Comics Most annoying recent change?

[Dangerous]

He got nothing about HIS CHARACTER wrong.. he just used the mystical elements... that doesnt change his personality.. just that his powers were predestined... he was always ment to be spider-man.. i see nothin wrong with that.

He (JMS) got PP's character wrong.
SM never previously idolized any other hero, he respected em sure, but he did not idolize anyone.
Go read SM comics from 20 years ago, he was a wise-cracking self assured bad ass taking on Super-Villains far more powerful than himself.
Now he is a ***** who is in love w/ Tony Stark and can't even beat Captain America in a fight.

Everything about 616 SM these days is wrong, especially his characterisation by JMS.

 

[Dangerous]

Anyway I gotta get to bed, it's 1am here in the UK now.
Will b back later today good nite webheads.

 

[SpideyInATree]

I don’t think he has nailed Parker really well at all. He developed MJ and May into interesting characters again a few years back but today PP is basically just Tony Stark 's girlfriend and no longer has any backbone or is funny anymore.

That is not Spider-man I'm afraid.
Bad storylines, that's putting it mildly.
Creative disasters aside- Stingers, pointless death/power upgrades, s-hit costume changes,
Gwen would not screw Norman Osborn, and SM would not unmask after so long for basically no reason. To keep his word w/ Stark?, The REAL Spidey would never have been so dumb to swear his life over to Stark in the first place.

As for SP that ain’t retconed at all.
It’s current status quo and will remain so until a writer w/ the balls and know how comes along and un does the whole mess. Just cause it has not been mentioned for two years don mean jack.
Going on that equation we could assume that Harry Osborn is not dead, Doctor Octopus never tried to wed May and SM never beat Juggy to a tactical standstill.

Then we have a difference of opinion as to what we see Peter Parker as. You, like many others, see him as a Tony Stark lackey. I see the Peter Parker who is extremely loyal to those that he befriends. We've never gotten a chance to see how Peter would react to friends who share the same type of second life that he has. Tony Stark has done a lot for him and he's merely enjoying the friendship/father figure-like relationship.

Personally, people just seem to be throwing that "lackey", "sidekick", or as you put it "girlfriend" because they didn't like the new costume when it was presented. And also because in many of the issues he kept calling Tony "boss" and ALL ALONG I said, "He's not being SERIOUS, he's busting Tony's chops like he does to EVERYBODY". And that's EXACTLY what he was doing, and Pete even said it in # 533 after he unmasked.

And there was a reason he unmasked and I've gone into so many times now that I feel like my head is going to explode. Yes, Tony Stark asked Peter to unmask, but that's not really the reason that he did it. First off, Aunt May gave him her and MJ's blessing to go through with it, which was another fine issue of Amazing Spider-Man. Second of all, 600 innocent people died in a disaster that was inadvertantly caused by a superhero group trying to cash in on heroics with their reality tv show. Heroes that remind him much of himself. Peter Parker is someone who will sacrifice himself to help make a difference and that's precisely what he's done.

We've got differing opinions in what we're interpreting out of this story and everything that has led up to it. While some of the stories haven't been great, and just because you don't seem to like them, doesn't mean that he's out of character or any less smart. Just seems that things aren't going the way that you want them to go, as well as many others here.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

He (JMS) got PP's character wrong.
SM never previously idolized any other hero, he respected em sure, but he did not idolize anyone.
Go read SM comics from 20 years ago, he was a wise-cracking self assured bad ass taking on Super-Villains far more powerful than himself.
Now he is a ***** who is in love w/ Tony Stark and can't even beat Captain America in a fight.

Everything about 616 SM these days is wrong, especially his characterisation by JMS.

Peter doesn't idolize stark as a hero.. he idolizes his brains.. his intelligence.. peter has always idolized fellow scientists.. thats not a stretch at all

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Then we have a difference of opinion as to what we see Peter Parker as. You, like many others, see him as a Tony Stark lackey. I see the Peter Parker who is extremely loyal to those that he befriends. We've never gotten a chance to see how Peter would react to friends who share the same type of second life that he has. Tony Stark has done a lot for him and he's merely enjoying the friendship/father figure-like relationship.

Personally, people just seem to be throwing that "lackey", "sidekick", or as you put it "girlfriend" because they didn't like the new costume when it was presented. And also because in many of the issues he kept calling Tony "boss" and ALL ALONG I said, "He's not being SERIOUS, he's busting Tony's chops like he does to EVERYBODY". And that's EXACTLY what he was doing, and Pete even said it in # 533 after he unmasked.

