freemadison said:
Of course. In the analogy I used about my own personal problems. When I was in a "slump" it seemed out of the blue to people outside of myself, yet my problems were slowly building up and weren't non sequitur internally. You are correct that it's the writers job because he can create the internal perspective that we can only comment on. However, I feel that in MANY instances, the writers make attempts to do so, especially when you view broader continuity.
For example, when people complain about how Spidey is perceived as a rook in NA (which is very valid) they simply attribute it to bad writing.
But here's a quote from Millar's second issue on MK after he snapped at the pre-Disassembled Avengers.
"Mary Jane says I've got a really bad attitude when I'm around other super heroes, but how can I spill my guts to some guy that built a helmet so he could talk to ants.
The truth is that being around super jocks just makes me feel like I'm back in high school again and looking at everyone through thick glasses lenses.
Why am I only truly comfortable when I'm surrounding myself with Freaks?"
*cut to him beating up some of the Owl's goons*
That seems like proper characterization to me. Explains to a degree, his "newb"-ness. Yet at the same time, his acceptance of NA made perfect sense to me as well. There is very little reason for Peter to say no. Especially when he feels accepted (and wanted) by one of his idol's (Uncle Ben) idols.
You see that comment IMHO can only be made by a writer who
thinks he knows Spider-man but actually doesn't. Or perhaps a writer who
chooses to highlight a particular aspect of the character which
he likes, regardless of continuity. IOW, the writers are interpreting the character as
THEY see him rather than
as he is. This statement
seems to make sense because once upon a time PP was a geek who was intimidated by jocks. But Please understand that that was over a
LONG LONG time ago. Peter stopped being the nerd, a long time ago. In fact he became quite "hot" to girls, and certainly no longer intimidated by any bully. And I'm not just talking about childhood bullies/jocks, I'm talking about the equivalent of that in the super powered world. What do you think most of his enemies were if not bullies and jocks? The
true aspect of PP's character is that once he got his powers he
enjoyed giving back some of what he got. he liked to put the jocks in their place and kicked their asses to some extent. this was evident in his
first meeting with the Avengers, where he basically told them he was
unimpressed, said he had no interest in joining their group, and proceeded to
get into a fight with all of them. Given
THAT, and given the many years of history where SM fought alongside pretty much
EVERYONE, Mr. F, Ant man, Thor, the
Avengers, etc etc. and fought
against most of these same people, heroes
AND villains. The comment above simply makes no sense. NOT without some explanation. SM should
NEVER feel like a noob next to Luke Cage, or Spider-woman, because he was there when
THEY started in the game. when
THEY were noobs.
See above. Obviously some reasoning writers provide is faultier than others. But that's the way we are many times as well. Sometimes Peter's (the writer's) logic is very fallible and human but since it was written I can't pretend that Peter didn't make the decisions he did. Unmasking was a lapse of judgement, however, I didn't feel like it was out of character. If the casual fan knows that Peter's secret is important, then certainly the author of the flagship title knows this as well. As much as I think the unmasking is dumb, I can still see how it fits into his character.
well we can agree to disagree here. for me, because of SM's
particular history, his
particular issues with unmasking (which btw are
worst than
ANY other Marvel hero, except maybe DD), I needed more, much more. Heck PP should have been the poster boy for no unmasking.
Peter's never been in a situation like this before. Being on a team considered the "world's mightiest heroes", having his aunt privvy to his secret, befriending other heroes and living in the Avengers tower. That's new territory. We can't refer back to older stories and say he'd never reveal his identity because the aforementioned points weren't applicable.
I don't know how long you've been reading comics my friend but you can trust me that PP
HAS been in those situations before.
many times. befriending other heroes? did you know that SM was an official Avenger
prior to NA? No that is
NOT new territory, and writing him as such is a) disregard for continuity B) lack of knowledge of the character C) an I don't give a damn I'll do what I want attitude
And whether or not I can accept it as plausible (and I do), I can still sit back and enjoy reading these unmasking stories because I know that I want to see these stories told and that at some point it'll all be reversed at a whim. Nothing is ever permanent in comics and I embrace that.
I'm glad you can enjoy them because I can't. truly, I can't stand to see my hero be made a fool of. I just hope that at some time in the future some writer/editor doesn't decide to do a 180% with a character you come to
know and love.
I didn't say that I didn't think about it. I'm saying that now that some time has passed I am easily over it. Sweat off my nuts. Of course, initially I'm gonna react to change but then I embrace the change and use it to my advantage. If there's a small mischaracterization, I'll acknowledge it but most of the time I won't let it deter me from enjoying the story. That would be doing myself a disservice.
one again, the issue isn't whether or not we can accept change. We've accepted all kinds of changes in the past, 6 arm spidey, new costume, marriage, death of love of his life, and so on and so on. The issue is whether or not the change makes sense and is consistent with the character,..just like for
you. Because the change in your friend didn't make sense to you you
moved on. you dropped him and
got over him. you didn't accept the change anymore than we are, you moved on and got over it. Would you have reacted the same if he'd shared with you some personal trauma which explained the change? look,
WE are doing the same thing, we're moving on, except that we
can't because we love the character. would you have moved on so easily and gotten over it if it was your mom rather than some friend?
That's true, but clearly the the two moments that lead to an exodus of fans were the Clone Saga and Chapter One. Ever since those events, it's been a constant *****-fest from the fans. I think that many fans (akin to a whiny child with a whipped parent) now feel like they have more power and that Marvel will bend to their will. I also think that's why a lot of people hate JQ. He doesn't bend too often or easily. I don't like him much either but at least the MU has been kinda exciting lately. Although there are many problems with Spider-Man and many of the points made by fans are very valid, IMO I feel like Marvel is at least trying to go in the right direction. Whether you agree or not, Spidey hasn't been this interesting in YEARS.
are you sure you are correct with this assessment? Is it not possible that the fans' have been *****ing because the character has been
poorly handled since then. Is it possible we hate JQ because as editor in chief he is allowing the MU to be a mess more complicated than old DC? Or that he is raking our favorite hero over the coals? or the fact that there is no continuity and/or respect for the past in the MU? are you sure
those are not the reasons?
Well that's good and healthy. But if it's not for you, then why scream, moan, and insult others who disagree?
it never ceases to amaze me when people ask this question. The reason we scream and moan, and disagree and insult others is because we
care about the character. We love the character and hate the fact that he is being mistreated. wouldn't YOU moan and complain if someone was mistreating someone or something you loved? if your mom's change in behavior was due to a co-worker's treatment of her? that question makes no sense and makes me angry.
t:
).
