Negativity towards the DC films? - Part 1

[Sleiek]

Let me repeat my earlier statement that I am surprised a movie which sucked could earn 872 million dollars.

 

[Erzengel]

Well Spider-Man 3 is the highest grossing Spider-Man focused movie at $890M.......

 

[Sleiek]

Oh I wasn't online that much during those days, were people whining about it as much as they do for BvS?

 

[MadVillainy]

Well Spider-Man 3 is the highest grossing Spider-Man focused movie at $890M.......

Twilight Breaking Dawn 2 made $829
Transformers ROTF made $836

I mean there are plenty of "bad" movies that make a lot of money

 

[Flint Marko]

And none of them suffered the astounding drops and poor legs that BvS did against zero competition.
If you had told people here in the months prior to release that BvS wouldn't touch 900 million they would've gone insane, but now we have people retroactively convinced that is a good number.

 

[Erzengel]

Oh I wasn't online that much during those days, were people whining about it as much as they do for BvS?

Nothing to do with that.

I think the general consensus is that Spider-Man 3 doesn't come close to the others. Raimi himself didn't love this film. But shouldn't he and the rest of us because the movie made $890M?

 

[Marvin]

^ it's an interesting point about how money actually means nothing on this matter, or at least can mean nothing. Yet depending on the particular agenda of the argument, you'll see this swing left or right across the spectrum. Every day folks trout numbers of their films(TF fans, even Dr Strange fans..), only for the next personal to reveal this point u just made.
Makes u wonder what the point is really.

It's Friday to Friday drop was like 85%. 85!

I don't really subscribe too deep into these kinds of things given how rarely circumstances match up. But 85% would actually be Deathly Hollows pt 2, a film I assume people enjoyed, I don't recall bvs hitting that but I do remember alot of their numbers being similar save for the internationals(a place dc has yet to consistently break out). And that doesn’t take into a account the debatable critical scores.

As far as it’s totals go, given the history of the entire franchise (batman/superman films) and the reboot status, it sits where it sits. You take this incoming spiderman for instance and all the things it has going for it(including featuring a billion dollar ironman). How are it’s projections compared to the heights of the other spiderman movies? Raimi man 1 did 403/820 without inflation and without 20 years of market expansion especially in china, or are people comparing it to the weaker ASM numbers? When it comes to success that is. Honest question I haven’t followed.

 

[Grommers]

^ it's an interesting point about how money actually means nothing on this matter, or at least can mean nothing. Yet depending on the particular agenda of the argument, you'll see this swing left or right across the spectrum. Every day folks trout numbers of their films(TF fans, even Dr Strange fans..), only for the next personal to reveal this point u just made.
Makes u wonder what the point is really.

I think this is what people who try to argue the numbers don't understand, they use the number when its in there favor, but not when its against there favor. I found it quite comical that when the same argument is used against marvel films, people defend it to the nines.

So there is a biased-behaviour whether most people want to act like they are or not, but the biased behaviour is an odd one, it's "Batman & Superman" are the creme de la creme, that they shouldn't do any wrong, and should be the quintessential super hero duo.

No other heroes are held in that regard though, so as a DC fan it's flattering to know that, and that people will be way more critical of the heroes for this reason alone. (Nobody is holding any other heroes to this expectation.)

I've come to realize through multiple posts, that is legitimately the issue people have with the movie, it didnt hit there absurdly high expectations for the two most iconic characters, and therefore a movie not on the level of say Nolans films is looked at as a "disappointment", yet prior to TDK a batman/superman movie making 900 million would have been looked at as a massive success.

In some ways I appreciate the criticism people give it, because it means they'll push for 10/10's which after seeing WW they are aiming for, and in the long run DCEU's films will be much higher quality than Marvel's rinse & repeat method, and I think thats what most people don't understand when they say "blah blah blah is better."

Wait till you get a true 10/10 marvel film, I was personally hoping it was going to be Civil War, but sounds like its still a ways a way, not to mention a re-boot, imagine a Captain America that completely outshines Chris Evans, that's essentially what happened with TDK to Batman 89', a Batman 89' was considered good for its time, great, but now the bar has been set so high that if a Batman 89' came out now, it would be upsetting for fans.

 

[Flint Marko]

I've come to realize through multiple posts, that is legitimately the issue people have with the movie, it didnt hit there absurdly high expectations for the two most iconic characters, and therefore a movie not on the level of say Nolans films is looked at as a "disappointment", yet prior to TDK a batman/superman movie making 900 million would have been looked at as a massive success.

This is incorrect and reductive of the numerous valid criticisms in which BvS failed as a film on its own merits in a way that few modern superhero movies have failed. There's no "bias" at play when talking about the numbers, not hitting 900 million is objectively disappointing to the point where the studio has taken measures to assure the fans that they're going in a different direction.

