My guess on why the Venom storyline will suck.

[Spider-Fan]

I wish. I hope it all turns out well, but I am not convinced, to say the least.

 

[Spider-Bite]

And finally... there is no guarantee... everyone says they'd like to be back or whatever... you know they got a lot on their minds... not saying Tobey won't do it... but if there is another guy out there and Tobey is commanding the 25 million... it will be an awfully difficult decision for Sony.

I don't believe that Tobey will command the 25 million. By the time part 3 comes out he will be typecasted for one thing, which means he isn't worth as much. They know he needs work and they are the only place he can find it. He might ask for more, but if they reject him, he'll eventually take whatever they throw at him. I know a lot people who had trouble connecting to seabiscuit simply because all they could think about was spider-man when watching it.

Besides I read an interview with Maguire shortly after part 2 came out where he said he doesn't mind getting typecasted, and he wont ask for such a large amount that he gets replaced because he's already rich. He said he's a fan and he looks forward to showing his son how he was Spider-Man. He also used the words "If Raimi is there" when saying all of this. So it comes down to Raimi, and I think the deciding factor for him will be how much control they give him for these movies. If Venom is shoved down his throat or if he thinks he will be forced to do things he doesn't want to do, then I bet he will leave, because his exact words are "if I have the same hunger to tell a story I have now, just try and keep me away from it"

 

[RMThompson]

I don't want to see Venom, have him defeated, and then have him come back. That is repetative. At least Harry would be a new goblin and a different character. Two movies with the climax featuring the same villain is cheap. It isn't the perfect way to start him. I'd rather him be set up.

WOW. Two movies with the climax featuring the same villain is cheap? Yet, you'd rather have another Goblin-centric story? Strange.

Sure I know it would be another face behind the costume, but seriously, same powers, same suit, same everything... GG vs Spidey.

And besides, who said Venom had to be defeated. All I am saying that he needs to APPEAR in the movie, wreak some havok - etc etc... I dont need him to be defeated at *all*

You've said you'd rather see part of the Venom storyline now and then have him be a villain in the next movie, and I disagree. No point in seeing it unless it is a complete film all in its own.

You have to imagine that there IS no next movie... although there will be, each movie has to be a complete story.

Lets say for arguments sake, that we have no idea what Venom is and there might not be another Spider Man...

what would be BETTER?

If we see Venom, he is "born", fights Spidey, but Spider Man cannot defeat him, and Venom is set free into the world... we assume that he is out there somewhere and the Spidester will continue to fight them

OR

We see Peter catch a symbiote, and it turns him dark, and brooding... he eventually fights it off of him, beats up the Goblin again, and at the very end of the movie we see the costume attaching to Brock... we cannot assume anything about this character, and have no idea what Brock has become. We can GUESS, but nothing more.

I choose the first.

As a writer I try to keep a proper "payoff-per-investment" in the story. What that means is for a certain time invested in a character, we payoff the watcher/reader by completing the storyline of that character. The more time we spend investing, the better/bigger/longer the investment should be. Minor characters get a minor payoff, while larger ones get the biggest payoffs.

It's a give and take, and it's a simple rule of movie and/or story telling. Messing with that formula messes with the movie. Not enough payoff, and we are left wanting more, leaving a cliffhanger effect. This is sometimes used, but I think it's cheap. Not enough investment, and the we never care enough about the character, and the payoff is cheap/predictable/traditional. That is usually used in cheesy romantic comedies, where we dont really give a damn about the character, but in the end she gets the guy/job/promotion/cure for the disease she has...

It gets much deeper than that, but you know where I am headed... so I won't bore you with anymore. I will only agree to disagree here... and wish that we see a complete Venom storyline... even if its the first of many..

Watch out Spidey!

 

[Shadow Moses X]

Topher Grace as Venom is a good fit, who cares if hes skinny? hes a good actor period.

 

[GreenMamba]

If Venom is in this movie, I'd like to see a resolution similar to Peter and Venom's first fight in Ultimate--Eddie just disappears, leaving Peter to wonder if he killed him (even though we, the audience, know that he didn't, and Venom's still at large).

 

[Spider-Fan]

WOW. Two movies with the climax featuring the same villain is cheap? Yet, you'd rather have another Goblin-centric story? Strange.

