Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

[TheVileOne]

Star-Lord gets body shamed multiple times in Infinity War, and no one uttered a peep.

 

[Mad Ones]

Star-Lord gets body shamed multiple times in Infinity War, and no one uttered a peep.

What's your point?

 

[TheVileOne]

What's your point?

People don't care about body shaming when it's guys.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I remember complaints about the star lord jokes in IW. But reality is we dont all look like superheroes. And it's not easy to get that kind of physique. So I hope fat thor stays.

 

[Lip]

I'm not sure Marvel going out of their way to promote unhealthy lifestyles in the X-Men franchise is a good idea. Being obese is dangerous and it's not something that should be celebrated

Well, first of all, obesity is a complex and multifactorial medical condition. Second of all, there are people of all sizes in the world and portraying positively a fat person does not in any way means "celebrating" unhealthy life style. They can be portrayed as villains but not as heroes? Why?

And it's fine to portray gore violence in Deadpool, Daredevil and Punisher, but portraying a fat person as a good person is somehow "not a good idea"?

 

[Marvel united]

Yeah Thor's obesity wasn't some strategy to showcase more diverse body types. It was done as a part of Thor's character arc. Thor felt like a failure so he spent the last five years in a depression eating away his sadness.

Granted, I don't know how you can explain an Asgardian who has supernatural powers is able to become overweight, but whatever.

Yea, it wasn't some great thing that Thor was now obese. In fact, it was to physically illustrate how far he had fallen as you said.

Definitely a contextual and cultural problem, but it feels so egregious when its an X-character vilified for their body type given all the ways mutations and differences are allegedly celebrated by the X-men.



This kind of body shaming is not in line with the ethos of the X-men (however uneven and inconsistent it is). Don't act like the standard steroided comic book body has any kind of authority over "healthiness"

I mean, not all heroes have to be pumped up muscle beefcakes but there is no denying that that is seen as the epitome of physical perfection because, well, it is. Somebody who is fit has a healthy diet and exercise routine.

I'm not saying anybody should be shamed for their own life choices but unhealthy ones should not be glorified in MCU films because it is not a good thing.

 

[Marvel united]

Well, first of all, obesity is a complex and multifactorial medical condition. Second of all, there are people of all sizes in the world and portraying positively a fat person does not in any way means "celebrating" unhealthy life style. They can be portrayed as villains but not as heroes? Why?

And it's fine to portray gore violence in Deadpool, Daredevil and Punisher, but portraying a fat person as a good person is somehow "not a good idea"?

I know very well that obesity is classified as a medical condition and I also understand that not everybody *chooses to be that way (some people can't help it) but I also acknowledge that many of the time, obesity is the result of poor life choices and it's a problem that people can create themselves. This isn't like being a minority or being paraplegic or having any other handicap in society.

Goldballs is the only mutant that comes to mind but I'm definitely not in favor of changing characters to be obese like you suggested for Kitty. People need to know that it is NOT okay to continue down the self-destructive path if they *can help it.

 

[Lip]

but unhealthy ones should not be glorified in MCU films because it is not a good thing.

Disney/Marvel is already promoting unhealthy lifestyle with their Coca-Cola and McDonald's product placement.

Portraying a fat person as a good human being is not a bad thing or idea.

 

[TheVileOne]

There was a subplot once where Ted Kord/Blue Beetle got fat but I think it was because he got lazy.

 

[Lip]

This isn't like being a minority or being paraplegic or having any other handicap in society.

Fat people are oppressed, underrepresented group facing a lot of prejudice and discrimination. If that's not in line with what the X-Men means and fight against... Then I don't know.

 

[TheVileOne]

Look at how people are body shaming Jason Momoa right now since he's not in Aquaman shape.

 

[Mad Ones]

It's clear that there are a lot of myths and misperceptions about different bodies which is exactly what the X-men fight against.

 

[Marvel united]

Disney/Marvel is already promoting unhealthy lifestyle with their Coca-Cola and McDonald's product placement.

Portraying a fat person as a good human being is not a bad thing or idea.

Nobody said anything about that. There can be overweight characters in the MCU who are not Blob monsters and are positive characters. Ned Leeds for example.

But to go out of your way to change characters for the specific reason of "fat representation" is going to far for me.

