MCU vs thread....controversy and chaos

[Bayne]

What ? Have another look.



The guy whispered and it disintegrated Strange plus a chunk of the scenery.

Yes. And it took quite a long time. For an apparently normal human body and some rocks and such. Captain Marvel should be about a billion times more durable than that based on what we've seen.

 

[Docker2.0]

Captain Marvel wins. Next up:

Wanda

vs the Eternals

Who you got peeps?!

 

[Luigi]

Wanda

Considering that Wanda instantly healed herself after escaping the mirror dimension, there's nothing that the Eternals can do to her. Sure, they'll be able to get a couple of good hits in, but they won't be able to keep her down.

 

[Batmannerism]

Captain Marvel wins. Next up:

Wanda

vs the Eternals

Who you got peeps?!

Well....If the Eternals work together and fight to kill Wanda, then she's toast.

Despite her immense magic - do whatever the plot requires - power, she's essentially human.

Other than her massive plot armour, she's not invulnerable, she uses force fields to protect her from attacks. If Makaari can hit her fast and keep her off balance so she cant use her magic to protect herself while Ikaris and Kingo blast the **** out of her ( which should be enough to kill her, as Ikaris could shoot down the Eternals' ship) and then Thena steps in for a killing stroke she's dead meat.

But, if they fail to strike before she does, then they're all toast.

In Dr Strange ATMOM ****ing Captain Marvel and Captain Carter literally stood and watched while Black Bolt and Mr Fantastic got murdered - because the writers of that scene and whomever Disney put in charge of it ( not Raimi) are ****ing idiots.

But lets say Wanda doesn't have her plot armour.

All that the Eternals need is for the fast movers to hit her hard and fast first.

Sooooo I'll say Eternals 6/10 - because if they hesitate or attack her one at a time, she'll destroy them all.

 

[Batgirl0202]

I'm gonna go with Eternals as well.

Wanda becoming too powerful and basically being able to do anything the plot requires doesn't sit well with me. Where are the stakes?

Also, because of their genetic modification, would Wanda's magic be as effective against Eternals as it would against more organic opponents? I guess it depends on the requirements of the script...

Eternals 7/10

 

[InCali]

Black Bolt vs Captain Marvel:

If this were the comics version, it'd be an easy win for Black Bolt. Movie versions? "Insufficient Data". It *really* hinges on how durable Black Bolt is. I suppose based on minimum plausible interpretation, Captain Marvel should win, since we know she's durable enough to take a hit while dishing out.

Might depend on which comic version of CM, but I still think she wins.

 

[InCali]

Eternals because I hate the fact that they ridiculously overpowered Wanda for the sake of creating "tension".

 

[Batmannerism]

Eternals because I hate the fact that they ridiculously overpowered Wanda for the sake of creating "tension".

Yeahhhh boyyyyyy !

 

[Batmannerism]

I'm gonna go with Eternals as well.

Wanda becoming too powerful and basically being able to do anything the plot requires doesn't sit well with me. Where are the stakes?

Also, because of their genetic modification, would Wanda's magic be as effective against Eternals as it would against more organic opponents? I guess it depends on the requirements of the script...

Eternals 7/10

I don't think the Eternals have any genes to modify, they're androids. They're not alive, which is why they don't age - that make them less vulnerable to magic but Wanda's magic in MOM is uber powerful.


Thing is, there's no reason her magic makes her any more durable than a normal human. Ikaris, Makaari, Kingo , Thena, Gilgamesh or even Phastos should be able to kill her with a single strike.



If Reed Richards hadn't literally told her how to render Black Bolt ineffective - world's smartest man, my ass !

 

[Luigi]

I don't think the Eternals have any genes to modify, they're androids. They're not alive, which is why they don't age - that make them less vulnerable to magic but Wanda's magic in MOM is uber powerful.


Thing is, there's no reason her magic makes her any more durable than a normal human. Ikaris, Makaari, Kingo , Thena, Gilgamesh or even Phastos should be able to kill her with a single strike.



If Reed Richards hadn't literally told her how to render Black Bolt ineffective - world's smartest man, my ass !

