Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

[EnDz0n3]

So any attempt to stray from that vision tends to alienate a huge portion of the fandom. Hence many not caring about who Rogue was before Jim Lee, ditto for the rest of the X-Men.

Not really. Many people do love the idea of Rogue starting out as part of the Brotherhood. And all of that was wayyyy before Jim Lee even did his first Uncanny X-men comic book.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

So I don't get this condescending way people talk about people who grew up in the 90s

Alot of 90's X-MEN fans are turning into old men on the front porch. "Not my X-MEN! That's not how it happened in the cartoon!" etc etc Which I find funny because the cartoon just took the stories from the 70/80's and updated it to fit the 90s. Like Bishop in DoFP or Gambit in Phoenix etc.

The 90's X-MEN was great but more than half the fanbase moved onto other things like DBZ & Pokemon by the time AoA came around.

Since they quit X-MEN around that time they bring everything back to stuff that happened over 30 years ago in the 90s.

That's why it's frustrating talking X-MEN with a cartoon fan sometimes.

 

[Lip]

Hence many not caring about who Rogue was before Jim Lee, ditto for the rest of the X-Men.

I genuinely have never seen this on Hype. Everybody I see talking about Rogue wants her to start before Carol's powers.

Alot of 90's X-MEN fans are turning into old men on the front porch. "Not my X-MEN! That's not how it happened in the cartoon!"

I genuinely have never seen people talking like this on Hype. And I've been here for quite some time.

 

[Lip]

The vast majority of people definitely want Jim Lee era X-Men adapted on the big screen.

Also, what exactly from the Jim Lee's era you see people here wanting besides the costumes (which are iconic)? Because in terms of storylines from that era, I rarely see people bringing up Jim Lee.

Mutant Massacre, Inferno, House of M, Decimation M, Fall of Mutants, Age of Apocalypse, Fall of Shiar Empire, Operation Zero Tolerance are some of the stories usually brought up here.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I find it interesting that so many want the films to follow the books... But then with Psylocke they want to jump right into her sexy Asian female form and totally forget about her being born an English woman and actually being around for years in the comics like that before the whole convoluted plot where she changed places with a ninja chick.

Well, for one there's no way in a million years that Marvel will try to do the mindswap thing in the movies, because there's really no way to do it without it coming off horribly wrong. And no one really cares because I've yet to meet anyone who finds the old version of "Betsy" interesting.

It's like how no one wants to see a Superman who can't fly.

 

[Tg11]

Or another Disney cast I would go with for X Men

Charles Xavier/Professor X- Ralph Fiennes
Erik Lehnsherr/Magneto- Viggo Mortensen
James "Logan" Howlett/Wolverine- Milo Gibson

Jean Grey- Saoirse Ronan
Scott Summers/Cyclops- Dacre Montgomery

Hank McCoy/Beast- Will Poulter
Piotr Rasputin/Colossus- Alexander Ludwig

Kitty Pryde/Shadowcat- Millie Bobby Brown
Marie/Rogue- Katherine Langford
Kurt Wagner/Nightcrawler- Bill Skarsgard
Ororo Monroe/Storm- Zoe Kravitz
Jubilation Lee/Jubilee- Peyton Elizabeth Lee

Warren Worthington III/Angel- Alex Pettyfer

Bobby Drake/Iceman- Jace Norman
Remy LeBeau/Gambit- KJ Apa
Raven Darkholme/Mystique- Evan Rachel Wood

John Allerdyce/Pyro- Jake Abel
Victor Creed/Sabretooth- Wyatt Russell
Toad- Frank Dillane
Senator Kelly- Brett Cullen

 

[Marvel united]

Also, what exactly from the Jim Lee's era you see people here wanting besides the costumes (which are iconic)? Because in terms of storylines from that era, I rarely see people bringing up Jim Lee.

Mutant Massacre, Inferno, House of M, Decimation M, Fall of Mutants, Age of Apocalypse, Fall of Shiar Empire, Operation Zero Tolerance are some of the stories usually brought up here.

Not really. Many people do love the idea of Rogue starting out as part of the Brotherhood. And all of that was wayyyy before Jim Lee even did his first Uncanny X-men comic book.

