My Mom Made It For Me: The Superman Suit Thread

[TheScarecrow]

I want the Fleischer suit with no cape “S”. A great way to signal to the audience this is a different Superman.

 

[7heBoss]

you guys are blowing my mind right now with your no s talk. I thought we were all on the same page here.

Without the S, it is just a bed sheet, a blanket, a flag, or anything. But the S is what makes it Superman's Cape

 

[Daywalker89]

We have a fundamentally different view of Superman. I don't think he is, or should be, old-fashioned or uncool.

This, especially if we want " Superman " to be popular in the mainstream again.

 

[DeadlyWest]

This, especially if we want " Superman " to be popular in the mainstream again.

The way to make Superman "popular" in the mainstream is so genuinely simple.

You literally do not change a thing about him. And you write it well.

In this modern world, where everyone and their mother has to subvert the Superman stereotype and ask the totally unanswered question of "what would happen if the most powerful being in the universe was a sociopath?", Superman's existence asks the question of "what would happen if the most powerful being in the universe was simply a farm boy from Kansas who just wants to do the right thing?"

If done well, know what that sounds like to me?

It sounds pretty damn refreshing

The S on the back I'm pretty indifferent over, I'll admit. I think if doable they absolutely should, because I think that's a great way of setting this Superman apart from the others from a design standpoint seeing as that's not been done since Reeve. But when it comes to the grander topic of making Superman popular in the mainstream, I think that's all there is to it. Do not change a thing about him, as a character. And do it well.

 

[Alien Anal]

The way to make Superman "popular" in the mainstream is so genuinely simple.

You literally do not change a thing about him. And you write it well.

In this modern world, where everyone and their mother has to subvert the Superman stereotype and ask the totally unanswered question of "what would happen if the most powerful being in the universe was a sociopath?", Superman's existence asks the question of "what would happen if the most powerful being in the universe was simply a farm boy from Kansas who just wants to do the right thing?"

If done well, know what that sounds like to me?

It sounds pretty damn refreshing

The S on the back I'm pretty indifferent over, I'll admit. I think if doable they absolutely should, because I think that's a great way of setting this Superman apart from the others from a design standpoint seeing as that's not been done since Reeve. But when it comes to the grander topic of making Superman popular in the mainstream, I think that's all there is to it. Do not change a thing about him, as a character. And do it well.

I agree but people and my self will say that there has been many iterations of Supes where he did edgier or whatnot. It's always going to be hard to meet everyone's favourite Supes but I think yeh if they stick to the true ideal of Supes he should be a win. Superman and Lois are darn close so it can't be that hard hopefully.

 

[DeadlyWest]

I agree but people and my self will say that there has been many iterations of Supes where he did edgier or whatnot. It's always going to be hard to meet everyone's favourite Supes but I think yeh if they stick to the true ideal of Supes he should be a win. Superman and Lois are darn close so it can't be that hard hopefully.

Ultimately, all it comes down to I think is this

Superman shouldn't just make you believe a man could fly.

He makes you believe that same man could be kind.

Do that and you're already halfway there

 

[GreenKToo]

The superman in mos and following films felt very standoffish, almost like "I can't be bothered with the little things or the little people".
That's how snyder made me take him.

In this film, I want a happy, smiling, confident, but not an arrogant Superman.
No job should be too big or too small.

For example, an elderly couple ( in their early 80's ) car is broken down in the middle of nowhere, it's night.
They argue like older couples will.
He turns the key but all the engine does is turn over, but it doesn't start.

i told you to get a phone, etc the wife says.
Don't want or need one he replies.
You need one now she says.
( he rolls his eyes and mutters ) he tries the ignition again, nothing.

superman just happened to be flying over. He hears the car trying to start and hears the couple.
He swoops down to help, even tho it's a very minor emergency.
It's not even an emergency really, but it is to the couple.

The headlights are still on and they illuminate Superman as he gently glides down and lands in front of the car.

The couple stop arguing and look at each other.

Isn't that what's his name? the husband asks. Uh, batman isn't it ?

No ( she gives a gentle slap on his arm ) it's superman you old fool, she says.

Superman would even fly them in their car to the next closest town.
Hang on and buckle up he says.
What a nice man the wife says with a grin.

I can see the elderly lady even trying to pay superman for his trouble after he lands them at a garage.
He of course refuses.
She then insists on cooking a meal for him since he won't take her money. She won't take no for an answer.
Superman sheepishly agrees, not wanting to be rude.

We later see Superman at their home, no cameras, no crowds, just the three of them.
She brings plate after plate of her special recipes out to him.
Very good he says with a smile, and he means it.
She piles more on his plate.The husband laughs.
That's my superman.

