Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

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Mystique was naked all the time, mute, just following her man's orders. Asian girls never talked (Jubilee, Lady Deathstryke, Psylocke, Blink). Rogue needed protection all the time. With the exception of Jean, I think he neglected all the female characters he had. And still, there were more that could've been done with Jean, once she was mostly Logan's love interest.

So no, I don't feel satisfied with what he did with female characters. Especially considering how huge they are in the comics.
Mystique wasn't mute in X2 and was on her own for a chunk of the movie. Storm had a character arc in it. Jean did too and wasn't just Logan's love interest, in spite of that story's prominence. Rogue didn't need to be protected all the time in X2. Deathstryke only had almost no lines, yes, but talking wasn't really necessary for the role. I think there was room for improvement in them, but I think it was also decently done.
 
I hope the movies downplay the Scott vs Logan rivalry. The movies hugely exaggerated that dynamic to begin with.
I agree. At most, I'd like to see them have a Gimli/Legolas type friendly rivalry where they enjoy snarking at each other but are also clearly friends.
 
I agree. At most, I'd like to see them have a Gimli/Legolas type friendly rivalry where they enjoy snarking at each other but are also clearly friends.
That's the level I want yes, even if it starts less close (as Gimli Legolas did).
 
Mystique was naked all the time, mute, just following her man's orders. Asian girls never talked (Jubilee, Lady Deathstryke, Psylocke, Blink). Rogue needed protection all the time. With the exception of Jean, I think he neglected all the female characters he had. And still, there were more that could've been done with Jean, once she was mostly Logan's love interest.

So no, I don't feel satisfied with what he did with female characters. Especially considering how huge they are in the comics.
Sounds even worse when it's spelt out like that! This is the source material in comics with the largest amount of strong women. How can this not be evident on film after so many attempts?
 
Sounds even worse when it's spelt out like that! This is the source material in comics with the largest amount of strong women. How can this not be evident on film after so many attempts?

In all honesty, we can say what's been said several times in many places before: The X-Men franchise neglected basically all the characters not named Eric, Charles and Logan. Scott is a white straight man and he had less screentime in 4 movies (with Marsden) than Wolverine only in the first X-Men.

But given what the X-Men is about, given how relevant women are in the comics, it's ****ed up to see their treatment of female characters and minorities in general.

Watching for 20 years 3 white straight male characters talking about diversity and intolerance, while the real diversity is token in the background (like in DoFP), it's very, very disturbing. At least for me it is.
 
^^Lol, that's a very good point

I agree. At most, I'd like to see them have a Gimli/Legolas type friendly rivalry where they enjoy snarking at each other but are also clearly friends.

That really would be perfect
I remember one of my fave Scott/Logan scenes... (I tried finding an image online, but couldn't find it, maybe someone else knows the issue, think it was the Eve of Destruction arc a number of years back)... It was the two of them infiltrating Genosha I believe, and they had this great interaction about their plan that was very Legolas/Gimli-ish, that fun competitiveness that only longtime teammates have
 
Cyclops has never been charismatic, but maybe the movies could pull it off :grin:

they need to make Cyclops more [MCU] Cap-like, make him a good guy who's not without doubts and flaws, but is still a staunch believer in the dream. But he's gotta stop being the stick-up-his-butt boy scout. And then instead of being jealous of how 'totally-kewl' Wolverine is, give him actual concerns about Logan's violence and short temper and tendency to attack his teammates.

So I guess, part of the problem stems from the fact they never gave us the Berserker Wolverine, Fox-verine was always too superhero-ish and good, making Cyke just look boring in comparison.

Cyclops got very charismatic in the Utopia years and after.

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In all honesty, we can say what's been said several times in many places before: The X-Men franchise neglected basically all the characters not named Eric, Charles and Logan. Scott is a white straight man and he had less screentime in 4 movies (with Marsden) than Wolverine only in the first X-Men.

But given what the X-Men is about, given how relevant women are in the comics, it's ****ed up to see their treatment of female characters and minorities in general.

Watching for 20 years 3 white straight male characters talking about diversity and intolerance, while the real diversity is token in the background (like in DoFP), it's very, very disturbing. At least for me it is.