The story most want is basically an adaptation of "Night of The Sentinels". where an older, grizzled X-Men come out of hiding and there's a young "Pov" character (Jubilee in TAS) that is introduced to this wondrous world that has always been around. (Imo the X-Men should be the POV of their own stories)

Then there's the roster. I've seen dozens of people clamoring for that roster, with Rogue in it. Wasn't there a guy last year arguing that Rogue's irresponsible, misunderstood villain phase can be shown in flashbacks because that's what the TAS did?

And yes, there's the costume too. It just is what it is and it's been obvious for a very long time. Of course there's nothing wrong with any of this but it's the truth.

 

[Lip]

The story most want is basically an adaptation of "Night of The Sentinels".

I couldn't disagree with you more. You're talking like this narrative is exclusive to TAS, and not to basically every incarnation of the X-Men. We've seen that young character POV joining the X-Men several times: Jubilee in TAS, Kurt in XME, Kitty in Pryde of the X-Men, Rogue in X1 and Raven in FC. Hell, even the first X-Men issue starts with a 15 year old Jean joining the team. Acting like this narrative only happened in TAS and is only influenced by it it's crazy.


What I am noticing here is people using TAS as a form to try to discredit valid points they don't agree with. We want Psylocke asian mostly due the lack of representantion. But those who want to see a caucasian Betsy come here and say what? That we are just obsessed with Jim Lee's era. For me this is a very cheap way to try to discredit that.

A few pages back the exact same thing happened when we were (coincidentally) talking about lack of representation. Then came out this idea that we're just obsessed with TAS characters, ignoring that those are iconic characters, and we want meaningful representation. There is a reason why Bobby was retconned gay instead of Northstar becoming a face of the X-Men.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

We want Psylocke asian mostly due the lack of representantion. But those who want to see a caucasian Betsy come here and say what? That we are just obsessed with Jim Lee's era. For me this is a very cheap way to try to discredit that.

I'd prefer Betsy to be white since it makes everything simpler imo.

I can see it going either way. But I think the books making her white again might be a preview of things to come on screen.

 

[Mad Ones]

I would leave Psylocke out of the films completely.

 

[MbJ]

I'd like if they used Jubilee and actually let her do something in these movies for once. It's such a shame Fox wasted Lana Condor like that right before her big break.

 

[Lip]

Marvel doesn't have to put Carol in a coma and end a whole franchise just to adapt her encounter with Rogue.

I think Psylocke can very well be introduced as asian with only her original powers. Then creating a new and original story for her to gain her new ones. Without that mindswapping thing. Didn't Marvel had to come up with a new story to justify Pietro and Wanda's powers? A little creativity can resolve all that for Betsy.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I'd much rather psylock be Asian with a simple origin. And if we dont get her in a movie maybe she can headline a solo tv series or be on a xmen show.

 

[Frankeh]

I can’t believe Marvel united is now pushing the idea that TAS is the wrong vision for X-Men.

 

[EnDz0n3]

I don’t buy this idea that most fans only want the TAS era emulated for the MCU.

For one Psylocke barely showed up on that show yet when there’s talk of roster of who people want she inevitably shows up on many. Ditto Kitty (did Kitty even show up on TAS? I genuinely don’t remember.)
Gambit was a TAS fan-fave. Most fancasts take or leave him.

Wolverine was arguably the star of that show. People are fine waiting for the second flick to see him. Heck, some people don’t even want him as an X-man, but as an Avenger.

 

[Lip]

I don’t buy this idea that most fans only want the TAS era emulated for the MCU.

For one Psylocke barely showed up on that show yet when there’s talk of roster of who people want she inevitably shows up on many. Ditto Kitty (did Kitty even show up on TAS? I genuinely don’t remember.)
Gambit was a TAS fan-fave. Most fancasts take or leave him.

Wolverine was arguably the star of that show. People are fine waiting for the second flick to see him. Heck, some people don’t even want him as an X-man, but as an Avenger.

Wolverine, Gambit and Beast are usually left behind in fancastings we see here. While Kitty, Nightcrawler and Betsy are mostly brought up.

 

[Lip]

I would leave Psylocke out of the films completely.

Psylocke is one of the few A-List X-Men members that can be considered a minority. She's one of the faces of the X-Men and a very important member. Leaving her behind, in my opinion, would only embarass the X-Men even further in terms of representing minorities.

