself up with energy and make herself untouchable, or fly into the air, but these all have an easy answer of "dodge out of the way until she gets tired". And NTW didn't really seem like she could maintain her energy charge indefinitely.

The only way she wins this fight is if the arena has a hard impassible edge, and also is smaller than her biggest explosion. Which would be cheating.

 

[Batmannerism]

Pretty much. Like, yes, its a real issue of "how fast would the matter move", but its a fairly minor issue compared to "can this attack actually be targeted at all". My take is, its matter transmutation, we know Apocalypse has extremely powerful matter transmutation, and the physics for such is funky anyway. So, I am willing to buy that Apoc could do a "fast" transmutation attack wherein "ground" turns to "ground shaped as a shackle" with enough speed to catch Quicksilver, especially since its not like he was effecting a huge amount of matter. Trading scale for swiftness seems reasonable to me, where instead of shaping countless tons of matter with visible slowness, he's shaping a few pounds of matter instantly

Given how ridiculous XMen physics are, this seems a strange point for me to be stuck on, but anyway it's a slow morning soooooo..

Does your scale trade really work? Think of the energy a crane expends to lift a huge mass slowly ( e.g. a tower crane consuming 244 kW to lift, up to 18 tons) then think of the energy a cyclotron or even the LHC takes to accelerate a few particles to the speed of light. Which is greater ? Well, the LHC draws 1/3 the power of the city of Geneva ( about 120 Mw so a lot more than the crane) .Apocalypse doesn't have to move particles at light speed ( significantly slower, but still unimaginably fast - like over 400 times the speed of sound).
What I'm trying to say is that just because he's moving a small amount of material doesn't mean it takes less energy than moving a large amount, if the speed the material is moved at is sufficiently high.

For Apocalypse to transmute air into rock - or move particles of rock ( mostly silicon) at sufficient speed to catch Quicksilver ( 400,000+ mph, moving so fast he could run to the moon and back in about 20 minutes) to me that's just ridiculous - the amount of energy it would take to move them, and then stop them moving would be unimaginable.

The only way I can see this working is if Apocalypse can use his matter manipulation power in concert with a power to control time so that he can both perceive Quicksilver and manipulate matter at a speed that is relative to Quicksilver.

Regardless of how he did it, IMO its dumb, in a film with plenty of other dumb stuff.

 

[Luigi]

Regardless of how he did it, IMO its dumb, in a film with plenty of other dumb stuff.

Or how they teased the Quicksilver/Magneto relationship in DOFP and did absolutely nothing with it in Apocalypse.

 

[Batmannerism]

Or how they teased the Quicksilver/Magneto relationship in DOFP and did absolutely nothing with it in Apocalypse.

Didn't Quicksilver give Magneto some meaningful gazes during the final act ? Kind of like he was going to tell him he was probably his son...and then decided not to. So, not much really.

 

[Docker2.0]

Quicksilver wins. Next up:


Luke Cage

vs Green Goblin

Who you got peeps?

 

[Batmannerism]

Quicksilver wins. Next up:


Luke Cage

vs Green Goblin

Who you got peeps?

Luke Cage.

He's waayyyyy more durable than the Goblin, probably stronger and a badass in general.
True he's going to eat a bunch of gunfire from the glider and probably get knocked around by some pumpkin bombs, but if he can get a hand on the glider or Gobby, then it's game over.

Strong as the Goblin is he's a nutcase which sometimes works for him and sometimes against him in a fight. He has the advantage of mobility and ranged weapons here, but he's not particularly smart, tactics wise so they aren't as big an advantage as they would be for someone less crazy.

 

[Docker2.0]

I don't know man............I'm not sure Luke Cage is stronger than Spiderman and definitely not more agile bug Green Goblin is equal to Spidey. That combination maybe to much for Luke.

 

[Batmannerism]

I don't know man............I'm not sure Luke Cage is stronger than Spiderman and definitely not more agile bug Green Goblin is equal to Spidey. That combination maybe to much for Luke.

Goblin was killed by his own glider blades, Cage is bulletproof. How is Goblin as agile as Spider Man ,? Strong, maybe but there's nothing in that movie to suggest he's as nimble as Spidey.

He goes toe to toe with a battered Spider Man, who had expended a bunch of energy holding up a team car, and still got his ass handed to him once Spidey got angry.

 

[Docker2.0]

Goblin was killed by his own glider blades, Cage is bulletproof. How is Goblin as agile as Spider Man ,? Strong, maybe but there's nothing in that movie to suggest he's as nimble as Spidey.

He goes toe to toe with a battered Spider Man, who had expended a bunch of energy holding up a team car, and still got his ass handed to him once Spidey got angry.

Dodging all kinds of crap and not to mention dodging Spiderman's punches and webs.

 

[Luigi]

Luke Cage

Gobby will probably have the advantage at first by flying around on his glider and shooting at Luke. However, he'll eventually close the distance due to becoming frustrated that he's not harming Luke and that'll be the opening that Luke needs to win the fight.

 

[metaphysician]

Given how ridiculous XMen physics are, this seems a strange point for me to be stuck on, but anyway it's a slow morning soooooo..

Does your scale trade really work? Think of the energy a crane expends to lift a huge mass slowly ( e.g. a tower crane consuming 244 kW to lift, up to 18 tons) then think of the energy a cyclotron or even the LHC takes to accelerate a few particles to the speed of light. Which is greater ? Well, the LHC draws 1/3 the power of the city of Geneva ( about 120 Mw so a lot more than the crane) .Apocalypse doesn't have to move particles at light speed ( significantly slower, but still unimaginably fast - like over 400 times the speed of sound).
What I'm trying to say is that just because he's moving a small amount of material doesn't mean it takes less energy than moving a large amount, if the speed the material is moved at is sufficiently high.