And there was a reason he unmasked and I've gone into so many times now that I feel like my head is going to explode. Yes, Tony Stark asked Peter to unmask, but that's not really the reason that he did it. First off, Aunt May gave him her and MJ's blessing to go through with it, which was another fine issue of Amazing Spider-Man. Second of all, 600 innocent people died in a disaster that was inadvertantly caused by a superhero group trying to cash in on heroics with their reality tv show. Heroes that remind him much of himself. Peter Parker is someone who will sacrifice himself to help make a difference and that's precisely what he's done.

We've got differing opinions in what we're interpreting out of this story and everything that has led up to it. While some of the stories haven't been great, and just because you don't seem to like them, doesn't mean that he's out of character or any less smart. Just seems that things aren't going the way that you want them to go, as well as many others here.

*applaudes... you hit the nail on the head.. thank you

 

[Chris Wallace]

Then we have a difference of opinion as to what we see Peter Parker as. You, like many others, see him as a Tony Stark lackey. I see the Peter Parker who is extremely loyal to those that he befriends. We've never gotten a chance to see how Peter would react to friends who share the same type of second life that he has. Tony Stark has done a lot for him and he's merely enjoying the friendship/father figure-like relationship.

Personally, people just seem to be throwing that "lackey", "sidekick", or as you put it "girlfriend" because they didn't like the new costume when it was presented. And also because in many of the issues he kept calling Tony "boss" and ALL ALONG I said, "He's not being SERIOUS, he's busting Tony's chops like he does to EVERYBODY". And that's EXACTLY what he was doing, and Pete even said it in # 533 after he unmasked.

And there was a reason he unmasked and I've gone into so many times now that I feel like my head is going to explode. Yes, Tony Stark asked Peter to unmask, but that's not really the reason that he did it. First off, Aunt May gave him her and MJ's blessing to go through with it, which was another fine issue of Amazing Spider-Man. Second of all, 600 innocent people died in a disaster that was inadvertantly caused by a superhero group trying to cash in on heroics with their reality tv show. Heroes that remind him much of himself. Peter Parker is someone who will sacrifice himself to help make a difference and that's precisely what he's done.

We've got differing opinions in what we're interpreting out of this story and everything that has led up to it. While some of the stories haven't been great, and just because you don't seem to like them, doesn't mean that he's out of character or any less smart. Just seems that things aren't going the way that you want them to go, as well as many others here.

Once again, we use such terms as "sidekick" not only because of the ridiculous costume, (which DOES make him look like a freakin' sidekick.) but what it represents; Peter no longer being his own man & making his own decisions. (Sidekicks don't get to do that.) He now does whatever he's told, regardless of what he believes is right or prudent. He fights respected allies, all the while beating himself up over it. He unmasked & has been kicking himself over it ever since. but he trusts Tony, & obeys him regardless. This is not what a smart person does. Peter's FIRST loyalty should be to his family, not to a recovering alcoholic who manipulates him. And he hasn't sacrificed himself here; he has sacrificed those that he loves. And Aunt May telling him to go through with it makes even less sense. She knows better than most how hated Spider-Man is by the general public. She's too old to think that people will reverse their positions just becuase they have a face to connect with the name. Plus, she herself has been kidnapped & put through hell not once, but twice, by ONE VILLAIN who knew who Spider-Man was. Her house was burned to the ground by another villain who just thought Peter had ratted him out to Spidey, forcing her to move into Avengers HQ. And these are just a few examples of Spider-Man's world invading hers. You'd think the last thing she'd want is to go through something like that again.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Peter doesn't idolize stark as a hero.. he idolizes his brains.. his intelligence.. peter has always idolized fellow scientists.. thats not a stretch at all

But Tony is a businessman first & a scientist second. He's completely full of s*** & Peter should be able to see through it.

 

[Red]

Peter doesn't idolize stark as a hero.. he idolizes his brains.. his intelligence.. peter has always idolized fellow scientists.. thats not a stretch at all

Of all heroes in the MU Peter idolizes Cap the most and thats why for me his quiping to him in CW3 seems OOC.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Of all heroes in the MU Peter idolizes Cap the most and thats why for me his quiping to him in CW3 seems OOC.

JJJ: "Hmph! Captain America would've kept his word."
Spidey: "Cap wouldn't have given his word. He would've found another way-a perfect solution! He's a legend, & I'm just a man!"
Do you know what story arc that's from?

 

[shinlyle]

JJJ: "Hmph! Captain America would've kept his word."
Spidey: "Cap wouldn't have given his word. He would've found another way-a perfect solution! He's a legend, & I'm just a man!"
Do you know what story arc that's from?

It's from ASM#363..."Carnage" part 3 of 3.