 

[Frankeh]

I don’t buy this idea that most fans only want the TAS era emulated for the MCU.

For one Psylocke barely showed up on that show yet when there’s talk of roster of who people want she inevitably shows up on many. Ditto Kitty (did Kitty even show up on TAS? I genuinely don’t remember.)
Gambit was a TAS fan-fave. Most fancasts take or leave him.

Wolverine was arguably the star of that show. People are fine waiting for the second flick to see him. Heck, some people don’t even want him as an X-man, but as an Avenger.

A lot of people want to see Emma Frost done right in MCU as well and she was barely on that show.

More and more it sounds like Marvel united dislikes the idea of pre-existing X-Men and is trying to drag everything that smells of that.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Don’t forget that those pre-existing X-men have to be “grizzled” too.

Alot of 90's X-MEN fans are turning into old men on the front porch. "Not my X-MEN! That's not how it happened in the cartoon!" etc etc Which I find funny because the cartoon just took the stories from the 70/80's and updated it to fit the 90s. Like Bishop in DoFP or Gambit in Phoenix etc.

That's why it's frustrating talking X-MEN with a cartoon fan sometimes.

Yea that can be frustrating. I imagine come MCU, we’ll have clueless youtubers (with a billion followers) growing up on Fox’s films asking why Mystique (without scales) isn’t Charles’ sister, why Stryker isn’t the head of Weapon X and how come Rogue is happy?

 

[Mad Ones]

Psylocke is one of the few A-List X-Men members that can be considered a minority. She's one of the faces of the X-Men and a very important member. Leaving her behind, in my opinion, would only embarass the X-Men even further in terms of representing minorities.

She’s a token whose lived experiences had nothing to do with being Asian until the mindswap made her an orientalist fantasy.

 

[Lip]

She’s a token whose lived experiences had nothing to do with being Asian until the mindswap made her an orientalist fantasy.

Betsy is originally caucasian in the comics. Then there was that mindswapping thing. The version most popular, most succesful and the one people associate Psylocke with is that asian version. In a way, even if it's a weird one, you have a established asian hero.

The comics has a lot of problem with racism, sexism and homophobia. Female characters for instance are constantly over sexualized. Do we need to bring that to the big screen? So I don't see why we cannot take Betsy and turn her into a positive image. It isn't really hard.

 

[Mad Ones]

Betsy is originally caucasian in the comics. Then there was that mindswapping thing. The version most popular, most succesful and the one people associate Psylocke with is that asian version. In a way, even if it's a weird one, you have a established asian hero.

The comics has a lot of problem with racism, sexism and homophobia. Female characters for instance are constantly over sexualized. Do we need to bring that to the big screen? So I don't see why we cannot take Betsy and turn her into a positive image. It isn't really hard.

That's what I mean. Betsy lived her whole life as a white person until the sci fi equivalent of yellowface changed the way she looks. She didn't grow up and live as someone racialized, as someone living in a diaspora, as a first/second/third generation immigrant, as adopted into a white family, etc. The only thing that changed is that she became a sexy ninja. Her representation can only ever be that superficial.

Yeah, the movies can fundamentally change this but I can't help but see her presence in a film as something that entrenches what was always a terrible mistake in the comics.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I'd much rather psylock be Asian with a simple origin. And if we dont get her in a movie maybe she can headline a solo tv series or be on a xmen show.

^^^ This. I think she could me introduced very naturally in Shang-Chi, given his ties to British metahuman organizations and the Braddock family.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

^^^ This. I think she could me introduced very naturally in Shang-Chi, given his ties to British metahuman organizations and the Braddock family.

Bingo, it'd make for a nice introduction.

 

[Marvel united]

A lot of people want to see Emma Frost done right in MCU as well and she was barely on that show.

More and more it sounds like Marvel united dislikes the idea of pre-existing X-Men and is trying to drag everything that smells of that.

Pre-existing does not mean have to mean they've been around for 10+ years. Spider-Man was pre-established and he had been active for 6 months. Carol Danvers was pre-established and she had been around 6 years

Spoiler

And didn't become Captain Marvel until the climax of the movie

I'm not against pre-existing heroes. I'm against unearned seasoned protagonists. There's a big difference