Sure I know it would be another face behind the costume, but seriously, same powers, same suit, same everything... GG vs Spidey.

And besides, who said Venom had to be defeated. All I am saying that he needs to APPEAR in the movie, wreak some havok - etc etc... I dont need him to be defeated at *all*

You've said you'd rather see part of the Venom storyline now and then have him be a villain in the next movie, and I disagree. No point in seeing it unless it is a complete film all in its own.

You have to imagine that there IS no next movie... although there will be, each movie has to be a complete story.

Lets say for arguments sake, that we have no idea what Venom is and there might not be another Spider Man...

what would be BETTER?

If we see Venom, he is "born", fights Spidey, but Spider Man cannot defeat him, and Venom is set free into the world... we assume that he is out there somewhere and the Spidester will continue to fight them

OR

We see Peter catch a symbiote, and it turns him dark, and brooding... he eventually fights it off of him, beats up the Goblin again, and at the very end of the movie we see the costume attaching to Brock... we cannot assume anything about this character, and have no idea what Brock has become. We can GUESS, but nothing more.

I choose the first.

As a writer I try to keep a proper "payoff-per-investment" in the story. What that means is for a certain time invested in a character, we payoff the watcher/reader by completing the storyline of that character. The more time we spend investing, the better/bigger/longer the investment should be. Minor characters get a minor payoff, while larger ones get the biggest payoffs.

It's a give and take, and it's a simple rule of movie and/or story telling. Messing with that formula messes with the movie. Not enough payoff, and we are left wanting more, leaving a cliffhanger effect. This is sometimes used, but I think it's cheap. Not enough investment, and the we never care enough about the character, and the payoff is cheap/predictable/traditional. That is usually used in cheesy romantic comedies, where we dont really give a damn about the character, but in the end she gets the guy/job/promotion/cure for the disease she has...

It gets much deeper than that, but you know where I am headed... so I won't bore you with anymore. I will only agree to disagree here... and wish that we see a complete Venom storyline... even if its the first of many..

Watch out Spidey!

OMG! Are Elongated Man and Plastic Man the same character? No, they are not. But by your definition, they are cause they have the same powers.

POWERS DON'T MAKE A VILLAIN!!! Harry's character and motivations are not the same as Norman's, hence they are not the same villain. Do they wear the same costume? Yes, but only because Harry wants to continue his father's legcay. He is a whole different villain. Too many people try to point out this "shocking" revelation, but they don't understand what they are talking about.

Also, why do I have to imagine that there is no next movie? Unless the movie collapses, or hell freezes over, there will be. SM4 is when your box office would start to get hurt. Set up Venom, instant money for SM4. In fact, when Venom has more back story, PEOPLE WILL CARE MORE!!! There is more payoff. Plus, if you explain it all here, you can get to Venom in the SM4 quicker, rather than rushing him in SM3.

Am I the only one that doesn't want a piece of crap Venom? I mean seriously. You all want him now, but when you get him now, I guarantee most of you will say they should have waited. Wait, scratch that comment, since Raimi can't make a bad decision in the mind's eye of this board.

 

[RMThompson]

OMG! Are Elongated Man and Plastic Man the same character? No, they are not. But by your definition, they are cause they have the same powers.

POWERS DON'T MAKE A VILLAIN!!! Harry's character and motivations are not the same as Norman's, hence they are not the same villain. Do they wear the same costume? Yes, but only because Harry wants to continue his father's legcay. He is a whole different villain. Too many people try to point out this "shocking" revelation, but they don't understand what they are talking about.

Also, why do I have to imagine that there is no next movie? Unless the movie collapses, or hell freezes over, there will be. SM4 is when your box office would start to get hurt. Set up Venom, instant money for SM4. In fact, when Venom has more back story, PEOPLE WILL CARE MORE!!! There is more payoff. Plus, if you explain it all here, you can get to Venom in the SM4 quicker, rather than rushing him in SM3.

Am I the only one that doesn't want a piece of crap Venom? I mean seriously. You all want him now, but when you get him now, I guarantee most of you will say they should have waited. Wait, scratch that comment, since Raimi can't make a bad decision in the mind's eye of this board.

Ok, think of it this way... if Spider Man fought Elongated Man ONLY in Spider Man 1, and then Plastic Man in 2, and Reed Richards in 3, we would get BORED with the same thing.