 

[Nemeres]

I'm not against the cape S, I just realized I don't need it. The cape is good for silhouette, for flowing, for elegance. It doesn't need to be "branded" to have its effect.

But I'd rather have that than an S on the belt buckle, which is the lamest.

 

[C Prometheus]

Please mean what I think it means, please mean what I think it means, please mean what I think it means...

Seriously, the Max Fleischer Superman design is the absolute gold standard Superman look IMO. I'd be over the moon to see it in live action.

 

[justiceleaguer]

In short, I think the suit should look similar to this in terms of color and execution of the parts:



The red trunks and yellow belt should be there as they provide the suit color balance. The trunks are a similar "diamond" shape to the S symbol, and their red combined with the yellow belt with red belt loops balances the chest symbol amidst the blue shirt and plue pants surrounding them, anchored by the red cape at the top of the blue shirt, and the red boots at the bottom of the blue pants. The design is timeless because color balance - a good design - is timeless.



Those who claim an element of the suit is dated frankly miss the shot and have no idea what they're talking about; the Superman suit is an assortment of ideas from European culture fused into one, becoming a wholly new creation. It isn't imitating a certain style or fashion trend, it is its own completely new entity. (Also, athletic tights are worn by all manner of athletes to this day, including wrestlers, football players, bodybuilders, Olympic athletes, etc, why wouldn't Clark be inspired by these sports figures who wear form fitting outfits with symbols on them?)



Superman's creators truly got it right the first time, which is why the suit itself has remained the same since its inception, barring a few misfires from DC here and there, but true to character, Superman always overcomes these deconstructios and reconstitutes himself back into what he was always meant to be, sooner or later.



Sure, the shade of the colors have varied, along with the style and size of the S, the size and style of the cape, boots, trunks, belt, etc., but the fact is that the PARTS of the Supermam suit - shirt, pants, S shield symbol, trunks, belt, cape, boots - have been there since Superman's inception, for the bulk of his existence, only their execution has varied.

Thus, the movie suit should also have all of these essential parts, but executed properly!

For starters, the colors need to be right. The only costume in live action that has come close to getting the shade of blue right is the Dean Cain suit. Superman's blue should be royal blue, as it was in the Golden Age, the Byrne era, and the 90s.





As great as the Reeve suit is, the shade of blue was changed from royal blue to light blue because the royal blue blended in with the blue screen too much, thus, the colors of the Reeve suit have always been off.

The royal blue, crimson red, and bright yellow are a bold and masculine looking primary combination that can't be beat.
The shade of red needs to be actually red, and not a dull brownish red like the Superman Returns suit did.

They should lean into the yellow and make it a bright yellow, this contrasts with the boldness of the colors of the rest of the suit. They shouldn't dull the yellow or make it like a yellow-orange like some do. When the yellow is a bright yellow, it makes the colors pop even more. A good example of what I mean is the way the yellow was on the Justice League Unlimited suit.

The cape needs to go into the shirt the same way it did in the Reeve films or Dean Cain's Superman suit from episode 4 of season 1 of Lois & Clark and on.

The collar of the blue shirt also needs to be wide, like Dean Cain and Christopher Reeve's Superman suit, and not up close cropped around the neckline the way that Brandon Routh's Superman Returns suit was and Tyler Hoechlin's suits have all been. A boatneck neckline for the shirt is better than a cropped up close to the neck neckline or a stupid New 52 collar.

The length of the cape should be the same length that Curt Swan would typically draw it, which is around a little lower than knee level. All Star Superman did this in some panels, although the length varied in that series. Fleischer Superman and the original Bruce Timm animated series Superman also have good similar lengths. No more of this cape that is so long that it drapes on the ground nonsense from the snyderverse. Superman should be thought of as a man of action, visually, where the cape doesn't visually look like it impedes him.

Think the Disney Hercules with his cape, how he was a figure of constant movement and the cape accompanied him snugly but elegantly, not once did it look like his cape could be caught on something or get in the way of the action, visually, but it was still long enough to be dramatic. However, it is better to lean closer to a classic Captain Marvel/"Shazam" style cape length than a giant cloak that drapes on the floor, if one has to think in extremes!

The red trunks need to be similar to the style of trunks that wrestlers wear today. Not a G string, not a jock strap, not "boyshorts", not super low wasted, but they should look like actual athletic trunks, something a masculine athlete, a strongman of action/wrestler would wear.