Fat people are oppressed, underrepresented group facing a lot of prejudice and discrimination. If that's not in line with what the X-Men means and fight against... Then I don't know.

You say that as if being fat is absolutely the same as being black or being gay or being a woman. The former groups are systemically oppressed and discriminated against because of something/a quality they were born with. They were *born that way. The vast majority of fat/obese people are the way they are because of poor life choices. Their unhealthy habits should not be congratulated by Marvel Studios. That is not something that should be promoted to people as being perfectly normal because it's not and it leads to a host of other medical issues.

It's clear that there are a lot of myths and misperceptions about different bodies which is exactly what the X-men fight against.

There are people in my family struggling with their weight and their health as a result.

 

[psylockolussus]

People don't care about body shaming when it's guys.

Or in superhero movies in general.

I've been body shamed for both gaining fat and looking "too" skinny. But representing diverse body shapes is the last thing I think of, when it comes to the X-Men. And its pretty obvious that the X-Men are fit because they train and have to be battle ready.

This would be another example of forced representation, forced diversity, like seriously do we really need to celebrate all body shapes in a X-Men movie. Marvel Studios doesn't need to check all the boxes in the opressed/underpresented groups in a X-Men movie, imo.

 

[psylockolussus]

Nobody said anything about that. There can be overweight characters in the MCU who are not Blob monsters and are positive characters. Ned Leeds for example.

But to go out of your way to change characters for the specific reason of "fat representation" is going to far for me.
l.

I couldn't believe when i read that suggestion. So basically changing a certain look for the sake of fat representation just feels forced.

 

[Lip]

But to go out of your way to change characters for the specific reason of "fat representation" is going to far for me.

A lot of people made the same point about The Little Mermaid casting. "Too far for me". Representation isn't about representing only the groups of people that you want.

You say that as if being fat is absolutely the same as being black or being gay or being a woman.

Oppression, discrimination and prejudice are wrong and period. You can't be like "we have to fight discrimination against this group, but let's forget about that one". It seems like you want them to keep facing discrimination as a form of punishment.

The vast majority of fat/obese people are the way they are because of poor life choices.

Reducing them to "poor life choices" is so wrong. Not only for individuals, but also for much bigger problems that leads to gain of weight and obesity. A lot of fat people have the exact same bad habits of many people who do not gain as much weight. A lot of fat people struggle the entire life to lose weight. There are a lot of factors that either makes people gain more weight or struggle really hard to lose it. Reducing them to "bad decision makers" not only adds to the prejudice against them but also ignore all of the factors (social, emotional, genetical) and the complexity that leads to weight gain.

I mean, Thor for instance is an example of emotional problems leading to weight gain.

Coca-cola and Mcdonald's product placement is promoting unhealthy lifestyle, which you don't seem to have a problem with. Portraying positively people who exists in real life, like Ned you said, it's not doing any harm.

Reflecting the world that I live in is the the interpretation I expect from a 2020 version of the X-Men.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Having characters who are overweight presented in a good light is perfectly fine.

And overweight people are definitely bullied and looked down upon in American society. However, being obese should absolutely NOT be compared to being a person of color or gay. That’s very insensitive to people who fall into those minority groups. It’s not easy, but overweight people can lose weight and get healthy. A black persons cant change the color of their skin.

That said, being obese is unhealthy, and we’ve gotten to the point where we’re looking at it costing our society hundreds of billions of dollars a year. It is a very real problem and we need to get people healthy. However, we also need to learn how to talk about it. That both means actually trying to help and not just shaming overweight people, which far too many publications that claim they offer help do, and not trying to normalize it either.

It’s a balancing act, because ridicule and shame almost never work, it’s been proven time and time again, and it’s not healthy either. But we do need to make major health changes as a society.

All that said, having a character that happens to be overweight isn’t promoting “far acceptance” unless that’s specifically written into the story. I wouldn’t make an existing character overweight, but use one of the ones that already are or introduce a new one. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Marvel united]

A lot of people made the same point about The Little Mermaid casting. "Too far for me". Representation isn't about representing only the groups of people that you want.

It's about representing oppressed minorities. Fat people are not "marginalized minorities" for one because like half the country is suffering from obesity. And it is a massive leech on the economy in itself

Oppression, discrimination and prejudice are wrong and period. You can't be like "we have to fight discrimination against this group, but let's forget about that one". It seems like you want them to keep facing discrimination as a form of punishment.