 

[Docker2.0]

Eternals wins. Next up:

Ms. Marvel

vs Taskmaster

Who you got peeps?!

 

[Batmannerism]

Eternals wins. Next up:

Ms. Marvel

vs Taskmaster

Who you got peeps?!

You know who loses....anyone who enjoyed MCU films that were made for adults.

 

[Luigi]

The ruthless killing machine versus a superpowered rookie...yeah I'm going with Taskmaster.

 

[Docker2.0]

You know who loses....anyone who enjoyed MCU films that were made for adults.

Couldn't agree more. Marvel is making a huge mistake with their movies and tv shows now. I don't think any movie they made since phase 4 made over a billion dollars and no Spidey doesn't count, that's Sony's thing. And there shows have been horrible. Seems they are getting worse and worse .

 

[Bayne]

Some day you guys are going have to get over yourselves and stop whining like babies every single time a person mentions anything related to phase iv (especially when you're the ones who keep bringing it up half the time). Do you have any idea how incredibly boring you're making this thread?



Barring any surprises in the last episode of Ms. Marvel, I'm gonna say Kamala isn't experienced enough yet to win against Taskmaster.

 

[metaphysician]

Evil!Wanda vs Eternals:

Yeah, I think I lean to Eternals. Wanda is powerful, all the moreso with the Darkhold buff, but she's still a glass cannon and not invincible ( several times in the movie she was stymied, stunned, or otherwise put off-balance ). The Eternals are powerful in their own right, and most importantly come in huge numbers. As long as they all go on the offensive from word one, they should be able to take her down, though I would bet that at least a couple Eternals end up dying first.

As an aside, complaining about Wanda being "suddenly overpowered" strikes me as weird. She has been an extremely powerful glass cannon since Age of Ultron. MoM gave her some Darkhold buffs, but they were matters of degree over her prior status quo and mostly in terms of more exotic things she could do with her existing "make vibranium disintegrate" level powers.

Ms Marvel vs Taskmaster:

I haven't actually watched Ms Marvel yet ( though I mean to ), but yeah. Unless she has superhuman durability as part of her powerset, "inexperienced newbie hero vs master assassin" is a bad match up. Sure Kamala might have more raw firepower, but that doesn't matter if Taskmaster dodges her still-clumsy attacks and then shoots/stabs her.

 

[Batmannerism]

Some day you guys are going have to get over yourselves and stop whining like babies every single time a person mentions anything related to phase iv (especially when you're the ones who keep bringing it up half the time). Do you have any idea how incredibly boring you're making this thread?

r.

If you're bored by the OP and other people expressing opinions, maybe you should start
your own thread.
Also, it's ironic that you're essentially whining about people whining.

Evil!Wanda vs Eternals:

Yeah, I think I lean to Eternals. Wanda is powerful, all the moreso with the Darkhold buff, but she's still a glass cannon and not invincible ( several times in the movie she was stymied, stunned, or otherwise put off-balance ). The Eternals are powerful in their own right, and most importantly come in huge numbers. As long as they all go on the offensive from word one, they should be able to take her down, though I would bet that at least a couple Eternals end up dying first.

As an aside, complaining about Wanda being "suddenly overpowered" strikes me as weird. She has been an extremely powerful glass cannon since Age of Ultron. MoM gave her some Darkhold buffs, but they were matters of degree over her prior status quo and mostly in terms of more exotic things she could do with her existing "make vibranium disintegrate" level powers.

Ms Marvel vs Taskmaster:

I haven't actually watched Ms Marvel yet ( though I mean to ), but yeah. Unless she has superhuman durability as part of her powerset, "inexperienced newbie hero vs master assassin" is a bad match up. Sure Kamala might have more raw firepower, but that doesn't matter if Taskmaster dodges her still-clumsy attacks and then shoots/stabs her.

I agree with all of that except the suddenly overpowered Wanda statement - which I'd like to reframe for you.

You're right that Age of Ultron does establish her as massive glass cannon, and she has always beem super effective against NPC goons ( Ultron bots, Thanos goons and ultimately Kamar Taj Sorcerors)
But I ask you to consider the trajectory of the magnitude of her feats since Age of Ultron.

