Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

[BobJM]

That's good--I actually completely forgot about Forge's prosthetic leg. I just think he'd be a better science guy for the X-Men right now. I could use a break from Beast. Or, like I pitched, let him play in other MCU franchises. Forge also gives you an opportunity to develop a techno-aesthetic that's unique and separate from Stark tech.

Regarding Angel's story, we haven't really seen in the MCU a hero turn villain yet so I think that'd be great story ground for them to cover.

 

[SumT]

Very strong starting lineup I especially love the inclusion of Angel (Who heavily underutilized by Fox) and Forge's positioning in a role similar to W&TXM. Only thing, i'd swap Jubilee for Kitty, because although I love Jubilation, I'd ultimately prefer Kitty in this role.

I don't know, this just feels right. This feels like MCU X-MEN.

so you want to get rid of the actual POC X-woman?
interesting

 

[Lip]

Very strong starting lineup I especially love the inclusion of Angel (Who heavily underutilized by Fox) and Forge's positioning in a role similar to W&TXM. Only thing, i'd swap Jubilee for Kitty, because although I love Jubilation, I'd ultimately prefer Kitty in this role.

I don't know, this just feels right. This feels like MCU X-MEN.

As much as people think Angel is the most boring X-Men, he's one of the supporting characters with one of the biggest stories to tell. Colossus, Nightcrawler, Betsy, etc do not have a big story like that.

And yeah, I want Kitty as the POV character for the MCU. Having a 10 year journey with her would be amazing.

I think having Jubilee as sidekick in the Wolverine movies could work.

 

[Marvel united]

That's good--I actually completely forgot about Forge's prosthetic leg. I just think he'd be a better science guy for the X-Men right now. I could use a break from Beast. Or, like I pitched, let him play in other MCU franchises. Forge also gives you an opportunity to develop a techno-aesthetic that's unique and separate from Stark tech.

Regarding Angel's story, we haven't really seen in the MCU a hero turn villain yet so I think that'd be great story ground for them to cover.

I agree. Beast should be the X-Men's convective tissue to the wider MCU. Whether as an Avenger or, as you mentioned, a member of Illuminati (or both).

Forge is a fresh substitute, and could have a great journey of his own. Especially if he starts working for the Government later on, and we get an adaptation of one of the greatest X-Men stories ever told:

Which would have even more weight with a pre-existing history between Storm and Forge.

so you want to get rid of the actual POC X-woman?
interesting

It's reallly not that deep I'd just prefer Kitty. And it's not like she doesn't come with her own rep as a bi Jewish girl

As much as people think Angel is the most boring X-Men, he's one of the supporting characters with one of the biggest stories to tell. Colossus, Nightcrawler, Betsy, etc do not have a big story like that.

And yeah, I want Kitty as the POV character for the MCU. Having a 10 year journey with her would be amazing.

I think having Jubilee as sidekick in the Wolverine movies could work.

Exactly. There's a lot of untapped potential.

I'd love to see them tackle the father relationship. He wants to hide Warren for his family's public image, so he disappeared him at the school, hoping Xavier could find a way to "fix" this problem (his mutation). The moment Warren finally stands up to his dad could be worthy of an applause if people are properly invested.

I'm right there with you on Kitty. I'd love to see her start out as a wide-eyed kid and end as a young woman leading a team of her own. It could be amazing

And good call on Jubilee. That's actually a perfect role for her given how close she was to Logan

 

[BobJM]

If I’m relying solely on the comics, then yes, Kitty’s story has a more satisfying conclusion—or at least trajectory. She becomes the leader of the X-Meb. Jubilee’s a vampire, I think?

That being said, for the MCU, I just can’t see them passing up the opportunity to highlight/market a Chinese-American super-hero. Plus Jubilee has that 90s animated series allure. For better or worse, her character is remembered along with that show—and that’s a lot of people’s gateway into the lore.

In the MCU’s hands, maybe we’ll even get a half-decent arc for the character.