For Apocalypse to transmute air into rock - or move particles of rock ( mostly silicon) at sufficient speed to catch Quicksilver ( 400,000+ mph, moving so fast he could run to the moon and back in about 20 minutes) to me that's just ridiculous - the amount of energy it would take to move them, and then stop them moving would be unimaginable.

The only way I can see this working is if Apocalypse can use his matter manipulation power in concert with a power to control time so that he can both perceive Quicksilver and manipulate matter at a speed that is relative to Quicksilver.

Regardless of how he did it, IMO its dumb, in a film with plenty of other dumb stuff.

The problem with all these physics calculations is that Apocalypse is already doing matter transmutation, turning one form of matter into another. That kind of transformation involves nuclear energies *far* exceeding any relevant for "physically move one bulk of matter to another location". I just don't see it as being especially meaningful.

 

[metaphysician]

Luke Cage vs Green Goblin:

Hmm. The problem I have is. . . we know GG has ranged attacks, but from what I recall of the movie, its really kind of iffy how *powerful* they are. Ultimately, Spider-man is a glass cannon, and "explosion messed him up but didn't kill him" doesn't require much more than your typical Hollywood grenade. So I honestly can't say whether Norman could stand off and strafe Cage to death. In close, Norman *probably* is stronger, and in theory *should* be faster. The sticking point is that his only speed feats IIRC are "gets into fights with Spider-man", and that's always a rather dubious argument when "fast character forgets to fast" is such a common cliche.

I still lean to Green Goblin winning, overall. Its just, this relies a lot on shaky best guesses rather than anything really solid.

 

[InCali]

Luke Cage because he has the same initials that I do.

 

[Docker2.0]

Luke Cage vs Green Goblin:

Hmm. The problem I have is. . . we know GG has ranged attacks, but from what I recall of the movie, its really kind of iffy how *powerful* they are. Ultimately, Spider-man is a glass cannon, and "explosion messed him up but didn't kill him" doesn't require much more than your typical Hollywood grenade. So I honestly can't say whether Norman could stand off and strafe Cage to death. In close, Norman *probably* is stronger, and in theory *should* be faster. The sticking point is that his only speed feats IIRC are "gets into fights with Spider-man", and that's always a rather dubious argument when "fast character forgets to fast" is such a common cliche.

I still lean to Green Goblin winning, overall. Its just, this relies a lot on shaky best guesses rather than anything really solid.

 

[Docker2.0]

Luke Cage because he has the same initials that I do.

 

[InCali]

Luke Cage vs Green Goblin:

Hmm. The problem I have is. . . we know GG has ranged attacks, but from what I recall of the movie, its really kind of iffy how *powerful* they are. Ultimately, Spider-man is a glass cannon, and "explosion messed him up but didn't kill him" doesn't require much more than your typical Hollywood grenade. So I honestly can't say whether Norman could stand off and strafe Cage to death. In close, Norman *probably* is stronger, and in theory *should* be faster. The sticking point is that his only speed feats IIRC are "gets into fights with Spider-man", and that's always a rather dubious argument when "fast character forgets to fast" is such a common cliche.

I still lean to Green Goblin winning, overall. Its just, this relies a lot on shaky best guesses rather than anything really solid.

Oh...you mean as opposed to the solid, factual foundation the rest of the opinions in this thread are based on?

 

[InCali]

See my post just below......edit.....I mean above.....wait.....what was I saying above and below???

 

[Docker2.0]

See my post just below......edit.....I mean above.....wait.....what was I saying above and below???

 

[Batmannerism]

The problem with all these physics calculations is that Apocalypse is already doing matter transmutation, turning one form of matter into another. That kind of transformation involves nuclear energies *far* exceeding any relevant for "physically move one bulk of matter to another location". I just don't see it as being especially meaningful.

That's a fair point, if he's actually transmuting matter and not just assembling loose dust particles into a solid mass ( almost a change of state but not a chemical change ).


If he's got the power to perceive Quicksilver's movements and both transmute and move particles at a quick enough speed to catch Quicksilver then he should be able to pretty much instantaneously disintegrate all the Xmen - except maybe Phoenix who's pretty much a god.

I've actually lost track of what the original point of this discussion was, so I'm going to say " It's still stupid that Apocalypse can catch Quicksilver" and move on.

 

[metaphysician]

Oh...you mean as opposed to the solid, factual foundation the rest of the opinions in this thread are based on?

Most of the other fights ultimate hinge around much clearer benchmarking. You don't need to know the exact bench press weight for the Hulk to go "Okay, he punched out a skyscraper-sized flying monster that always flies through and casually destroys skyscrapers, this is an enormously better strength feats than anything _____ has ever shown."

 

[Docker2.0]

Luke Cage wins. Next up:

Ajax

vs Daredevil

Who you got peeps?

 

[Batmannerism]

Luke Cage wins. Next up:

Ajax

vs Daredevil

Who you got peeps?

Ajax, although it depends on his weapons. I don't think Matt can hit him hard enough to drop him if it's just hand to hand.
I'd like Matt to win, but I don't think his skill advantage is enough to beat Francis.

 

[Kyle Rayner]

I've been watching Smallville and Lucifer. What I'm surprised about is how time has passed with the show. There has been some powerful moments on the show. Tom Welling did such an incredible job on both of those shows that I wonder, why hasn't Marvel approached him? The one character that comes to mind that he could play is Spider-Man's arch nemesis Norman Osborn. #TomWelling4NormanOsborn
#Marveljustthingaboutit