It's these sort of arguments that confound me and show an inability to grasp the concept that most people just don't share your opinion. There's no need to make excuses for it or attribute it to some phantom bias/conspiracy. I'm certain there are people out there who would hate a dark Superman movie or a Batman who kills simply on principal even if it's in an amazing movie, but the overwhelming majority of critics could (and have) tell you in depth why it is not an amazing movie. The characters are thin and often written to act stupid only to service the plot, a plot that is both generic and convoluted at the same time. The editing is so bad, with scenes that hardly ever seem longer than a minute or so unless it's an action sequence, that they actually spoke in interviews about how parts of the movie suffered from cutting the running time. The action is uninspired, and the entire movie looks like it was shot through a filter of urine and cigarette butts. I could seriously keep going, but you get the point. Im not interested in hearing your rebuttal about why you disagree or why you think other superhero movies are bad, I'm just showing you how easy it is to pick apart this movie in ways that have nothing to do with whatever excuses you and others have come up with to justify the poor reception of a movie you like.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

It's Friday to Friday drop was like 85%. 85!

It had a US opening weekend of 170 million... And finished with 320 million. What else does this data suggest?

Genuinely curious, what do think the really good home sales for BvS suggest?

 

[Grommers]

This is incorrect and reductive of the numerous valid criticisms in which BvS failed as a film on its own merits in a way that few modern superhero movies have failed. There's no "bias" at play when talking about the numbers, not hitting 900 million is objectively disappointing to the point where the studio has taken measures to assure the fans that they're going in a different direction.

It's these sort of arguments that confound me and show an inability to grasp the concept that most people just don't share your opinion. There's no need to make excuses for it or attribute it to some phantom bias/conspiracy. I'm certain there are people out there who would hate a dark Superman movie or a Batman who kills simply on principal even if it's in an amazing movie, but the overwhelming majority of critics could (and have) tell you in depth why it is not an amazing movie. The characters are thin and often written to act stupid only to service the plot, a plot that is both generic and convoluted at the same time. The editing is so bad, with scenes that hardly ever seem longer than a minute or so unless it's an action sequence, that they actually spoke in interviews about how parts of the movie suffered from cutting the running time. The action is uninspired, and the entire movie looks like it was shot through a filter of urine and cigarette butts. I could seriously keep going, but you get the point. Im not interested in hearing your rebuttal about why you disagree or why you think other superhero movies are bad, I'm just showing you how easy it is to pick apart this movie in ways that have nothing to do with whatever excuses you and others have come up with to justify the poor reception of a movie you like.

Incorrect - a B vs S movie that got "terrible" reviews, still out beats "guardians of the galaxy 2" who got great reviews...oh wait "because batman" on top of that, Guardians had a much better release date.

 

[Zarex]

Genuinely curious, what do think the really good home sales for BvS suggest?

Oooh, oooh, I know this one. The Ultimate Edition came with an R rating and the hope of fixing the disappointing theatrical release.

Incorrect - a B vs S movie that got "terrible" reviews, still out beats "guardians of the galaxy 2" who got great reviews...oh wait "because batman" on top of that, Guardians had a much better release date.

So what's the point here? That people were more jacked and pumped to see the first onscreen meeting between two iconic superheroes that had been popular for a combined century and a half than they were for a Guardians sequel? The difference is the BvS BO cratered after opening week and a large percentage of fans went home disappointed. Or in my case, angry.

But why dwell on the past? I haven't heard a single negative word about Wondy, the guy who wrote and directed the Avengers film is finishing up JL, and everything we're being shown for James Wan's Aquaman looks lovely. The DCEU is on an upward swing and its silly to spend time going back and forth on the dreadful films from which they are moving away.

 

[Patchwork Man]

Twilight Breaking Dawn 2 made $829
Transformers ROTF made $836

I mean there are plenty of "bad" movies that make a lot of money

Certainly. Guardians of the Galaxy 2 has earned roughly $750 million. It still hasn't made as much as its predecessor and enjoyed its first two weeks without any competition. And last week, it still made more than Alien: Covenant, which has been hit hard by WoM and a general lack of interest in a tired franchise.

 

[Erzengel]

Wait GOTG2 is considered bad?

 

[Zarex]

Certainly. Guardians of the Galaxy 2 has earned roughly $750 million. It still hasn't made as much as its predecessor and enjoyed its first two weeks without any competition. And last week, it still made more than Alien: Covenant, which has been hit hard by WoM and a general lack of interest in a tired franchise.

Its hard to see a huge increase at the BO when the first film does as well as the first Guardians did. But it got good reviews, will see an increase from its predecessor, the gang is showing up in Infinity War, and the confirmed third film will likely see a bump due to that. Saul Goodman.