It definitely is ready for an update. To play slight devils advocate, let’s remember that the eras of X-men that tend to be the most revered (Claremont’s run, Whedon’s gifted arc) is also largely white characters as stand in’s for representatives of racial/lgbtq discrimination. That said, Claremont at least was writing in the 70s, so we definitely are ready for updates. And at least Whedon focused on a female character as his “lead” of sorts during his run...but he really did only have 2 main female characters in Kitty and Emma.

So I would say that we should note the comics weren’t all that much better at times. But that isn’t an excuse to not do much better than what the 00’s films did.
 
It definitely is ready for an update. To play slight devils advocate, let’s remember that the eras of X-men that tend to be the most revered (Claremont’s run, Whedon’s gifted arc) is also largely white characters as stand in’s for representatives of racial/lgbtq discrimination. That said, Claremont at least was writing in the 70s, so we definitely are ready for updates. And at least Whedon focused on a female character as his “lead” of sorts during his run...but he really did only have 2 main female characters in Kitty and Emma.

So I would say that we should note the comics weren’t all that much better at times. But that isn’t an excuse to not do much better than what the 00’s films did.

Absolutely. And we've talked about this here several times when discussing whether or not Marvel will race-change a few characters. There were pages and pages about this subject here. When you look at the X-Men main characters they lack a lot of diversity. And, at least in my opinion, there should be (and I think there will be) more diversity when Marvel take over. Probably by changing a few characters.

But as much as they lack in that department in the comics, you can't really compare how they were treated in the movies. They had diversity in their hands. Characters who are major players and fan favorites. But they were stucked in the background, with barely any lines, a personality or an arc. Some of them just being killed off. The treatment of Storm, Betsy, Jubilee, Bishop, Rogue, Sunspot and many other characters was criminal.

In terms of diversity, a Homecoming type of cast is what I, and some other fans, want:

4db7e7f672b7406c2b5e41d3e007b9fe.jpg
 
Absolutely. And we've talked about this here several times when discussing whether or not Marvel will race-change a few characters. There were pages and pages about this subject here. When you look at the X-Men main characters they lack a lot of diversity. And, at least in my opinion, there should be (and I think there will be) more diversity when Marvel take over. Probably by changing a few characters.

But as much as they lack in that department in the comics, you can't really compare how they were treated in the movies. They had diversity in their hands. Characters who are major players and fan favorites. But they were stucked in the background, with barely any lines, a personality or an arc. Some of them just being killed off. The treatment of Storm, Betsy, Jubilee, Bishop, Rogue, Sunspot and many other characters was criminal.

In terms of diversity, a Homecoming type of cast is what I, and some other fans, want:

4db7e7f672b7406c2b5e41d3e007b9fe.jpg
That's exactly what I want to see
 
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Cyclops, Beast, Gambit, Wolverine, Jean Grey and Storm.

Add Rogue and Nightcrawler for the sequel.
 
Leave wolverine out of the first. Unless he's somewhat of an antagonist imo.
 
6 is a great number to start. But they can also have background characters who don't go on the field mission. Start setting things up for the future slowly too.
 
I was reading some of the X-Men Forever miniseries that came out in the early 2000's and came across a sentient AI ship named Prosh in this series (not a very cool name I know).

Also known, as "Ship" I see there are a few interesting points pertaining to Apocalypse's origin, it being left on earth by the celestials, and even serving as X-Factor's HQ for a while before taking off into space. I don't know much about this but does seem to be an interesting concept. Synopsis can be found here: Ship (Character) - Comic Vine

Here are also all the comics appearances this character/ship has made in Marvel Comics: Ship Comics - Comic Vine

If comicvine ordered all the appearances by date it would be perfect but can click on where it says "appearances" (don't click on title or get all the issues without appearances as well) and can get some added info. on exact issue numbers. Better than the amalgamated history on wikipedia I suppose where impossible hard to get ordered history on a character.

Anyway, I think this would be a good connecting point to the cosmos, Apokalypse (my favorite X-Men villain with lots of great story potential), and MCU timeline differentiating mutants from others created by the celestials.
 
There are 6 people in that pic. 3 men and 3 women. 2 white and 4 people of color. Give me an X-Men roster like this and I'll be very, very happy.