The belt needs to be yellow and around 2 inches for the width, it is better that the belt be wider than super thin. The belt buckle must be a yellow ellipse shaped absolutely NO S ON THE BELT! WB has tried to put an "S" on the Superman belt in nearly every live action version going back to even the first Christopher Reeve film, but when Reeve visited the DC Comics offices and saw that Superman's costume had no "S" on the belt buckle in the comic pages, he insisted that production change the belt to reflect the comic book look, they acquiesced, which is why there was no "S" on the belt in the movie, thankfully.

The boots should be the same shade of red in the S symbol and other red ares of the suit, with an "M" for "man" design on them around the top (to match the "S" for "super" curl in the hair, which should be combed back and to the left slightly as to form the "S", not to the right, like Routh did, but more on this later). They should be the same length as the Fleischer/Bruce Timm boots. Not knee-high.

Finally, the S symbol needs to be the size and style that John Byrne drew it. Or, Alex Ross. A bigger S is preferable to a tiny one.

The S should also absolutely be an S that stands for Superman this time, created by Clark, and not a weird alien glyph that happens to resembles an S coincidentally that was the symbol of an alien civilization. In fact, if the movie follows the original comics/Byrne era, Superman shouldn't even know he is an alien until years into his adult career as Superman, well after the costumed persona and mild mannered reporter disguise are created. When Clark found out the truth about his origins, it served just as the explanation for his abilities to him, nothing more, which is all being an alien is to Superman.






Over-emphasizing the alien aspect is what made Superman boring in the Snyder films as it dehumanizes him; the truth is that all of his morality, his worldview, the will to be Superman, the costume design, the name, and the S, are all creations of Clark Kent, a guy from Smallville with superpowers. He may be unsure of why he has them, but what matters is what he has purposed to do with them, which is to be Superman.

Superman's hair should go back and to the left, shorter on the sides than on the top. It needs to go to the left in order to make the "S" for "super" curl.

 

[justiceleaguer]

As for the origin of the costume, all of it should absolutely be Clark's design. As Clark has used his powers to help people while trying to stay under the radar, eventually he helps out with something which attracts more attention than usual, where clear pictures are almost taken of him. He's dubbed "Superman" by the media (SuperMAN, not SuperALIEN!). So he creates a public performing persona with the same name, and designs an "S" for "SUPERMAN".

NO MORE OF THIS ALIEN GLYPH STUFF, where it is a weird alien symbol that coincidentally resembles an earth letter "S". That's so ultra contrived and coincidental and requires an additional layer of explanation for why Clark would even wear a symbol for a civilization he has no connection to.

The motivation for being Superman (and creating the mild mannered reporter disguise AFTER he creates the Superman identity, so there should be no glasses on Clark until then), all comes from being Clark Kent (even in versions where the Kents die before Clark moves to Metropolis (I prefer them both alive).




Only the powers are made possible by being from Krypton. All Jor El and Lara wanted was for their baby to be safe as they sent him off in an experimental ship in an emergency. And while Jor El and Lara may have been benevolent people, the well being of some other planet, galaxies away, and it "needing a savior", should be the last thing on their mind as they scramble to save their child from their entire planet exploding, the idea of "being a superhero" coming from Krypton planned out by Jor El has never made sense and in fact undermines the urgency of the emergency, and the S coming from Krypton only started in the Reeve film because Marlon Brando wanted to wear it.

Instead of making Superman this predestined messianic figure beyond his will, it is time to make Superman the entire creation of Clark Kent again, where we see insights into his motivation, and his drive to be good, where Superman is a manifest expression of that. That is much more character driven than just doing the predestined thing that an A.I. ghost told him to do.

As for the materials for the suit itself, it should all be a product of Clark's creation.

Personally, I prefer the Golden Age version, where Clark creates the suit, symbol, etc., but has chemically treated the suit so it is durable and keeps up with the wear and tear he may put it through in his adventures.



I would combine that with the John Byrne explanation of the aura around his body being able to cover form-fitting clothes, which would make that part of the costume almost as durable as he is. The cape, since it isn't covered by the aura obviously, would be durable because of the chemical treatment Superman made up for it, although it wouldn't be as durable as the suit directly on him, and neither the cape or the suit should be as durable as Superman, obviously (because then anyone could wear it and be almost as impervious as Superman with it).

But if they're not going to do the Golden Age version, I'm okay with the Byrne version, where the suit is still created by Clark, but is not chemically treated, and only the tights are protected by the aura around his body, while the cape gets damaged, but regardless, the suit & S should still all be created/designed by Clark (with maybe soke help from the Kents).





