Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

[Mad Ones]

A fat person 8 times out of 10 is "oppressed" because of their own making. Now if you can classify them as a marginalized minority because of the fact that being fat is rightfully not celebrated by society-- where does this classification end? Does a chainsmoker become a marginalized minority because they arent allowed to smoke in certain public places and because smoking Is frowned upon in society? Does an alcoholic become a marginalized minority because their self destructive tendencies are labeled negatively by society in general? What about a meth head? A junkie? etc. Where does it end? How do we define somebody is being oppressed if not for them being unjustly targeted because of something they were born with? All of the groups listed above are portrayed negatively in media

The bolded is a myth. You have a lot of unlearning to do about how the world works in general it seems based on this post. The X-men could teach you a thing or two about vilifying the people you don't think deserve sympathy or can't empathize with.

 

[Marvel united]

The bolded is a myth. You have a lot of unlearning to do about how the world works in general it seems based on this post. The X-men could teach you a thing or two about vilifying the people you don't think deserve sympathy or can't empathize with.

Obesity - A Preventable Disease

https://www.google.com/amp/s/newsro...ty-top-cause-preventable-life-years-lost/amp/

You know what the difference is? I can't "prevent" myself from being a black man. They can prevent themselves from being overweight and introducing themselves to a host of other fatal health problems. You dont need to infer that I don't understand how the world works as someone who has been on it for nearly 30 years and been profiled and discriminated against for something I can't help, I'd say I have a pretty good grasp on what oppression is

Being overweight – not just obese – kills millions a year, say experts

Obesity—kills 1 in 14 people currently—do you really care?

That's a fact. Now you want to see that promoted in an X-Men film? The X-Men being responsible for enabling people to basically kill themselves?

 

[Lip]

I have a problem with your solution of making characters obese to this supposed lack of positive representation for people indulging in a life style that isn't positive.

My "solution" is exactly the same you have. You are also very open to changing key characters to add more diversity to the X-Men. You just don't want this diversity to be inclusive to plus size people.

You don't have a problem with Marvel promoting McDonalds that also have those "Happy Meals" with toys included to induce kids into unhealthy eating habits. So, for me, your problem is specific with representing plus size people.

This is a dangerous slippery slope road to go down. We know who is oppressed, we know who can't help the way they are. The X-Men are mutants born* with a genetic marker that "others" them from the rest of society. A fat person 8 times out of 10 is "oppressed" because of their own making. Now if you can classify them as a marginalized minority because of the fact that being fat is rightfully not celebrated by society-- where does this classification end? Does a chainsmoker become a marginalized minority because they arent allowed to smoke in certain public places and because smoking Is frowned upon in society? Does an alcoholic become a marginalized minority because their self destructive tendencies are labeled negatively by society in general? What about a meth head? A junkie? etc. Where does it end? How do we define somebody is being oppressed if not for them being unjustly targeted because of something they were born with? All of the groups listed above are portrayed negatively in media

You're literally comparing the treatment of plus size people with smokers (?). If you're doing it seriously, it's just very dishonest. If you're mocking, it's not a joke to me. So I won't engage in this "conversation". Like MadOnes said, you have a lot to learn about discrimination and prejudice and I'm not going to be the one to teach. I feel like you're supposed to be old enough to see the differences between the social issues regarding the treatment of both, and see "where should it end'.

 

[Mad Ones]

Obesity is preventable in more cases in societies that make the five food groups affordable, don't overwork their population, don't have giant industries around soda and fast food where those meals are the most affordable and accessible, and where people's mental health and (intergenerational) traumas are looked after rather than ignored. All of those things take away people's ability to "choose" the bodies they want (what a fantasy you have about this though).

There will still be obesity even when these conditions are met and that is ok. If you don't think it's ok, then you have some work to do.

 

[Lip]

Obesity - A Preventable Disease

https://www.google.com/amp/s/newsro...ty-top-cause-preventable-life-years-lost/amp/

You know what the difference is? I can't "prevent" myself from being a black man. They can prevent themselves from being overweight and introducing themselves to a host of other fatal health problems. You dont need to infer that I don't understand how the world works as someone who has been on it for nearly 30 years and been profiled and discriminated against for something I can't help, I'd say I have a pretty good grasp on what oppression is

Being overweight – not just obese – kills millions a year, say experts

Obesity—kills 1 in 14 people currently—do you really care?

That's a fact. Now you want to see that promoted in an X-Men film? The X-Men being responsible for enabling people to basically kill themselves?

What's even your point?

That the discrimination against plus size people is fine and ok because they weren't born like this or that they "can change"? What is your point with "they can change"? Discrimination is wrong and period. And portraying them positively isn't adding to anything unhealthy.

You brought up those datas, but what about the numbers about suicide, bullying, depression and psychological problems that affects fat people? Fighting that kind of discrimination and prejudice, and addressing it somehow in the superhero IP like the X-Men is not wrong or negative.

 

[Marvel united]

Obesity is preventable in more cases in societies that make the five food groups affordable, don't overwork their population, don't have giant industries around soda and fast food where those meals are the most affordable and accessible, and where people's mental health and (intergenerational) traumas are looked after rather than ignored. All of those things take away people's ability to "choose" the bodies they want (what a fantasy you have about this though).