I also invite you ( and Im not being condescending here, because you do actually think about your posts) to consider that in the same movie Wanda struggles with 2 opponents who get beat up by Cap, Falcon and the Widow - yet later holds off Thanos while destroying an infinity stone. Wanda should have been able to crush Proxima and Corvus with a single strike. Similarly, given how effective she was against the Ultron bots, she should have been able to tackle Crossbones' crew in Nigeria by herself as she could have effortlessly flattened all of them, based on prior feats ( oh wait, she was sad before....

What I'm saying is that Wanda's powers have become a plot device. She's gone from having reasonably well defined telekinetic and telepathic powers to warping reality itself ( more comic book accurate I realise ) and enslaving towns ( before the book, I might add). That's more than just a buff IMHO.

In MOM she does things that bear little relation in scale to the Wanda we saw in Infinity War or even Endgame ( where she almost kills Thanos - interesting that in MOM the Illuminati kill Thanos pretty easily, and Wanda does the same to them)

My point is that Wanda's abilities have grown to the point where they've become a cover for lazy writing and plot convenience - she can do pretty much whatever the script requires for the plot to happen, just because.

I would agree that this isn't exactly "sudden" but MOM takes it to previously unseen degrees, and IMO that's not a good thing - even for a villain.

 

[Docker2.0]

If you're bored by the OP and other people expressing opinions, maybe you should start
your own thread.
Also, it's ironic that you're essentially whining about people whining.



I agree with all of that except the suddenly overpowered Wanda statement - which I'd like to reframe for you.

You're right that Age of Ultron does establish her as massive glass cannon, and she has always beem super effective against NPC goons ( Ultron bots, Thanos goons and ultimately Kamar Taj Sorcerors)
But I ask you to consider the trajectory of the magnitude of her feats since Age of Ultron.

I also invite you ( and Im not being condescending here, because you do actually think about your posts) to consider that in the same movie Wanda struggles with 2 opponents who get beat up by Cap, Falcon and the Widow - yet later holds off Thanos while destroying an infinity stone. Wanda should have been able to crush Proxima and Corvus with a single strike. Similarly, given how effective she was against the Ultron bots, she should have been able to tackle Crossbones' crew in Nigeria by herself as she could have effortlessly flattened all of them, based on prior feats ( oh wait, she was sad before....

What I'm saying is that Wanda's powers have become a plot device. She's gone from having reasonably well defined telekinetic and telepathic powers to warping reality itself ( more comic book accurate I realise ) and enslaving towns ( before the book, I might add). That's more than just a buff IMHO.

In MOM she does things that bear little relation in scale to the Wanda we saw in Infinity War or even Endgame ( where she almost kills Thanos - interesting that in MOM the Illuminati kill Thanos pretty easily, and Wanda does the same to them)

My point is that Wanda's abilities have grown to the point where they've become a cover for lazy writing and plot convenience - she can do pretty much whatever the script requires for the plot to happen, just because.

I would agree that this isn't exactly "sudden" but MOM takes it to previously unseen degrees, and IMO that's not a good thing - even for a villain.

Thank you! It seems like the only opinion some people want you to have of Marvel is positive. Sorry but being a fan allows opinions on both sides of the spectrum. I'm a huge Marvel fan but even I don't like what I'm seeing in this phase in movies and tv shows. Has nothing to do with hate but as a fan I'm very concerned.

 

[Bayne]

If you don't get how boring it is to see you guys just constantly repeat the same **** over and over and over again when it often isn't even relevant to the conversation then I don't know what to tell you. There's a big difference between having an opinion and forcing it down everyone's throat literally all the time.

 

[Batmannerism]

If you don't get how boring it is to see you guys just constantly repeat the same **** over and over and over again when it often isn't even relevant to the conversation then I don't know what to tell you. There's a big difference between having an opinion and forcing it down everyone's throat literally all the time.

Nobody's forcing you to read our comments.

If you enjoy current MCU content, good for you.

Also, and this is me trying not to be condescending, you might want to look up the word "literally" because you've just given a perfect example of how not to use it.