Finally, the closest thing I'd do to making any of the suit come from Krypton, would be the Silver Age version. In the Silver Age, Clark still created the costume, the S design, the Superman name, etc., but the suit was made from the baby blankets he was sent to earth in, unraveled thread by thread, and reassembled into his costume as an adult. The boots are made from the upholstery remains of the rocket he was sent to earth in as a baby, and the belt is the seat belt of the spaceship. While it is still too coincidental that the colors of the kryptonian blankets are the exact same as the Superman suit (although they could always dye the material, perhaps Clark's chemical treatment could just be dying the suit the colors he wants in this version?), it serves as an explanation for why the costume is as durable as Superman (or almost as durable as he is).





As for the S on the back of the cape, I'd prefer it, but can take or leave it. If the cape is just the blanket from Krypton, it shouldn't have an "S" on it. However, if Clark creates all of the costume, including the cape, then it can have an S on it. Personally, I've always thought it would look best to have a borderless S with just the negative yellow parts of the S on the back of the cape, that way it truly does look like the same symbol on the front as on the back (like the George Reeves Superman suit's cape, and the cape in the Dean Cain Lois & Clark TV show's end credits).



Anyway thanks to anyone who read, I'm curious to know your thoughts.

 

[Monochron]

 

[justiceleaguer]

Now do this but with the red trunks & yellow belt (and no blue outline around the inside of the cape against the neck).

 

[flickchick85]

Y'all Max Fleisher suit fans had your moment in the first episode of Superman and Lois! My yellow S has yet to be refunded to me.

This pic is driving me toward Team Trunks lol.

 

[Boom]

This pic is driving me toward Team Trunks lol.

If nothing else the trunks will help differentiate from Cavill and Hoechlin.

But also they just look better.

 

[Sawyer]

I wouldn’t mind Gunn taking some cues from Fleischer, but I wouldn’t go for a full homage. After Superman and Lois already did it, it would just look like playing copycat.

 

[Boom]

 

[SupermansPal]

After Superman and Lois already did it, it would just look like playing copycat.

Frankly, I don't think enough people watch or care about S&L for it to make much a difference for Gunn if he wants to do the Fleischer suit, and S&L's main suit is pretty similar to the DCEU's as well.

 

[DorkyFresh]

In short, I think the suit should look similar to this in terms of color and execution of the parts:

View attachment 66245

The red trunks and yellow belt should be there as they provide the suit color balance. The trunks are a similar "diamond" shape to the S symbol, and their red combined with the yellow belt with red belt loops balances the chest symbol amidst the blue shirt and plue pants surrounding them, anchored by the red cape at the top of the blue shirt, and the red boots at the bottom of the blue pants. The design is timeless because color balance - a good design - is timeless.

View attachment 66246

Those who claim an element of the suit is dated frankly miss the shot and have no idea what they're talking about; the Superman suit is an assortment of ideas from European culture fused into one, becoming a wholly new creation. It isn't imitating a certain style or fashion trend, it is its own completely new entity. (Also, athletic tights are worn by all manner of athletes to this day, including wrestlers, football players, bodybuilders, Olympic athletes, etc, why wouldn't Clark be inspired by these sports figures who wear form fitting outfits with symbols on them?)

View attachment 66247

Superman's creators truly got it right the first time, which is why the suit itself has remained the same since its inception, barring a few misfires from DC here and there, but true to character, Superman always overcomes these deconstructios and reconstitutes himself back into what he was always meant to be, sooner or later.

View attachment 66249

Sure, the shade of the colors have varied, along with the style and size of the S, the size and style of the cape, boots, trunks, belt, etc., but the fact is that the PARTS of the Supermam suit - shirt, pants, S shield symbol, trunks, belt, cape, boots - have been there since Superman's inception, for the bulk of his existence, only their execution has varied.

Thus, the movie suit should also have all of these essential parts, but executed properly!

For starters, the colors need to be right. The only costume in live action that has come close to getting the shade of blue right is the Dean Cain suit. Superman's blue should be royal blue, as it was in the Golden Age, the Byrne era, and the 90s.

View attachment 66250

View attachment 66251

As great as the Reeve suit is, the shade of blue was changed from royal blue to light blue because the royal blue blended in with the blue screen too much, thus, the colors of the Reeve suit have always been off.

The royal blue, crimson red, and bright yellow are a bold and masculine looking primary combination that can't be beat.
The shade of red needs to be actually red, and not a dull brownish red like the Superman Returns suit did.

They should lean into the yellow and make it a bright yellow, this contrasts with the boldness of the colors of the rest of the suit. They shouldn't dull the yellow or make it like a yellow-orange like some do. When the yellow is a bright yellow, it makes the colors pop even more. A good example of what I mean is the way the yellow was on the Justice League Unlimited suit.

