MCU vs thread....controversy and chaos

[Fosterson]

White Vision easily. He's way too strong and durable.

 

[Iceman]

Hmmm...... I'm going with White Vision 6/10.
If he can detect them he can kill them both, we know that Vision can stagger Giant Man, and he has ranged weapons, super strength, flight and the phasing attack/defense. More importantly he's a robot, so he can lose an arm or leg and probably still function.

At least 4/10 times Ant Man and Wasp come up with something clever enough to take him out.
E.g. shrinking down super small, getting inside him and doing enough damage to disable him.
However, most times he would simply phase and they wouldn't be able to harm him and might simply just fall out of him.

So Vision.

Yeah, the phasing I think is the key weapon to defend against those sneaky attacks. I back White Vision too.

 

[InCali]

Nebula and Gamora win. Next up:

Antman and the Wasp

vs White Vision

Who you got peeps?!................and Incali................you ain't my peeps any more. Just cause.......

Well color me devastated.....

AM and Wasp.

 

[Docker2.0]

I'm voting Antman and the Wasp leaving us with a 3-3 tie.

Next up:
The Ancient One

vs Darkhold Scarlett Witch

Who you got peeps? .............you to inCali....

 

[Batmannerism]

I'm voting Antman and the Wasp leaving us with a 3-3 tie.

Next up:
The Ancient One

vs Darkhold Scarlett Witch

Who you got peeps? .............you to inCali....

Darkhold Wanda wins - even before the Darkhold she took out a 400 year old witch with ease. The only way TAO wins is with a surprise attack astral punch or banishment to the mirror dimension.

Wanda is easily the most powerful MCU character.

 

[Docker2.0]

Isn't the Ancient One way older and the sorcery supreme? Plus she draws her energy from the dark dimension....................just saying.........it's not that one sided.

 

[Fosterson]

Darkhold Wanda wins - even before the Darkhold she took out a 400 year old witch with ease. The only way TAO wins is with a surprise attack astral punch or banishment to the mirror dimension.

Wanda is easily the most powerful MCU character.

Pretty sure Dormammu, Prime Surtur, Ego and full IG Thanos are more powerful.

Agree Wanda wins this though.

 

[Batmannerism]

Pretty sure Dormammu, Prime Surtur, Ego and full IG Thanos are more powerful.

Agree Wanda wins this though.

What I should have said is " Wanda is easily the most powerful MCU character now."

Dormammu is forbidden from entering the real world, Thanos, Ego and Surtur are dead, as is Hela, therefore none of them are competition for Wanda - who can literally rewrite reality itself.

 

[metaphysician]

The Ancient One vs Wanda:

Gonna give this to the Ancient One. One, the only evidence we have of the Scarlet Witch at least *theoretically* being more powerful, is Agatha, who is a massively unreliable source to say the least. Two, the Ancient One has at least a thousand years of experience on Wanda.

The fight is going to go the same way the last fight between the two went: Wanda pulls off some impressively powerful moves, the Ancient One counters them deftly, and then Wanda gets utterly blindsided by some esoteric attack she can barely comprehend that ends the fight. Only, I will be fair, given Wanda's greater exposure to magic and the weird aspects of her powers, I will say she probably does manage to counter the *first* such esoteric blindside. Not the second, however.

( Also, again, as a rough if slightly indirect benchmark: Dr Strange, who is almost certainly less skilled and powerful than the Ancient One at this point being a thousand years less experienced, managed a fairly prolonged fight against Thanos *with three Infinity Stones*. Wanda is certainly more versatile than she used to be, but as things currently stand she does not seem to be more *powerful* than she already was, she just knows she can use her powers for things more esoteric than the energy effects she did before. )

 

[Luigi]

Ancient One

This fight hinges on who's the quicker draw and have to say that it's The Ancient One. And she's got thousand of years of knowledge and experience, which Wanda can't compare to.

 

[Batmannerism]

The Ancient One vs Wanda:

Gonna give this to the Ancient One. One, the only evidence we have of the Scarlet Witch at least *theoretically* being more powerful, is Agatha, who is a massively unreliable source to say the least. Two, the Ancient One has at least a thousand years of experience on Wanda.

The fight is going to go the same way the last fight between the two went: Wanda pulls off some impressively powerful moves, the Ancient One counters them deftly, and then Wanda gets utterly blindsided by some esoteric attack she can barely comprehend that ends the fight. Only, I will be fair, given Wanda's greater exposure to magic and the weird aspects of her powers, I will say she probably does manage to counter the *first* such esoteric blindside. Not the second, however.