 

[Patchwork Man]

Wait GOTG2 is considered bad?

Personally, I think it's a chrome-plated turd.

 

[Grommers]

So what's the point here? That people were more jacked and pumped to see the first onscreen meeting between two iconic superheroes that had been popular for a combined century and a half than they were for a Guardians sequel? The difference is the BvS BO cratered after opening week and a large percentage of fans went home disappointed. Or in my case, angry.

Yes - that is exactly my point, that the expectations were much higher. Thank you for supporting my argument.

 

[Patchwork Man]

Its hard to see a huge increase at the BO when the first film does as well as the first Guardians did. But it got good reviews, will see an increase from its predecessor, the gang is showing up in Infinity War, and the confirmed third film will likely see a bump due to that. Saul Goodman.

The first movie had no competition for a month. It's a legit space opera adventure, wonderfully lensed, and, for the most part, tightly scripted. The sequel falls short of its predecessor in every area, all the way down to the score. But many people think Vol. 2 is a better movie, which I find perplexing.

 

[Zarex]

Yes - that is exactly my point, that the expectations were much higher. Thank you for supporting my argument.

I'd say "You're welcome!" but I'm still not certain what point you are making. If you are saying that BvS was poorly reviewed largely because it didn't meet lofty expectation, lets agree to disagree. I think most fans would have been quite satisfied with a competently made flick, and BvS didn't even hit that low bar.

 

[Zarex]

The first movie had no competition for a month. It's a legit space opera adventure, wonderfully lensed, and, for the most part, tightly scripted. The sequel falls short of its predecessor in every area, all the way down to the score. But many people think Vol. 2 is a better movie, which I find perplexing.

The movie will increase the BO from the first, the characters will be in a huge team up film next year, there is a frikkin ride opening in Disneyland today and we'll be probably getting one in Epcot in Orlando in a few years. There will be a new Guardians film in around 2020 and very likely many more after that. Any concerns about the health of the franchise is nothing more than immature fanboy di** measuring.

I thought Vol 2 was the better film, and allow me to attempt to de-perplex you (?). With intros out of the way, the Guardians actually felt like a family/team from the start, which I enjoyed. The opening "Dancing Groot" scene to Mr. Blue Sky was brilliant and put a smile on my face that re-emerged as soon as I stepped out into daylight. The villains, especially Mr. Russell were terrific - even Taser (hehee) face. The designs of the planets, buildings, ships and aliens were all gorgeous,a and sorcerer snake guy is my new favorite character.

Yondu and Rocket were beautiful together, Drax was hilarious, and I loved Gamora's relationship with Nebula and Peter's with Ego. I enjoyed the first one an awful lot, but I immediately wanted to see Volume 2 after having left the film. It's one of my all-time favorite Marvel flicks.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

Let me repeat my earlier statement that I am surprised a movie which sucked could earn 872 million dollars.

It was a movie that had Batman and Superman and Wonder Woman in it.
Of course it was going to make a lot of money the first week-end. No
rational person thought it wouldn't make a lot of money the first week-end.
Where the suck part comes in is how little it made in the following weeks.
Suicide Squad made a lot of its money in the following weeks and
ended up making almost as much money. A movie with C and D list villains
and no plot at all. BvS should have made well over a billion if it didn't suck.

 

[StormC]

Incorrect - a B vs S movie that got "terrible" reviews

Dude... you don't have to use quotation marks. It got 28% on Rotten Tomatoes. That is terrible no matter how you slice it.

 

[Erzengel]

GOTG2 will surpass GOTG1 domestically and ww by the end of this weekend.

 

[Patchwork Man]

I thought Vol 2 was the better film, and allow me to attempt to de-perplex you (?). With intros out of the way, the Guardians actually felt like a family/team from the start, which I enjoyed. The opening "Dancing Groot" scene to Mr. Blue Sky was brilliant and put a smile on my face that re-emerged as soon as I stepped out into daylight. The villains, especially Mr. Russell were terrific - even Taser (hehee) face. The designs of the planets, buildings, ships and aliens were all gorgeous,a and sorcerer snake guy is my new favorite character.

Yondu and Rocket were beautiful together, Drax was hilarious, and I loved Gamora's relationship with Nebula and Peter's with Ego. I enjoyed the first one an awful lot, but I immediately wanted to see Volume 2 after having left the film. It's one of my all-time favorite Marvel flicks.

I didn't like it. We'll leave it at that. Enjoy.

 

[The Batman]

GOTG2 will surpass GOTG1 domestically and ww by the end of this weekend.

I know, right?

The movies only been out for three weeks, yet people want to act like its finished its run already.