The cape needs to go into the shirt the same way it did in the Reeve films or Dean Cain's Superman suit from episode 4 of season 1 of Lois & Clark and on.

The collar of the blue shirt also needs to be wide, like Dean Cain and Christopher Reeve's Superman suit, and not up close cropped around the neckline the way that Brandon Routh's Superman Returns suit was and Tyler Hoechlin's suits have all been. A boatneck neckline for the shirt is better than a cropped up close to the neck neckline or a stupid New 52 collar.

The length of the cape should be the same length that Curt Swan would typically draw it, which is around a little lower than knee level. All Star Superman did this in some panels, although the length varied in that series. Fleischer Superman and the original Bruce Timm animated series Superman also have good similar lengths. No more of this cape that is so long that it drapes on the ground nonsense from the snyderverse. Superman should be thought of as a man of action, visually, where the cape doesn't visually look like it impedes him.

Think the Disney Hercules with his cape, how he was a figure of constant movement and the cape accompanied him snugly but elegantly, not once did it look like his cape could be caught on something or get in the way of the action, visually, but it was still long enough to be dramatic. However, it is better to lean closer to a classic Captain Marvel/"Shazam" style cape length than a giant cloak that drapes on the floor, if one has to think in extremes!

The red trunks need to be similar to the style of trunks that wrestlers wear today. Not a G string, not a jock strap, not "boyshorts", not super low wasted, but they should look like actual athletic trunks, something a masculine athlete, a strongman of action/wrestler would wear.

The belt needs to be yellow and around 2 inches for the width, it is better that the belt be wider than super thin. The belt buckle must be a yellow ellipse shaped absolutely NO S ON THE BELT! WB has tried to put an "S" on the Superman belt in nearly every live action version going back to even the first Christopher Reeve film, but when Reeve visited the DC Comics offices and saw that Superman's costume had no "S" on the belt buckle in the comic pages, he insisted that production change the belt to reflect the comic book look, they acquiesced, which is why there was no "S" on the belt in the movie, thankfully.

The boots should be the same shade of red in the S symbol and other red ares of the suit, with an "M" for "man" design on them around the top (to match the "S" for "super" curl in the hair, which should be combed back and to the left slightly as to form the "S", not to the right, like Routh did, but more on this later). They should be the same length as the Fleischer/Bruce Timm boots. Not knee-high.

Finally, the S symbol needs to be the size and style that John Byrne drew it. Or, Alex Ross. A bigger S is preferable to a tiny one.

The S should also absolutely be an S that stands for Superman this time, created by Clark, and not a weird alien glyph that happens to resembles an S coincidentally that was the symbol of an alien civilization. In fact, if the movie follows the original comics/Byrne era, Superman shouldn't even know he is an alien until years into his adult career as Superman, well after the costumed persona and mild mannered reporter disguise are created. When Clark found out the truth about his origins, it served just as the explanation for his abilities to him, nothing more, which is all being an alien is to Superman.

View attachment 66252
View attachment 66255
View attachment 66253
View attachment 66254

Over-emphasizing the alien aspect is what made Superman boring in the Snyder films as it dehumanizes him; the truth is that all of his morality, his worldview, the will to be Superman, the costume design, the name, and the S, are all creations of Clark Kent, a guy from Smallville with superpowers. He may be unsure of why he has them, but what matters is what he has purposed to do with them, which is to be Superman.

Superman's hair should go back and to the left, shorter on the sides than on the top. It needs to go to the left in order to make the "S" for "super" curl.

I wish someone could have James Gunn read your posts! Extremely informative. I don't think I disagree with a single thing. Kudos!

 

[BrollySupersj]

This works for me.

Also, the S designs being Ma and Pa Kents work is absolutely what I always prefer. I never liked the emblem being a Kryptonian symbol. Keep it close to home.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I always preferred it being from his home. So he can represent both worlds. I'd love if Martha made his proto suit with the Fleischer symbol as her attempt to recreate the symbol on his ship or blankets.

 

[Primal Slayer]

The way these fans incorporate the undies, I don't mind so much and feels more modern still.

 

[Superark]

View attachment 65995 If anyone has the means, maybe a shot of superman with different S sizes.
Use the Same logo just small to large.

This is the best I could find of a frontal shot.
Have at thee.

I would really love to see this version of the suit adapted on the screen.

 

[justiceleaguer]

I wish someone could have James Gunn read your posts! Extremely informative. I don't think I disagree with a single thing. Kudos!

Thank you for reading, my friend!

 

[Lily Adler]

Superman has a latex fetish.