( Also, again, as a rough if slightly indirect benchmark: Dr Strange, who is almost certainly less skilled and powerful than the Ancient One at this point being a thousand years less experienced, managed a fairly prolonged fight against Thanos *with three Infinity Stones*. Wanda is certainly more versatile than she used to be, but as things currently stand she does not seem to be more *powerful* than she already was, she just knows she can use her powers for things more esoteric than the energy effects she did before. )

I disagree with you entirely.

First, The Ancient One is only about 700 years old. MCU puts her birthday at around 1317. Not that 300 years give or take is going to make much difference in a comparison of experience, I accept.

Second, just because the Ancient One was around a long time doesn't necessarily mean the was the most powerful sorcerer supreme- perhaps mystical threats during her tenure weren't particularly powerful. In Endgame she notes that Strange is " supposed to be the best of us."
You can at least infer that she suggesting that Strange will become a greater Wizard than herself.
Something supported by Wong's assertion that Strange had a natural affinity for the Mystic Arts.
My point is that the comparison with Strange is complicated, as it may be that by Infinity War Strange was the more powerful magician. There are many people who do jobs for a long time, but never progress beyond a certain level of competency, due to lack of talent.

Third, IMO the Ancient One's feats are not that impressive given that she is awesome against Chitauri ( so was Black Widow and Hawkeye) Kaecillius' thugs but ends up getting shanked by him. The astral punch is probably her most potent weapon, against a physical opponent- but that may not work as well against Wanda who is telepathic and telekinetic as well as magically gifted.

The Ancient One also had the Time Stone, which allowed her to see possible futures and do all the other cool things it allowed Strange to do - which probably accounted for some of her successes as Sorcerer Supreme. In this fight I'm assuming she doesn't have this.

Fourth, Wanda nearly crushed Thanos to a pulp. Using a similar attack against the Ancient One is a guaranteed fight ender because a) AO would be paste almost instantly b) like Strange she cannot, or at least has not demonstrated being able to, perform magic while restrained, that attack immobilized Thanos, so she's not going to be able to do anything in response.
Wanda's powers are not subject to this limitation- and can be used in an area effect.


Finally, the implication of AO besting Wanda is that Kaecillius could do the same, and I have great trouble accepting that.

Regardless, the poll will decide.

 

[Fosterson]

I disagree with you entirely.

First, The Ancient One is only about 700 years old. MCU puts her birthday at around 1317. Not that 300 years give or take is going to make much difference in a comparison of experience, I accept.

Second, just because the Ancient One was around a long time doesn't necessarily mean the was the most powerful sorcerer supreme- perhaps mystical threats during her tenure weren't particularly powerful. In Endgame she notes that Strange is " supposed to be the best of us."
You can at least infer that she suggesting that Strange will become a greater Wizard than herself.

While I agree with you that Wanda wins here, I'm not sure that I'd put much weight behind this statement. "Best" doesn't necessarily mean more powerful. It could just mean that Strange was more morally righteous than her (due to her drawing power from the Dark Dimension).

These sorts of vague statements aren't all that useful in battle scenarios like this. For example, Odin tells Thor that "You're stronger" in Ragnarok even though Odin at his peak was clearly far above current Thor.

But overall, I think the only way the Ancient One can win here is if she traps Wanda in the Mirror Dimension. I don't think Wanda could break out of it since Thanos needed the Power Stone to do it.

But based on her limited showings, it doesn;t seem like The Ancient One typically leads with that move so she probably won't here either.

 

[Batmannerism]

While I agree with you that Wanda wins here, I'm not sure that I'd put much weight behind this statement. "Best" doesn't necessarily mean more powerful. It could just mean that Strange was more morally righteous than her (due to her drawing power from the Dark Dimension).

These sorts of vague statements aren't all that useful in battle scenarios like this. For example, Odin tells Thor that "You're stronger" in Ragnarok even though Odin at his peak was clearly far above current Thor.

But overall, I think the only way the Ancient One can win here is if she traps Wanda in the Mirror Dimension. I don't think Wanda could break out of it since Thanos needed the Power Stone to do it.

But based on her limited showings, it doesn;t seem like The Ancient One typically leads with that move so she probably won't here either.

To me the Odin quote meant that Odin believed that Thor was braver more moral as a leader and could make the hard choice of allowing Asgard to be destroyed, thus ending the threat of Hela, rather than taking a solution such as his, and merely delaying the inevitable catastrophe- also that Thor took on Hela face to face, while Odin sent the Vakyrie to their certain death to hold her off.