 

[Lip]

And good call on Jubilee. That's actually a perfect role for her given how close she was to Logan

You know how I feel about Logan, but that's why I keep saying that Logan having a connection with the X-Men from the start can be very beneficial. We can see multiple characters being developed in his movies too.

 

[Lip]

If I’m relying solely on the comics, then yes, Kitty’s story has a more satisfying conclusion—or at least trajectory. She becomes the leader of the X-Meb. Jubilee’s a vampire, I think?

I think the major difference between them is that you actually Kitty growing while Jubilee seems like an eternal teenager. That's the difference between their appeal, I guess.

Speaking of both, I remembered an interview with one of the TAS creator, and he said it was supposed to be Kitty Pryde there. But Marvel forced them to use Jubilee instead because she was a new character and they wanted to boost her popularity. Don't know if it was the same with Gambit.

Anyway, I won't be surprised to see them doing something similar in the MCU and pushing for a new character (not necessarily the POV one).

 

[EnDz0n3]

If they use Iceman as a character at all, they pretty much *have* to include his sexual orientation. . . if only because "Bobby Drake is straight gay" is pretty much the sum total of characterization he's gotten over the decades.

Yea unfortunately that's pretty much Iceman's schtick. What has Iceman really done in the comics? His body being taken over by White Queen that one time in Uncanny 300's? I think he went on a road trip with Rogue once? His being gay is his claim to fame.

I can't really say where the comics went with that revelation, or if it was even handled well (I haven't read the funny books in a while) but it certainly makes him unique, makes him stand out from the rest. Now, I still have my doubts the MCU will actually "allow" a gay hero in their movies (Eternals? Yea I'll believe it when I see it). Afterall China is still a fairly big chunk of their market, which is unfortunate (not the China being a big chunk part, but that gay characters are still excluded).

 

[Lip]

Yea unfortunately that's pretty much Iceman's schtick. What has Iceman really done in the comics? His body being taken over by White Queen that one time in Uncanny 300's? I think he went on a road trip with Rogue once? His being gay is his claim to fame.

I can't really say where the comics went with that revelation, or if it was even handled well (I haven't read the funny books in a while) but it certainly makes him unique, makes him stand out from the rest. Now, I still have my doubts the MCU will actually "allow" a gay hero in their movies (Eternals? Yea I'll believe it when I see it). Afterall China is still a fairly big chunk of their market, which is unfortunate (not the China being a big chunk part, but that gay characters are still excluded).

Yeah, how much Marvel will embrace LGBTQ characters remains to be seen. I do feel positive about it.

I think worst case scenario is Bobby being wink wink shhh he's gay, but we don't get to see anything, sort of like wink wink shhh Valkyrie is gay too. And then Bobby being more openly gay on a D+ show.

But I don't see them making him straight at all.

 

[Marvel united]

If Marvel did decide to go with Jubilee, I certainly wouldn't have an issue. There is a great, emotional, socially relevant story to tell about an orphaned child of Chinese immigrants

But inevitably, there is going to be some melding of Kitty in there, as that's traditionally her role.

 

[Lip]

Also, I think this could be cool in the MCU:

 

[BobJM]

That would be very cool. I wonder if that's even in the cards.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Yeah, how much Marvel will embrace LGBTQ characters remains to be seen. I do feel positive about it.

I think worst case scenario is Bobby being wink wink shhh he's gay, but we don't get to see anything, sort of like wink wink shhh Valkyrie is gay too. And then Bobby being more openly gay on a D+ show.

But I don't see them making him straight at all.

A few questions:
(1) Avengers Endgame in China, did Disney remove the gay character that one of the Russo brothers played? Not necessarily an indicator of things to come. Afterall, the term gay was never said. Just that the person he was out on a date with was also a "he."
(2) Are there gay characters in D+ shows?

Being gay myself, I would love this to be a non-issue. But again, I have my doubts that Disney would go thru with it.

 

[MilkmanDan]

Yea unfortunately that's pretty much Iceman's schtick. What has Iceman really done in the comics? His body being taken over by White Queen that one time in Uncanny 300's? I think he went on a road trip with Rogue once? His being gay is his claim to fame.