 

[shinlyle]

So basically whoever likes everything isn't as good of a comic book reader or a Spider-Man fan as you are. And how is it ignorant? The person just likes it. Period. If all a person wants to do is read stories with Spider-Man and have a little escapism fun with their favorite character, that's not ignorant. I think it's you who are being ignorant about other fans of the character and how they want to read their comics.

Yes, it is ignorant to just read a comic for the sake of reading a comic, not read into it at all, and refuse to think. That is actually the very definition of ignorance.

If you like it fine....but at least put some thought into it....jeez.

 

[Chris Wallace]

It's from ASM#363..."Carnage" part 3 of 3.

Quite. It was in reference to Spidey breaking his promise to let Venom go free once they'd subdued Carnage. And it is also the best example I could think of to support the claim that Spidey respects Cap above all other heroes.
Got any others?

 

[Mephistopheles]

Being Iron Man's *****.

 

[Chris Wallace]

So as it stands, "Unmasking" is in the lead w/"Behavior" not far behind.

 

[3dman27]

i concur

 

[SpideyInATree]

Yes, it is ignorant to just read a comic for the sake of reading a comic, not read into it at all, and refuse to think. That is actually the very definition of ignorance.

If you like it fine....but at least put some thought into it....jeez.

Maybe that poster is reading into it as well and enjoys it just the same. It's not ignorant either. You seem to really want it to be ignorant for some reason, as if to belittle that person to feel bad about how they read their comics.

Once again, we use such terms as "sidekick" not only because of the ridiculous costume, (which DOES make him look like a freakin' sidekick.) but what it represents; Peter no longer being his own man & making his own decisions. (Sidekicks don't get to do that.)

He did make his own decision. He could have told Tony that he didn't want the suit, but he decided to go with it because it has some advantages over a cloth suit.

He unmasked & has been kicking himself over it ever since.

Right, and to me that's part of the story. You haven't ever made a big decision in your life and after making it you're kicking yourself for making that decision? I've done things like that. I went to computer school right out of high school instead of following what was in my heart. And I was kicking myself over it and I still am to this day. So, I can seriously relate with that.

And Aunt May telling him to go through with it makes even less sense. She knows better than most how hated Spider-Man is by the general public. She's too old to think that people will reverse their positions just becuase they have a face to connect with the name. Plus, she herself has been kidnapped & put through hell not once, but twice, by ONE VILLAIN who knew who Spider-Man was. Her house was burned to the ground by another villain who just thought Peter had ratted him out to Spidey, forcing her to move into Avengers HQ.

Maybe it makes less sense to you. What I saw was an older, wiser lady stepping up and being there for her nephew, pretty much her son. I'm sure she does know the risk but she's supposed to constantly live in fear. "Oh my God, Peter, don't EVER take that mask off! Because all your bad, bad boy villains might kill Mary Jane and me!!"

Don't take offense to this but that's like American people not wanting to fly in airplanes after what happened on 9/11. Everytime people step on an airplane they are taking a huge risk in their lives that some crazed terrorist might blow them up or use the plane as a weapon. The fear is always there, but people continue to do it because the only way to fight back is to show there is no fear. THAT is what Aunt May was trying to do for Peter.

As I've said, regardless if he took the mask off or not, MJ and Aunt May are constantly in danger anyway.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Okay-not the same thing. Flying in a plane may or may not be dangerous. But since none of us were ever ON an airplane that was hijacked, the fear of such is rather irrational. More plaves reach their destination safely than crash or get hijacked, so statistically you're safer than not. May was ON the plane that got hijacked. She has been personally victimized by Peter's enemies. She knows first hand that they will cross that line & use his loved ones to hurt him. We have more villains using knowledge of Spider-Man's identity against him than not. Statistically it's not safe to be in the public eye. It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you.
And why, if the danger is always present, does it make sense to magnify it 1,000 fold? I'd rather have the risk of 5 or 6 people attacking my family than 5 or 6 thousand.

 

[Hobgoblin-demon]

Behavior

 

[SpideyInATree]

Okay-not the same thing. Flying in a plane may or may not be dangerous. But since none of us were ever ON an airplane that was hijacked, the fear of such is rather irrational. More plaves reach their destination safely than crash or get hijacked, so statistically you're safer than not. May was ON the plane that got hijacked. She has been personally victimized by Peter's enemies. She knows first hand that they will cross that line & use his loved ones to hurt him. We have more villains using knowledge of Spider-Man's identity against him than not. Statistically it's not safe to be in the public eye. It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you.
And why, if the danger is always present, does it make sense to magnify it 1,000 fold? I'd rather have the risk of 5 or 6 people attacking my family than 5 or 6 thousand.