Of course it's wrong, you don't need to tell me that making fun of somebody for their weight is totally not okay. But it is starkly ridiculous to compare a fat person to someone facing institutionalized discrimination because of how they were born. A black man can never change the color of his skin. An obese person CAN change his weight.

The latter is a self destructive lifestyle and it should not be normalized in the media because you are sending the wrong message to people. And you are enabling people suffering from these issues to continue doing what they are doing

Reducing them to "poor life choices" is so wrong. Not only for individuals, but also for much bigger problems that leads to gain of weight and obesity.

The how and the why does not change or lessen the effects of the outcome and in turn, the results. Somebody gaining weight because of sadness and emotional turmoil like Thor does not change the fact that poor life choices* still led him down that path. I'm reducing it to "poor life choices" because that's exactly what it is, regardless of the reasons charged behind those choices.

And yes, I also understand that some people are genetically predisposed to gain weight faster than other people but there are always outliers to a wider issue. The vast majority of people suffering with severe weight problems do not have this issue.

Coca-cola and Mcdonald's product placement is promoting unhealthy lifestyle, which you don't seem to have a problem with. Portraying positively people who exists in real life, like Ned you said, it's not doing any harm.

Because those are products. People have a choice whether to indulge in those products.

Yes, I don't have a problem with it. I only have a problem with Marvel going out of their way to make/change characters into being obese. That's where I draw the line personally.

Reflecting the world that I live in is the the interpretation I expect from a 2020 version of the X-Men.

Next thing ya know, we'll be advocating for chainsmoker representation because they are also stigmatized by society for self destructive habits

 

[Marvel united]

Or in superhero movies in general.

I've been body shamed for both gaining fat and looking "too" skinny. But representing diverse body shapes is the last thing I think of, when it comes to the X-Men. And its pretty obvious that the X-Men are fit because they train and have to be battle ready.

This would be another example of forced representation, forced diversity, like seriously do we really need to celebrate all body shapes in a X-Men movie. Marvel Studios doesn't need to check all the boxes in the opressed/underpresented groups in a X-Men movie, imo.

Right, I also struggled with being overweight during my latter High-school and early College years due to some personal issues going on at the time -- and it sucked big time to feel like the butt of every joke. But If my friends and family didn't encourage me to lose the weight and I didn't push myself past my breaking point multiple times, I'd still be in the same exact position I was 10 years ago. Now, I go to the Gym 4 days a week and occasionally jog/sprint during the early mourning hours to stay relatively fit.

I'm all for helping those in need to getting help but I don't want to glorify and congratulate them because I would become an enabler. I would be contributing to the problem. But I definitely don't agree with the method of shaming people into changing - I think there is a middle ground you have to strike when approaching this issue.

 

[Lip]

It's about representing oppressed minorities. Fat people are not "marginalized minorities" for one because like half the country is suffering from obesity. And it is a massive leech on the economy in itself

And women are half of the world. What is your point here? The X-Men is about fighting discrimination and oppression against people who find themselves out of the "norm". They take a lot of inspiration from LGBT or black people, but that does not mean their message is about "let's help this group and **** this other one".

You are essencially denying plus size people from positive representation and I don't understand that at all. They do exist whether you like it or not and they ARE represented in the media, whether you like it or not. And they'll continue to be. Their existence will continue to be acknowleged. The problem is that they are constantly being represented as villainous, monstrous or disgusting. I will never understand what is your problem with representing them in a positive light. They are human beings.

What do you want? People to completely ignore their existence or keeping them constantly portrayed in a very negative light? Do you think that will be helpful? How? Punishing them by representing them negatively and constantly reminding them they do not fit the patterns of beauty of Hollywood?

People don't need that Jim Lee type of body to be healthy or be and feel pretty.

I'm reducing it to "poor life choices" because that's exactly what it is, regardless of the reasons charged behind those choices.

I'm sorry but it's extremely insensitive to reduce them to "bad decision makers". I met a 6 year old that gained a lot of weight after losing her grand father. I guess you're gonna shame her and blame her too for her "bad decisions in life", right?

Because those are products.