I can't really say where the comics went with that revelation, or if it was even handled well (I haven't read the funny books in a while) but it certainly makes him unique, makes him stand out from the rest. Now, I still have my doubts the MCU will actually "allow" a gay hero in their movies (Eternals? Yea I'll believe it when I see it). Afterall China is still a fairly big chunk of their market, which is unfortunate (not the China being a big chunk part, but that gay characters are still excluded).

Yeah, I feel Iceman always had a hard time finding his role as a character. He was the most juvenile of the O5 but that still made him a senior X-Man, so he couldn't really keep being portrayed as the immature one when younger characters came around. He was a class clown and a practical joker, but old school Beast was just as funny as he was, if not funnier. So, I guess he never quite found his niche.

I hope MCU finds a way to make him stand out. One way that could work might be to play up the Cyclops/Iceman dynamic. The comics have used it a bit more in the past years and I think it works. Scott's stoicism and Bobby's fun-loving nature could make an entertaining friendship. And if they're holding out on bringing back Logan, Scott will be in need of a good foil.

 

[Lip]

A few questions:
(1) Avengers Endgame in China, did Disney remove the gay character that one of the Russo brothers played? Not necessarily an indicator of things to come. Afterall, the term gay was never said. Just that the person he was out on a date with was also a "he."
(2) Are there gay characters in D+ shows?

Being gay myself, I would love this to be a non-issue. But again, I have my doubts that Disney would go thru with it.

I honeslty don't know the answer for both questions. I did a quick research and didn't see anything about the upcoming shows. But I do know Disney have been introducing queer characters and queer romances on their kid/teen shows. But I haven't seen any of those shows to know how are the portrayals.

However, my point about the D+ is that I feel like it's safer to do it there in case of possible boycot.

 

[THORin]

I honeslty don't know the answer for both questions. I did a quick research and didn't see anything about the upcoming shows. But I do know Disney have been introducing queer characters and queer romances on their kid/teen shows. But I haven't seen any of those shows to know how are the portrayals.

However, my point about the D+ is that I feel like it's safer to do it there in case of possible boycot.

Yeah, TV has traditionally always been (marginally) more progressive in terms of LGBTQ+ diversity. And it’s rumored that the Loki series will touch on Loki’s gender-fluidity and possibly his bisexuality; WandaVision will probably feature Wiccan’s coming out; and Ms Marvel will likely include one of Kamala’s best friends who is lesbian. Nothing confirmed yet, but it’s looking good.

 

[Lip]

Yeah, TV has traditionally always been (marginally) more progressive in terms of LGBTQ+ diversity. And it’s rumored that the Loki series will touch on Loki’s gender-fluidity and possibly his bisexuality; WandaVision will probably feature Wiccan’s coming out; and Ms Marvel will likely include one of Kamala’s best friends who is lesbian. Nothing confirmed yet, but it’s looking good.

If true, Loki is an example of not bringing up an A-List character' sexuality, but exploring it on a show.

I can see something like that with Bobby. Like I said: worst case scenario. I want and I hope to see him and other openly gay characters on the big screen.

 

[psylockolussus]

I liked the Frozen story arc Iceman had in Astonishing X-Men. He also had a bit of a storyline during decimation.

 

[Iceman]

Angel’s fall from grace would be a great multi-film arc for the character—Going from rich club kid in the tabloids to exposed/outed mutant, and finally descending into Sinister’s grasp before his reawakening as Archangel.

It could be a very strong character piece. I hope we get the chance to see this, with the seeds planted early on.

 

[Iceman]

Also, I think this could be cool in the MCU:

Beyond cool! Fans would be having a meltdown! (ice pun intended )

 

[Marvel united]

Yea unfortunately that's pretty much Iceman's schtick. What has Iceman really done in the comics? His body being taken over by White Queen that one time in Uncanny 300's? I think he went on a road trip with Rogue once? His being gay is his claim to fame.