There will still be obesity even when these conditions are met and that is ok. If you don't think it's ok, then you have some work to do.

The best example I can use is myself. I grew up poor and I'm by no means rich and I was what is considered overweight, a long time ago. Fast food chains, unhealthy food and usnacks is the only thing a lot of poor people have access to, myself included -- that's true. But I was able to fight through it by drastically changing my calorie intake and exercising 5 days a week. Starting with low reps and slowly building myself up to more. I know I'm not everyone and I can't apply my situation to every other person & I understand this situation is not as black and white as it looks from the surface. But the point is, obesity IS a problem. It is a medical issue that kills millions of people around the world every year. Yes, I compare it to smoking and alcoholism because it's really not all that different -- both of them can be brought on by severe mental trauma and a lack of resources and both of them lead to fatal ailments that in turn, lead to death.

Either way, I'll just have to agree to disagree with both of you on this subject. And for the record, I don't see anything wrong with someone plus-sized or otherwise, a little overweight. I have a problem with obesity and promoting that in a positive light.

 

[Lip]

Yes, I compare it to smoking and alcoholism because it's really not all that different

And therefore Logan and Gambit shouldn't be in the MCU because they're smokers?

I have a problem with obesity and promoting that in a positive light.

And no one is talking about celebrating unhealthy lifestyle or showing unhealthy lifestyle. We're talking about representing plus size people in a postive light for once. You know, like human beings, not as villainous disgusting monstrous people.

 

[Infinity9999x]

You and Infinity999 were the only ones here that attempted to turn discrimination into dick measuring. I'm pointing out that it's wrong and period. And the X-Men represents exactly the fight against that.

If you think pointing out the nuance between groups that suffer oppression amounts to dick measuring, then I think you’re having trouble viewing the matter in an unbiased light. And it seems you ignored the rest of my points, which is unfortunate.

Long story short, we as a culture absolutely need to learn to be more caring of people suffering from obesity. We need to learn how to offer them help in constructive ways that actually encourage growth and change instead of shaming and ridiculing them, because many outlets and people that claim they want to help really just want a group to attack.

That said, we have an obesity epidemic in this country that needs to be addressed, because it is already costing our society massive amounts of financial strain. It is unhealthy and we need to address it.

In a helpful way, that is kind and considerate of the people battling with it.

If you think that’s oppression, you’re simply arguing against science fact. Our culture and our nutrition need help, and our people are suffering because of it.

 

[psylockolussus]

Coca-cola and Mcdonald's product placement is promoting unhealthy lifestyle, which you don't seem to have a problem with. Portraying positively people who exists in real life, like Ned you said, it's not doing any harm.

Reflecting the world that I live in is the the interpretation I expect from a 2020 version of the X-Men.

What are you talking about Coca Cola and McDonalds product placement? I don't think I've seen one in a mcu movie. If there's one that is probably a product placement paid by a sponsor or business partner/s. Nothing in the mcu movies tells you or the audience that you/we should drink coca cola or eat McDonalds everyday. And since when movies such as escapism movies like Marvel became a guide for healthy eating anyway?

You're asking for every oppressed/underpresented group to be represented of a movie that is already feels forced. And yes the X-Men is a metaphor for opressed groups but not in a manner that is so blatanly forced, that you don't care about drastically changing the look of a character that eXist for decades. If that doesn't sound like pushing your Agenda way too much, then I don't know what it is.

 

[Lip]

What are you talking about Coca Cola and McDonalds product placement? I don't think I've seen one in a mcu movie. If there's one that is probably a product placement paid by a sponsor or business partner/s. Nothing in the mcu movies tells you or the audience that you/we should drink coca cola or eat McDonalds everyday. And since when movies such as escapism movies like Marvel became a guide for healthy eating anyway?

You're asking for every oppressed/underpresented group to be represented of a movie that is already feels forced. And yes the X-Men is a metaphor for opressed groups but not in a manner that is so blatanly forced, that you don't care about drastically changing the look of a character that eXist for decades. If that doesn't sound like pushing your Agenda way too much, then I don't know what it is.

I've seen your opinions about diversity and social issues. It would worry me if you were agreeing with me. As long as we're in different pages, I feel fine.

 

[psylockolussus]

I've seen your opinions about diversity and social issues. It would worry me if you were agreeing with me. As long as we're in different pages, I feel fine.

Yeah remind me what are those again? Are they forced and contrived as yours. Yeah at this point, you've already proven you're all about oppressed groups and you're just quoting a post from an Asian, gay guy who who have been body shamed for being too skinny and gaining weight.

Sorry not sorry, but the X-Men shouldn't be the face of forced diversity and representation - an agenda you've been asking for all this time. You don't care about the respecting what the characters look like in the comics.

 

[Lip]

You don't care about the respecting what the characters look like in the comics.

I don't. I care about the message.

 

[psylockolussus]

I don't. I care about the message.

Yeah obviously.