Like this:

 

[Docker2.0]

If you don't get how boring it is to see you guys just constantly repeat the same **** over and over and over again when it often isn't even relevant to the conversation then I don't know what to tell you. There's a big difference between having an opinion and forcing it down everyone's throat literally all the time.

It's a forum for people to voice their opinions!! If you only want positive opinions and NOTHING negative I suggest you don't visit any forums at all TBH. No one is going out of their way to bash the MCU but there are troubling signs that a lot of people are saying on numerous sites. I can almost PREDICT exactly what will happen in the Echo series and I don't even think it has started to shoot yet. Hint, it happened in Loki and it happened in Obi Wan so I don't have a good feeling about seeing Daredevil and Kingpin in the series but that's just me.

 

[Batmannerism]

Thank you! It seems like the only opinion some people want you to have of Marvel is positive. Sorry but being a fan allows opinions on both sides of the spectrum. I'm a huge Marvel fan but even I don't like what I'm seeing in this phase in movies and tv shows. Has nothing to do with hate but as a fan I'm very concerned.

I think we both, we all want MCU content to be good.

If Ms Marvel was a tightly written, clever and well acted show I'd watch it. Child actors can be incredibly compelling, e.g. Stranger Things, season 1 , Millie Bobby Brown.

Actually, unlike many I don't have a problem with Ms Marvel, because it's obviously aimed at a certain teen girl demographic. I'm not a 12 year olf Muslim girl, so I'm not the target audience -

However, not that long ago, during phase 1-3, Marvel aimed its content at everyone, it appealed to a wide audience because it was well written, had well developed characters and best of all had an over arching storyline that connected the films.

Sure, some films felt like filler, but generally the quality of even mediocre phase 1-3 films was good ( Iron Man 2 and 3 being the worst for me, and I actually like Thor the Dark World).

I have always liked the Eternals as a group, and I would have loved that film to be good. I heard a comment from the YT channel Midnight's Edge, that Thor Ragnarok had the Jack Kirby visuals thay Eternals should have had - and I have to agree.
The film was made without any understanding of what made the comic work - now sometimes radical departures from source material works ( e.g. Umbrella Academy Season 1 is better than the first comic volume, season 2 not so much, season 3 is a mixed bag) but in the Eternals case, it didn't.

Anyway, back to Ms Marvel. The show is aimed at teenage girls, and written that way. Its goofy and contrived and surprisingly dull.

However, there was a time when Marvel could have written a show about a teenage Muslim girl that had mass appeal - it was aimed to enage anyone - because it was about human struggles we can all relate to.

In some ways Captain America should be the least relatable character: he's physically perfect, patriotic, unshakably virtuous and super competent.

However, because he's written well and the stories around him are written well, he appeals to even people like me - who have none of the above attributes. It doesnt matter who the central protagonist is - ethnically/culturally, physically - if
the stories around them are good and their struggles are human struggles - ones we can all relate to.

I think what you and I agree on is that Marvel seems to have forgotten that.

Now, if I was in charge of the Echo I would have Daredevil act as a mentor - but that means he would have to put her in her place, and given current MCU approach that's not likely to happen. Also, Hawkeye treated Kingpin ( who was a complex and really menacing antagonist) like a joke, and I am afraid to think how that might continue in an Echo series.

 

[Docker2.0]

I think we both, we all want MCU content to be good.

If Ms Marvel was a tightly written, clever and well acted show I'd watch it. Child actors can be incredibly compelling, e.g. Stranger Things, season 1 , Millie Bobby Brown.

Actually, unlike many I don't have a problem with Ms Marvel, because it's obviously aimed at a certain teen girl demographic. I'm not a 12 year olf Muslim girl, so I'm not the target audience -

However, not that long ago, during phase 1-3, Marvel aimed its content at everyone, it appealed to a wide audience because it was well written, had well developed characters and best of all had an over arching storyline that connected the films.

Sure, some films felt like filler, but generally the quality of even mediocre phase 1-3 films was good ( Iron Man 2 and 3 being the worst for me, and I actually like Thor the Dark World).