Thats not to think that the Goblin storyline will suck this time around - I think it will be good, because of the other stories around it. You're the one who said this movie should focus on Goblin.

I too am concerned for a piece of crap Venom... VERY concerned, which is why I started this thread. I just have faith it will be good... and it has nothing to do with Raimi. I don't praise him.

 

[Spider-Fan]

You have Sandman for variety. Like I have been saying, GG2 for story, and Sandman for visuals. Perfect combo.

 

[Spider-Bite]

I think it's too early for Venom. he should come in 4. I think the studio would be better financially at the same time. Sandman would have the visuals to bring a huge audience for part 3. now you would normally expect BO sales to drop after the third one, but with Venom in the preview for part 4 that wouldn't happen, especially if 4 had vneom and carnage.

 

[tallsy_1]

Since we know that Daniel Gilles is going to be back, isn't it a safe bet that Wolf-man is going to be one of the (prolly minor) villains? (There were some hints in S2) And that Eddie Brock gets the symbiote from his space trip.

 

[Green Goblin 1964]

Since we know that Daniel Gilles is going to be back, isn't it a safe bet that Wolf-man is going to be one of the (prolly minor) villains? (There were some hints in S2) And that Eddie Brock gets the symbiote from his space trip.

Manwolf won't be in cause like you said he's a minor villain.

 

[Shadow Moses X]

I dont think its too early for Venom, what im banking on is that Venom continues on to Spiderman 4.. and im hoping for Carnage in 4, Carnage is too coo of a villan to leave out he could have major sucess on the big screen.

 

[Cmill216]

Since we know that Daniel Gilles is going to be back, isn't it a safe bet that Wolf-man is going to be one of the (prolly minor) villains? (There were some hints in S2) And that Eddie Brock gets the symbiote from his space trip.

Man-Wolf will never grace a Spider-Man film.

 

[Pagrebo]

Man-Wolf will never grace a Spider-Man film.

Unless, of course, Joel Schumacher gets handed the reins at some point

 

[Pagrebo]

You have Sandman for variety. Like I have been saying, GG2 for story, and Sandman for visuals. Perfect combo.

I like your thinking on this one!

 

[tallsy_1]

I understand that Man-Wolf is not a popular villain. But then why drop all those hints in S2, and bring back the character? Plus, it provides a segue into the Venom story.

 

[Cmill216]

I understand that Man-Wolf is not a popular villain. But then why drop all those hints in S2, and bring back the character? Plus, it provides a segue into the Venom story.

What hints?! Just the prescence of the John Jameson character? That means nothing.

Mark my words, and read them very very carefully:

Man-Wolf will never grace a Spider-Man film.

 

[tallsy_1]

The hints are that he wears the ruby, he makes an inhuman leap to protect MJ, and there's a shot with him and a full moon.

 

[Cmill216]

The hints are that he wears the ruby, he makes an inhuman leap to protect MJ, and there's a shot with him and a full moon.

Hints? I'd call those "homages".

 

[Abaddon]

not so much homages,but references.

 

[Cmill216]

not so much homages,but references.

Actually, yeah your right. Who the f*** pays "homage" to Man-Wolf?

 

[The Shape]

hey guys. i'm new here. i've been reading around here for a while now and finally decided to join and voice my opinions and such. here's something that's really bugging me:

THE VENOM TALK.
i mean, i like hearing about venom, but many of you have the idea that he will suck in this movie, or they're just gonna set him up for SM4. both of those statements are not true.

the truth is that this movie is focusing on the symbiote storyline, as we all know. which means that venom will appear in this movie. maybe towards the end for the final fight, but he's gonna be in it. we have all of the signs: the black suit, eddie brock, the church set -- what else do we need? it would be absolutely ridiculous set up venom's origin throughout the movie and then have venom him an appearance and then end the movie, leaving fans to wait for over 3 years before he has his screen time.

and as much you we can argue the topher's too thin, or venom will just be a lame double of spidey, the truth is that he's gonna kick ass. as distorted as the green goblins suit was in SMI, he still kicked major ass. by the time this movie comes around, we will all be supporters of the new venom and will be DYING to seem him in this movie. i already think they're moving in a great direction with the idea for this movie.

so here's the deal:
GG2, Sandman, Venom = the 3 villains for SM3.
and i cannot wait.