MCU X-Men - Part 3

[KRYPTON INC.]

gotta give credit to Fox and Singer how they handled diversity. it wasnt in your face it was subtle albeit sometimes metaphorical.

Uh... As stated the X-Men mythology is one giant metaphor. Bobby and his parents scene? People didn't have to read into it as a metaphor for a homosexual coming out to their family. It's inherent to the franchise. It's all a metaphor for groups considered the "other" by the majority.

 

[fan4stic]

Uh... huh...

Because this is something that ONLY happens today. It's not been the case with art for the entirety of human existence? Are... Are you honestly proffering this opinion in the face of the history of the civilized world going back thousands of years? Poems, plays, songs and yes in the modern context, television programming and films have ALWAYS had political content in some form. Not all poems, plays, songs or movies and TV shows, obviously, but acting as though this is something that's out of bounds for art is frankly silly in the extreme.

I said that I think it shouldn't be for politics. I didn't say it wasn't.

Then you don't understand art.

Because I don't think it should be used to make people think about politics?

 

[Jordacar]

Because I don't think it should be used to make people think about politics?

Art is political.

 

[Marvel united]

Uh... As stated the X-Men mythology is one giant metaphor. Bobby and his parents scene? People didn't have to read into it as a metaphor for a homosexual coming out to their family. It's inherent to the franchise. It's all a metaphor for groups considered the "other" by the majority.

And if Bobby was gay, he would have to deal with being a double minority in society. That's a lot of material for the actors, writers and director to chew on. His arc could be about coming to terms with who he is and learning how to be more mature; a coming of age story for him. I could easily see Bobby as the heart of the movie

 

[rebellion]

Okay then, so how about a lineup like this:

- Cyclops
- Marvel Girl
- Storm
- Forge
- Jubilee
- Northstar

Meh. Not iconic enough. There are plenty better characters to use. Dont want them to twist the roster around forced idea of diversity. There will be enough time to get there naturally with characters like forge, jubilee, bishop, moonstar, psylocke, sunfire and countless others.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I said that I think it shouldn't be for politics. I didn't say it wasn't.Because I don't think it should be used to make people think about politics?

Your response doesn't even make any sense. You did say it shouldn't be for politics. And I pointed out that art has ALWAYS commented about or had a politics as it's subject in some form or another since art is part of human civilized society and politics is inherent in a society.

I mean, carving out a non-political safe space in CBMs seems, not only short sighted but, in the modern era of super hero films is fixing the barn door after the horses have already left. You don't have to agree with the commentary or POV but politics of one kind or another are already entangled in some of the biggest super hero films of the last 15 years at least, from TDK, to TWS and CW. Your position has no basis in reality is my point.

 

[rebellion]

Also, despite what feige is saying, i dont think anyone should suddenly expect a fully fleshed out lgbt character in mcu. It will continue to be a wink wink kind of thing imo. Gotta get that china money.

 

[Marvel united]

Meh. Not iconic enough. There are plenty better characters to use. Dont want them to twist the roster around forced idea of diversity. There will be enough time to get there naturally with characters like forge, jubilee, bishop, moonstar, psylocke, sunfire and countless others.

How is that Diversity "forced"? It's only a more diverse cast of characters for a group that is based on real life minorities. The concept of "forced" diversity in X-Men of all properties is a tone deaf sentiment. But nah, let's wait a movie or 2 before we start having more than one poc on the team. Right, the Claremont lineup from the 90s was diverse for it's time. This lineup would be diverse by 2020 standards.

Or are you good with race swaps? Because Beast can get swapped

 

[fan4stic]

Your response doesn't even make any sense. You did say it shouldn't be for politics. And I pointed out that art has ALWAYS commented about or had a politics as it's subject in some form or another since art is part of human civilized society and politics is inherent in a society.

I said that I disagree that it should be making people think about politics, not that politics aren't in it.

I mean, carving out a non-political safe space in CBMs seems, not only short sighted but, in the modern era of super hero films is fixing the barn door after the horses have already left. You don't have to agree with the commentary or POV but politics of one kind or another are already entangled in some of the biggest super hero films of the last 15 years at least, from TDK, to TWS and CW. Your position has no basis in reality is my point.

Politics being in movies isn't what I'm talking about. But them being used for politics. I'm not saying they aren't, but that I don't think they should be. I see TDK as telling a story and having characters, not being about politics, though political ideas are involved.

Art is political.

I don't agree.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I said that I disagree that it should be making people think about politics, not that politics aren't in it.Politics being in movies isn't what I'm talking about. But them being used for politics. I'm not saying they aren't, but that I don't think they should be. I see TDK as telling a story and having characters, not being about politics, though political ideas are involved.I don't agree.

You are not making sense and are at odds with the reality of art as it's been practiced for the entirety of human civilization. You're point is nonsensical but I have a feeling more likely you are being willfully obtuse.

 

[fan4stic]

You are not making sense and are at odds with the reality of art as it's been practiced for the entirety of human civilization. You're point is nonsensical but I have a feeling more likely you are being willfully obtuse.

I'm not. I don't know why you don't understand what I'm saying. That I think politics can be in art, and not be what art's about. That I disagree that art should be used to make people think about politics.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I'm not. I don't know why you don't understand what I'm saying. That I think politics can be in art, and not be what art's about. That I disagree that art should be used to make people think about politics.

But by it's presence in art it will make people think about politics. Even at best I think you are confusing agitprop or propaganda for the mere presence of political views or political commentary in a film. And as already stated, it's presence in a work will by it's nature make people think about it one way or the other.