I have always liked the Eternals as a group, and I would have loved that film to be good. I heard a comment from the YT channel Midnight's Edge, that Thor Ragnarok had the Jack Kirby visuals thay Eternals should have had - and I have to agree.
The film was made without any understanding of what made the comic work - now sometimes radical departures from source material works ( e.g. Umbrella Academy Season 1 is better than the first comic volume, season 2 not so much, season 3 is a mixed bag) but in the Eternals case, it didn't.

Anyway, back to Ms Marvel. The show is aimed at teenage girls, and written that way. Its goofy and contrived and surprisingly dull.

However, there was a time when Marvel could have written a show about a teenage Muslim girl that had mass appeal - it was aimed to enage anyone - because it was about human struggles we can all relate to.

In some ways Captain America should be the least relatable character: he's physically perfect, patriotic, unshakably virtuous and super competent.

However, because he's written well and the stories around him are written well, he appeals to even people like me - who have none of the above attributes. It doesnt matter who the central protagonist is - ethnically/culturally, physically - if
the stories around them are good and their struggles are human struggles - ones we can all relate to.

I think what you and I agree on is that Marvel seems to have forgotten that.

Now, if I was in charge of the Echo I would have Daredevil act as a mentor - but that means he would have to put her in her place, and given current MCU approach that's not likely to happen. Also, Hawkeye treated Kingpin ( who was a complex and really menacing antagonist) like a joke, and I am afraid to think how that might continue in an Echo series.

You already know how Daredevil and Kingpin will be treated in the show. They only included them in the show because no one was calling for an Echo show. No one and I like Echo the character but no way would it get numbers if there was no mention of Daredevil or Kingpin. I hate it when Marvel does the bait and switch thing because they know fans want to see certain characters but want to push characters that no one wants to see YET. Build them up so we want to see them. I never would have watched Loki had I known he would be sidelined in his own show. Same with Hawkeye. And I have no plans to see She Hulk because it looks silly AF. I do not have a good feeling about Echo and Blade coming out at all.

 

[Batmannerism]

You already know how Daredevil and Kingpin will be treated in the show. They only included them in the show because no one was calling for an Echo show. No one and I like Echo the character but no way would it get numbers if there was no mention of Daredevil or Kingpin. I hate it when Marvel does the bait and switch thing because they know fans want to see certain characters but want to push characters that no one wants to see YET. Build them up so we want to see them. I never would have watched Loki had I known he would be sidelined in his own show. Same with Hawkeye. And I have no plans to see She Hulk because it looks silly AF. I do not have a good feeling about Echo and Blade coming out at all.

Yeah, never cared a lot for She Hulk, except when she was part of the FF.

Loki was utterly rage inducing- and I won't talk about it much, for the sake of my mental health. Essentially "Hey, here's a cool, clever, charming character, wanna see him as the most pathetic version of himself?" If you had never seen an MCU
it would have been fine. But if you were even casually paying attention you might be irritated that the writers casually dismissed the entire previous MCU with little things, like no free will and Loki getting cold and conjuring a blanket.....HE'S A ****ING FROST GIANT, HE DOESN'T FEEL COLD !
Okay, that's enough.

Yeah, it's as though Disney has not only opted for a totally new roster of characters, but also gone for a writing pool that a) doesn't have any regard for prior film canon and b) doesn't have the skill, or take the time to make even their own stories internally consistent.

Let's hope this is a trend that doesn't continue for too much longer.

And I'll say Taskmaster kills Ms Marvel in about 5 seconds.

 

[Bayne]

It's a forum for people to voice their opinions!! If you only want positive opinions and NOTHING negative I suggest you don't visit any forums at all TBH. No one is going out of their way to bash the MCU but there are troubling signs that a lot of people are saying on numerous sites. I can almost PREDICT exactly what will happen in the Echo series and I don't even think it has started to shoot yet. Hint, it happened in Loki and it happened in Obi Wan so I don't have a good feeling about seeing Daredevil and Kingpin in the series but that's just me.

It's a thread that isn't about phase iv or the current or future state of the MCU at all. Constant rants that never have anything new to say and aren't even relevant to the thread are not 'normal' forum posting.