And you still didn't answer my question about you referring to my views regarding diversity and social issues? what are they? I'd like to read it.

 

[Infinity9999x]

And no one is talking about celebrating unhealthy lifestyle or showing unhealthy lifestyle. We're talking about representing plus size people in a postive light for once. You know, like human beings, not as villainous disgusting monstrous people.

This I agree with. Simply portraying overweight characters isn’t promoting unhealthy lifestyles. It’s just showing a different character, unless something in the script is going out of its way to say that being obese is healthy or some such. Nothing wrong with showing characters of more shapes and sizes.

 

[Marvel united]

In retrospect, I understand where Lip is coming in wanting representation for all groups who are shunned by society because truth be told, that IS what the X-Men are about in essence. And I'm right there with him in wanting a much more diverse cast and more groups represented.

I feel like most of us are on a similar page in wanting more representation, especially when that will be a major part of the MCU moving forward. That's what makes sense for a contemporary update of a franchise like X-Men

 

[psylockolussus]

Marvel could use more plus size characters. Well I don't know of you have read Inhumans, but one of the newer characters is a plus size and she's not a vilain. So this thing is not an issue well at least to me.

Making Kitty Pryde "fat", who's a petite girl/woman in the comics is going overboard just for representation. And even if they don't feature more plus size characters, so what? thats not the measure of a good X-Men film or showing the message of the X-Men. Again, they don't need to check everything in list of the oppressed groups, to send the message across @Lip as that would just feel forced and contrived and it would lead to miXed reactions and would offend the non-minorities.

There's also a way to show representation without completely disregarding what the characters originally look like in which Lip is clearly willing to throw, just to show representation and imo, thats a wrong way of doing it. You're not gonna make everyone happy with that.

 

[Iceman]

I don’t quite understand this debate. You wouldn’t generally have plus size X-Men because of how much activity they are doing per day. You don’t have any plus size marathon world record holders or 100m record holders as the training involved to get to that stage makes it difficult to remain plus size even if you started that way.

You’d have plus size regular mutants, just not the guys who are in the field all the time on life and death missions, and otherwise training in the danger room.

 

[psylockolussus]

I don’t quite understand this debate. You wouldn’t generally have plus size X-Men because of how much activity they are doing per day. You don’t have any plus size marathon world record holders or 100m record holders as the training involved to get to that stage makes it difficult to remain plus size even if you started that way.

You’d have plus size regular mutants, just not the guys who are in the field all the time on life and death missions, and otherwise training in the danger room.

Thats eXactly what I said. The X-Men do a lot of training and they're always in a battle, they would be in shape.

But uh oh the X-Men must represent every oppressed group, nevermind that the X-Men are also superheroes who are constantly training for battle.

 

[Iceman]

This I agree with. Simply portraying overweight characters isn’t promoting unhealthy lifestyles. It’s just showing a different character, unless something in the script is going out of its way to say that being obese is healthy or some such. Nothing wrong with showing characters of more shapes and sizes.

Yeah, nothing wrong with Ned Leeds being overweight. But if it was Spidey it wouldn’t really seem believable to me that he was doing all that activity and maintaining an obese physique. If he dumped his suit for a while like in SM2 and stopped, then that would be different. Like how Thor got fat when he stopped all activity and sat at home and drank.

 

[psylockolussus]

And isn't Beast a plus size or a guy with average body weight? I don't know if its the mutation but he's never been drawn as a slim guy or a muscular guy. So I don't know why people are forgetting him. Well look at Kelsey Grammer neXt to Hugh Jackman in X3/Dofp.

 

[Iceman]

I wouldn’t say Beast fits that. I’m sure he’d have a crazy BMI that would classify him as morbidly obese but so would Hulk, Colossus and Thing lol. They are all bulky due to muscle rather than fat. There’s room for overweight characters but there’s no point if it doesn’t feel authentic. That isn’t going to be inspiring anybody. Anyone who isn’t shown as super-active can have any physique so I don’t think it would be hard to do in the right circumstances. Thor’s change of shape was played off as a big joke or they could have achieved something with it.

 

[psylockolussus]

I think one person here was arguing that plus size characters are always portrayed as the bad guys (Kingpin, Blob) so this thing about representation of average/plus size characters in the Mcu X-Men started. Then @Lip jumped right into it. Nevermind the facts the X-Men are consistantly training. Plus size characters in the mcu like Ned and Happy eXist and they aren't villains and someone just mentioned Goldballs. And I also just mentioned an Inhumans character from the comics. They eXist, they aren't just token bad guys. They might not be represented that much because superheroes are generally have to be battle ready and for the X-Men, constantly training. These aren't stories just featuring ordinary people by the way and everyone are fit and slim.

Oh wait, Lip started the conversation and then madones jumped right through the suggestion.

 

[Dark Raven]

As long as we don't get fat Namor. That wouldn't make any sense as a swimmer.

 

[Lip]

I don’t quite understand this debate.

And I don't understand why they're always worth to be villains, but not to be heroes.

 

[Kuwolski]

As long as we don't get fat Namor. That wouldn't make any sense as a swimmer.

He'd have inflatable man boobs for when he get's tired