I can't really say where the comics went with that revelation, or if it was even handled well (I haven't read the funny books in a while) but it certainly makes him unique, makes him stand out from the rest. Now, I still have my doubts the MCU will actually "allow" a gay hero in their movies (Eternals? Yea I'll believe it when I see it). Afterall China is still a fairly big chunk of their market, which is unfortunate (not the China being a big chunk part, but that gay characters are still excluded).

Facts. Which is ironic considering certain people complaining about it, as if it's not what boosted him into mainstream.

I see Eternals as a glass ceiling type deal. Feige has no doubt been pushing for LGBT representation, and if Eternals is a success, it will open the door to much more in the future. I think Eternals will even have the first on-screen gay kiss in the MCU.

So even if Marvel doesn't do a coming out story with Bobby, they can still firmly establish him as gay. He's just out, has a boyfriend. Maybe they could even deal with his intersecting identities, and how that shapes a unique experience for him

 

[Lip]

Feige has no doubt been pushing for LGBT representation

Just a side note: I don't think Feige is pushing all this diversity. I do think he's on board, but not the one behind it. I think it's coming from other Disney/Marvel execs.

Feige is a man, white, cis, rich and as far as we know, straight. It's hard to believe he's the one pushing that.

 

[Marvel united]

Just a side note: I don't think Feige is pushing all this diversity. I do think he's on board, but not the one behind it. I think it's coming from other Disney/Marvel execs.

Feige is a man, white, cis, rich and as far as we know, straight. It's hard to believe he's the one pushing that.

To be fair, Feige seems to have a level of understanding that I haven't seen in any producer since my own attempt at getting into the industry years ago (in College). This is the quote that sold me:

It’s something that’s easy to take for granted, growing up in the United States as a white male, that my cinematic heroes look like me. I never thought they looked exactly like me, because I’m not a big athletic hero, but they do. It’s something that over the course of these ten years, having a certain amount of power over what type of movies are made and what type of actors we hire, I want everybody to have that feeling. We don’t take it for granted that people want to see themselves reflected in our heroes and our characters. That’s been the case in the comics for years, and, finally, that’s the case in the movies, and will only continue from here.”

Kevin Feige on Black Panther's Budget, Diversity & Representation

Feige is demonstrating a level of self awareness; that he is perfectly aware of everything you just mentioned. That he's white, that he's straight, that he's a man, and he's rich, and he has privilege by virtue of being these things. Privilege that other people do not have.

And this is hugely important as it's an essential step in critical thinking. It's something many people struggle to, and in some cases, refuse to understand: the axes of privilege.

Feige was in conflict with old guard for years. An infamously racist, homophobic, misogynistic old man in Ike Perlmutter. It's no coincidence that once Perlmutter was out of the way, MCU's creative choices started becoming more progressive. That's Feige heading the ship.

Diversity is the future.

On a side note, I'm curious as to who you would cast as Kitty.

 

[metaphysician]

Yea unfortunately that's pretty much Iceman's schtick. What has Iceman really done in the comics? His body being taken over by White Queen that one time in Uncanny 300's? I think he went on a road trip with Rogue once? His being gay is his claim to fame.

I can't really say where the comics went with that revelation, or if it was even handled well (I haven't read the funny books in a while) but it certainly makes him unique, makes him stand out from the rest. Now, I still have my doubts the MCU will actually "allow" a gay hero in their movies (Eternals? Yea I'll believe it when I see it). Afterall China is still a fairly big chunk of their market, which is unfortunate (not the China being a big chunk part, but that gay characters are still excluded).

I am comfortable saying that China being a big chunk of the market, what with being a repressive tyranny actively engaged in both the ethnic cleansing of millions *and* foreign expansionism, is entirely unfortunate. *cough*

 

[Silvermoth]

If they use Iceman as a character at all, they pretty much *have* to include his sexual orientation. . . if only because "Bobby Drake is straight gay" is pretty much the sum total of characterization he's gotten over the decades.

I get this critique but there’s actually a lot to Bobby’s story over the years and a lot of development, such as when his bully of a dad got beaten up for standing up to Graydon Creed at one of his rallies. It’s worth checking out the iceman episode on the cerebro podcast for more and to see actually how interesting he is, as well as being a gay man.