It's not "just products". It's promoting the lifestyle you allegedly are so against. So you do not have a problem with "unhealthy eating habits". You have a problem with seeing fat people portrayed positively onscreen.

Next thing ya know, we'll be advocating for chainsmoker representation because they are also stigmatized by society for self destructive habits

You and Infinity999 were the only ones here that attempted to turn discrimination into dick measuring. I'm pointing out that it's wrong and period. And the X-Men represents exactly the fight against that.

 

[Mad Ones]

The fact that the topic of body diversity immediately becomes about warnings about the dangers of obesity speaks to how messed up our assumptions are. There are a lot of bodies inbetween thin and fat that are getting erased. And the people at "the extremes" are human too and deserve dignity and respect. The superhero body becomes the "healthy body" because the fitness and health industry profits from people aspiring to those bodies. In reality, those bodies come from performance enhancing drugs, extreme dieting, exercise routines, mental health struggles, etc. "Health" itself is a completely arbitrary category, a sliding scale to justify whatever bodies you want to see.

No one said that being fat was exactly the same as being gay, black, etc. Being gay and black aren't the same thing either obviously. But these are all social categories and labels that determine how someone is treated in society.

 

[Lip]

The fact that the topic of body diversity immediately becomes about warnings about the dangers of obesity speaks to how messed up our assumptions are. There are a lot of bodies inbetween thin and fat that are getting erased. And the people at "the extremes" are human too and deserve dignity and respect. The superhero body becomes the "healthy body" because the fitness and health industry profits from people aspiring to those bodies. In reality, those bodies come from performance enhancing drugs, extreme dieting, exercise routines, mental health struggles, etc. "Health" itself is a completely arbitrary category, a sliding scale to justify whatever bodies you want to see.

No one said that being fat was exactly the same as being gay, black, etc. Being gay and black aren't the same thing either obviously. But these are all social categories and labels that determine how someone is treated in society.

You articulated way, way better than me. But that's it.

 

[Lip]

There are a lot of bodies inbetween thin and fat that are getting erased.

I brought this up because of the portrayal of Squirrel Girl in that animated movie:

Which is still very subtle. But like you said, even people at the "extremes" deserve respect and dignity.

 

[Dark Raven]

Rebel Wilson as Jean Grey
Jack Black as Cyclops
Melissa McCarthy as Rogue
Gabourey Sidibe as Storm
James Corden as Wolverine

 

[Marvel united]

And women are half of the world. What is your point here? The X-Men is about fighting discrimination and oppression against people who find themselves out of the "norm". They take a lot of inspiration from LGBT or black people, but that does not mean their message is about "let's help this group and **** this other one".

You are essencially denying plus size people from positive representation and I don't understand that at all. They do exist whether you like it or not and they ARE represented in the media, whether you like it or not. And they'll continue to be. Their existence will continue to be acknowleged. The problem is that they are constantly being represented as villainous, monstrous or disgusting. I will never understand what is your problem with representing them in a positive light. They are human beings.

I don't have an problem with it. You don't see me in the Spider-Man sub-forum targeting Ned Leeds for being overweight, not at all. I have a problem with your solution of making characters obese to this supposed lack of positive representation for people indulging in a life style that isn't positive.

(For the record, of course there will be exceptions to the rule, but they don't define the rule. The 6 year old child has no real control because she's only 6 years old... That's not the same as an adult with the ability to make a change in their life)

You and Infinity999 were the only ones here that attempted to turn discrimination into dick measuring. I'm pointing out that it's wrong and period. And the X-Men represents exactly the fight against that.

This is a dangerous slippery slope road to go down. We know who is oppressed, we know who can't help the way they are. The X-Men are mutants born* with a genetic marker that "others" them from the rest of society. A fat person 8 times out of 10 is "oppressed" because of their own making. Now if you can classify them as a marginalized minority because of the fact that being fat is rightfully not celebrated by society-- where does this classification end? Does a chainsmoker become a marginalized minority because they arent allowed to smoke in certain public places and because smoking Is frowned upon in society? Does an alcoholic become a marginalized minority because their self destructive tendencies are labeled negatively by society in general? What about a meth head? A junkie? etc. Where does it end? How do we define somebody is being oppressed if not for them being unjustly targeted because of something they were born with? All of the groups listed above are portrayed negatively in media