Whether you've ACTUALLY experienced it or not doesn't mean that the fear is still there. You never know what can happen in this country at any moment, who is here, and who is doing what. So, just like Peter Parker, we just keep hiding behind our masks because the enemies might come crawling out to attack us? You're right. They will. And regardless if Peter Parker hides behind that mask or doesn't, the enemies will still be there. Whether us Americans and fellow allies who have felt the same attacks just hide away in our homes shows that the enemy will always be winning. And they will always attack when the time is right whether we're hiding or we're not.

And whether Peter Parker kept that mask on or not doesn't mean a villain could still scoop Aunt May up and do her in. Or Mary Jane. Or a student from the school he teaches. Or the Daily Bugle. All those places were involved in attacks by villains BEFORE he took the mask off. While he was hiding. It doesn't matter.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Of all heroes in the MU Peter idolizes Cap the most and thats why for me his quiping to him in CW3 seems OOC.

and he made up for it in the issue with the caravan... he has ut most respect for cap.. and still does

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Maybe that poster is reading into it as well and enjoys it just the same. It's not ignorant either. You seem to really want it to be ignorant for some reason, as if to belittle that person to feel bad about how they read their comics.



He did make his own decision. He could have told Tony that he didn't want the suit, but he decided to go with it because it has some advantages over a cloth suit.



Right, and to me that's part of the story. You haven't ever made a big decision in your life and after making it you're kicking yourself for making that decision? I've done things like that. I went to computer school right out of high school instead of following what was in my heart. And I was kicking myself over it and I still am to this day. So, I can seriously relate with that.



Maybe it makes less sense to you. What I saw was an older, wiser lady stepping up and being there for her nephew, pretty much her son. I'm sure she does know the risk but she's supposed to constantly live in fear. "Oh my God, Peter, don't EVER take that mask off! Because all your bad, bad boy villains might kill Mary Jane and me!!"

Don't take offense to this but that's like American people not wanting to fly in airplanes after what happened on 9/11. Everytime people step on an airplane they are taking a huge risk in their lives that some crazed terrorist might blow them up or use the plane as a weapon. The fear is always there, but people continue to do it because the only way to fight back is to show there is no fear. THAT is what Aunt May was trying to do for Peter.

As I've said, regardless if he took the mask off or not, MJ and Aunt May are constantly in danger anyway.

again.. perfect responses.. your my new hero

 

[Chris Wallace]

Whether you've ACTUALLY experienced it or not doesn't mean that the fear is still there. You never know what can happen in this country at any moment, who is here, and who is doing what. So, just like Peter Parker, we just keep hiding behind our masks because the enemies might come crawling out to attack us? You're right. They will. And regardless if Peter Parker hides behind that mask or doesn't, the enemies will still be there. Whether us Americans and fellow allies who have felt the same attacks just hide away in our homes shows that the enemy will always be winning. And they will always attack when the time is right whether we're hiding or we're not.

And whether Peter Parker kept that mask on or not doesn't mean a villain could still scoop Aunt May up and do her in. Or Mary Jane. Or a student from the school he teaches. Or the Daily Bugle. All those places were involved in attacks by villains BEFORE he took the mask off. While he was hiding. It doesn't matter.

But why increase the likelihood?

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Okay-not the same thing. Flying in a plane may or may not be dangerous. But since none of us were ever ON an airplane that was hijacked, the fear of such is rather irrational. More plaves reach their destination safely than crash or get hijacked, so statistically you're safer than not. May was ON the plane that got hijacked. She has been personally victimized by Peter's enemies. She knows first hand that they will cross that line & use his loved ones to hurt him. We have more villains using knowledge of Spider-Man's identity against him than not. Statistically it's not safe to be in the public eye. It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you.
And why, if the danger is always present, does it make sense to magnify it 1,000 fold? I'd rather have the risk of 5 or 6 people attacking my family than 5 or 6 thousand.

Aunt may and Mary Jane are imo the 2 strongest women in the marvel universe... they would NEVER put there own fears over what they believe is right... Aunt May and MJ are soooo proud of Peter.. and what hurts them more then anything is seeing him go unnoticed... esp when he saves the world every day. They know the risk's.. and there will always be risks.. but there not afraid of there lives.. they fear for peters.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

But why increase the likelihood?

Because MJ and May believe his work.. and his life should not go un noticed.. and he should get credit where credits due. If he spent his entire life behind a mask.... hiding they feel he will never get the respect he desserves.. aunt may explained this very well

 

[Chris Wallace]

Because MJ and May believe his work.. and his life should not go un noticed.. and he should get credit where credits due. If he spent his entire life behind a mask.... hiding they feel he will never get the respect he desserves.. aunt may explained this very well

Oh, yeah-like there's gonna be a monument to Spider-Man one day. And if there were, would it make him feel better if it cost the lives of Aunt May & MJ.
Not buying it. Sorry.