 

[rebellion]

How is that Diversity "forced"? It's only a more diverse cast of characters for a group that is based on real life minorities. The concept of "forced" diversity in X-Men of all properties is a tone deaf sentiment. But nah, let's wait a movie or 2 before we start having more than one poc on the team. Right, the Claremont lineup from the 90s was diverse for it's time. This lineup would be diverse by 2020 standards.

Or are you good with race swaps? Because Beast can get swapped

Ofc its forced when you want to tailor roster around the idea. I dont think its best for the film. Have storm be the most prominent member. Have psylocke in the film and just cast an asian actress, ignore the convoluted backstory. Its not that hard. Set up some other characters and have them in a post credits scene. Race swapping main characters is something i dont like, because it clashes with the image in my minds eye. But if they do it, i will get over it eventually. I have no desire to moan about it 24/7

 

[Darkprime]

But by it's presence in art it will make people think about politics. Even at best I think you are confusing agitprop or propaganda for the mere presence of political views or political commentary in a film. And as already stated, it's presence in a work will by it's nature make people think about it one way or the other.

For a lot of us these superhero movies are an escape from our real lives and we would rather not have to think about politics. .

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

For a lot of us these superhero movies are an escape from our real lives and we would rather not have to think about politics. .

Well then you picked the wrong franchise to be a fan of. That's like saying "I don't want elements of the hero's journey or spirituality in my STAR WARS movies."

Too late.

 

[Donner]

Darkprime and fan4stic, what do you consider politics? Art has always been an expression of life and life always has its conflicts. Conflicts are inherently political.

To start complaining now about the X-Men becoming too political is to literally ignore why the concept of mutants was created in the first place.

Also, Mystique and Destiny were lovers and no one seemed to have an issue with that before. Bobby is gay. Deal with it.

 

[Silvermoth]

So he’s still good-looking then?



Right? His half Asian/Flip side makes him all the more beautiful.

Dude is your typical pretty boy. Last thing we need is a Logan women would swoon over. Again.

So good looking! When he posted that pic of him sunburned I had to take a week off to recover.

A hot wolverine is ok if he’s a greaser. He doesn’t have to be a hunk to be hot. I just want biker wolverine like how he was in Grant Morrison’s new xmen

Bring on gay Iceman Could be a very powerful arc

And the X-Men franchise has been making political statements since the 60s during the Civil Rights marches. Doing it because of diversity is perfectly in line with the message of the series

I would love it.

If there is a place in the Marvel Universe to celebrate diversity, it certainly is the X-Men franchise. And if we've seen diversity even in the Spider-Man cast, we'll surely see in the X-Men. A lot.

Three very good points! Thank you! I’m excited for the xmen to represent the world outside the window.

I mean when you think about it, the marvel u goes to different locations but they don’t exactly have a global feel. There’s a wonderful opportunity there show a more global team.

Does anyone know any cool Russian actors they could get for Collussus?

 

[Abudefduf]

Not saying this is fan4stic's or Darkprime's case but, usually, when people say they believe art should be apolitical, what they actually mean is that it shouldn't contain politics with which they personally disagree.

 

[psylockolussus]

Okay then, so how about a lineup like this:

- Cyclops
- Marvel Girl
- Storm
- Forge
- Jubilee
- Northstar

They could easily include Bishop and Psylocke instead of Northstar. While Iceman can be the lgbt representative.

 

[rebellion]

Mcu isnt gonna suddenly become political just because it has x men back. They like and want everyones money. Yes, x men are about acceptance and tolerance, but i dont think we are gonna have any serious real world issues mirrored in these films. It will be fun with a bit of drama. Disney wont change its mo.

 

[psylockolussus]

The X-Men looking like the X-Men should be one of their priorities.

 

[Marvel united]

For a lot of us these superhero movies are an escape from our real lives and we would rather not have to think about politics. .

Well then, X-Men isn't the comic made for what you're wanting out of comic book heroes. Because it has always been one of the most political Marvel comic book franchises with political undertones, arguably more so than Black Panther in the 60s.

Complaining about political overtones or "Social Justice' topics in an X-MEN film is like complaining about Peter Parker going through money problems and girl problems in a SPIDER-MAN film.

The irony here is not lost on anyone

 

[Marvel united]

Mcu isnt gonna suddenly become political just because it has x men back. They like and want everyones money. Yes, x men are about acceptance and tolerance, but i dont think we are gonna have any serious real world issues mirrored in these films. It will be fun with a bit of drama. Disney wont change its mo.

Black Panther grossed 1.3 billion worldwide and it not only had an All-black cast but it was also Marvel's most political film yet with serious real world issues mirrored? Huh, that's something to think about.

The assertion you and Darkprime make about nobody going to see an MCU X-Men movie because it has a potlical message is beyond ridiculous coming off of Black Panther being one of the highest grossing films of all time.. Maybe YOU don't want to see the movie delve into real issues but you can't speak for everyone else.

They could easily include Bishop and Psylocke instead of Northstar. While Iceman can be the lgbt representative.

I thought about including those two but Bishop should be saved for a sequel imo as should Psylocke. Both have pretty complex origin stories

 

[rebellion]

True, black panther was super successful. Cuz there was nothing there to upset anyone who isnt hardcore racist.
But the minute you thow in an openly gay character/romance, moms of america will scream, china wont give you a release date and that is the harsh truth. Lgbt community isnt as big as black community and wont make up for all the narrow minded people who refuse to see it.

 

[Schlosser85]

Do some of you even realize X-Men since its inception has always been about diversity and has always had socio-political overtones?


It's also already often been a not-so-subtle allegory for gay rights and other minority issues (it had an AIDS allegory in the comics that was about as subtle as that Bobby "coming out" scene in X2, which is to say, not subtle at all).


Suggesting X-Men of all franchises is not the place to push diversity is pretty hilarious.