I don't think it should be taken literally that Thor was physically stronger ( although given Odin's age he might have been) or had more godlike power, given that Odin could cast as spell and depower Thor.

 

[InCali]

I'm voting Antman and the Wasp leaving us with a 3-3 tie.

Next up:
The Ancient One

vs Darkhold Scarlett Witch

Who you got peeps? .............you to inCali....

callin' me out, huh?

I like Wanda better and she's really good looking so I would normally pick her (you all have your logic and I have mine.....and mine is way more fun), BUT, I think TAO wins. While Wanda is really powerful, her power seems more manipulation than interdimensional travel and magic magic. Maybe I'm missing something because I didn't really like WandaVision that much and wasn't paying attention. I think TAO just zips her off to some joint that isn't even in our universe. Game over.

 

[Docker2.0]

I agree! Wanda wins so that makes us end with another 3-3 tie!

Next up:
U.S. Agent

vs Dr Octopus

Who you got peeps?

 

[Batmannerism]

I agree! Wanda wins so that makes us end with another 3-3 tie!

Next up:
U.S. Agent

vs Dr Octopus

Who you got peeps?

Super soldier serum Walker either shoots Ock in the face or decapitates him with the Shield - flawless victory.

More realistically, Walker puts Ock on the defensive with gunfire. Then as Ock advances, throws the shield for a ricochet shot which hits Ock in the back of the head. Assuming Ock doesn't have his plot armour from Spider Man 2 then any kick or punch from Walker should disable him.

I would say that even if Ock manages to get some licks in, Walker's experience as a special forces soldier with 3 CMRs means that any opportunity to strike, lethally, will be taken.

The only reason Ock might last longer against the real Cap, is because real Cap wouldn't be trying to kill him straight away - Walker probably would.

 

[Docker2.0]

No guns man. Geez, we trying to make this a fair fight. If it was the Punisher I get it but still......................

 

[Batmannerism]

No guns man. Geez, we trying to make this a fair fight. If it was the Punisher I get it but still......................

Then I still go with Walker. He's shown that he can bend steel pipe, so he's pretty damn strong- add that, the speed and toughness of the SSS plus advanced military training, and the shield.

Too many advantages against a guy with a strong offense but limited defence.

 

[metaphysician]

Walker vs Ock:

I actually disagree, as things stand. I mean, someone with the SSS should be able to beat Doc Ock, and in theory Walker is quite skilled. The problem is. . . ultimately, Walker is kind of a meathead, and in particular seems to be reacting pretty badly to receiving the serum. Against a glass cannon like Ock, tactics and tactical sense matter more than raw power. Subject to later appearances, sure, but I would currently vote that most of the time, Walker Cap loses due to thinking he's more powerful and invincible than he actually is, and eating a tentacle to the face or torso. Call it. . . 7/10 for Doc Ock. It might go lower if later episodes show Walker demonstrating skilled use of his new powers, it could go higher if Walker's breakdown goes especially breakdown-y.

( And no, I don't really think the pistol makes that much difference. Those tentacles are both fast and react at least partially outside Otto's control, and Walker hasn't exactly shown himself to be some Hawkeye or Bullseye level marksman. I generally think that Walker would run out of bullets before Ock gets hit, especially if Ock goes full defense. Getting in a solid shot could be one of the ways Walker takes some of his 3/10, mind. )

 

[InCali]

Doc Ock....I can't stand Walker. Plus, Doc Ock sort of sounds like @Docker2.0 (although that really doesn't work in his favor because he's almost always wrong....see Wanda v TAO).

 

[Docker2.0]

Doc Ock....I can't stand Walker. Plus, Doc Ock sort of sounds like @Docker2.0 (although that really doesn't work in his favor because he's almost always wrong....see Wanda v TAO).

I actually like Walker. He has grown on me and comes straight off the comic pages. They have captured him perfectly.

 

[InCali]

I actually like Walker. He has grown on me and comes straight off the comic pages. They have captured him perfectly.

He’s grown on me too. Kinda like a wart.

Otto wins.

 

[Luigi]

Doc Ock

Without his pistol, US Agent is easy fodder for Doc Ock. He could easily flick him away with his tentacle arms. Even the Tobey Spidey struggled with those mechanical arms.

 

[Iceman]

Spidey is like a superhuman with many other abilities and skills, and even then Ock is a serious threat to him. I give this one to Ock.

 

[Docker2.0]

Doctor Octopus wins. Next up:

Daredevil

vs Ronin Hawkeye

Who you got peeps?