6 is a really good number to start.
Same. I feel like this is probably what Marvel is going to go for. If they made diversity a priority for HC, then X-Men is almost guaranteed to be just as diverse considering the subject matter of the franchise as a whole. I love the idea of updating the X-Men to actually reflect minorities in like today's world
 
Storm, Scott and Jean are a must to me. They should be the core of the movie.

The rest is bonus.
 
Personally, I'd just like to see the minority characters receive more screentime rather than changing anyone, the X-Men have so many great non-white characters
Bishop is amazing, Storm always should've had a bigger role, what they did with Psylocke was a crime, give me Armor, Moonstar, and Sunspot... I'd much rather see some fresh blood in terms of the characters getting focus rather than giving us the Xavier-Magneto-Wolverine show again with one of them being race-swapped
 
It definitely is ready for an update. To play slight devils advocate, let’s remember that the eras of X-men that tend to be the most revered (Claremont’s run, Whedon’s gifted arc) is also largely white characters as stand in’s for representatives of racial/lgbtq discrimination. That said, Claremont at least was writing in the 70s, so we definitely are ready for updates. And at least Whedon focused on a female character as his “lead” of sorts during his run...but he really did only have 2 main female characters in Kitty and Emma.

So I would say that we should note the comics weren’t all that much better at times. But that isn’t an excuse to not do much better than what the 00’s films did.

To play even more devil's advocate, Claremont's X-Men were considered very diverse for its time. Most Marvel heroes prior to it were white Americans. Giant-Size and the Claremont run were the first to have heroes from different parts of the world. Mostly from white parts of the world, sure, but that's still progressive by Marvel's then-standards.

Same goes for the X-Women. Other than maybe Sue Storm, I don't think there were as many A-list heroines as in X-Men. Wasp and Black Widow didn't carry as much presence. Carol Danvers and She-Hulk were just taking off.

Therefore if we're to stay true to the spirit of Claremont, the X-Men should be diverse by 2018 standards.
 
The vast majority of the X-Men characters (especially the major ones) are white:

ogchndet04a01.jpg


There are, of course, some minority characters that deserve some much needed love like Storm, Psylocke, Jubilee and Bishop for instance. And characters like Moonstar and Beto have to be in New Mutants. But I'd argue that some of these characters like Jubilee, Bishop, Forge or Thunderbird aren't really leads and major characters in the X-Men universe.

Unless you want the main characters of the X-Men movies to be a roster of Scott, Storm, Psylocke, Bishop, Forge, Cecelia Reyes, Sunfire and Jubilee, I think you would need some changes.

How many black women they have? How many black men, latinos, asians? How many LGBTQs? I absolutely agree that the X-Men needs to be updated for 2018 standard.
 
Personally, I'd just like to see the minority characters receive more screentime rather than changing anyone, the X-Men have so many great non-white characters
Bishop is amazing, Storm always should've had a bigger role, what they did with Psylocke was a crime, give me Armor, Moonstar, and Sunspot... I'd much rather see some fresh blood in terms of the characters getting focus rather than giving us the Xavier-Magneto-Wolverine show again with one of them being race-swapped

All Marvel needs to do is cast the minority characters with their usual great talent, give them actual personalities, story arcs, and dialog, and refrain from killing them off (Darwin, every minority hero in DOFP).
 
The vast majority of the X-Men characters (especially the major ones) are white:

ogchndet04a01.jpg


There are, of course, some minority characters that deserve some much needed love like Storm, Psylocke, Jubilee and Bishop for instance. And characters like Moonstar and Beto have to be in New Mutants. But I'd argue that some of these characters like Jubilee, Bishop, Forge or Thunderbird aren't really leads and major characters in the X-Men universe.

Unless you want the main characters of the X-Men movies to be a roster of Scott, Storm, Psylocke, Bishop, Forge, Cecelia Reyes, Sunfire and Jubilee, I think you would need some changes.

How many black women they have? How many black men, latinos, asians? How many LGBTQs? I absolutely agree that the X-Men needs to be updated for 2018 standard.
This.

And I really like the idea of Victoria Justice as Rouge too.
 
Oh, by the way, casting people of color to play blue characters do not count.
 
I'd say casting an Asian guy as the square-jawed, good looking and heroic leader of the X-Men instead of giving the role to yet another Chris would be a good start. Asian-American men almost never get to be the heroes in Hollywood.
 
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