Negativity towards the DC films? - Part 1

[Ivan Drago]

Personally, I think it's a chrome-plated turd.

Sure, but that's your own opinion.

I didn't care for GOTG2 either and think it's one of the weaker MCU films, but there's no denying it was well received by audiences and critics.

 

[Flint Marko]

Incorrect - a B vs S movie that got "terrible" reviews, still out beats "guardians of the galaxy 2" who got great reviews...oh wait "because batman" on top of that, Guardians had a much better release date.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Why are we talking about Guardians?

 

[Patchwork Man]

Sure, but that's your own opinion.

Personally, I think it's a chrome-plated turd.

I didn't care for GOTG2 either and think it's one of the weaker MCU films, but there's no denying it was well received by audiences and critics.

But many people think Vol. 2 is a better movie, which I find perplexing.

^My remarks from the previous page.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

I think a part of why BVS had a rougher time connecting to audiences was simply the nature of its story. BVS is a definitely a dark story

You got a Batman who's at his lowest point and has lost faith in others. And a Superman that's dealing with the criticism of the world and even at one point gives up being Superman. Sure it ends on a note of hope, but it's only after Superman impales himself to kill Doomsday.

Also don't know about anyone else but I felt the first two thirds of BVS to be a little slow in terms of action pieces.

 

[Sleiek]

I completely agree with everything you just said. Just that I have a different reaction to it all I guess.

 

[MbJ]

Also don't know about anyone else but I felt the first two thirds of BVS to be a little slow in terms of action pieces.

The story is also very convoluted at times. I understand what Jeremy Irons said about it being overstuffed.

 

[TeeKay]

I think a part of why BVS had a rougher time connecting to audiences was simply the nature of its story. BVS is a definitely a dark story

You got a Batman who's at his lowest point and has lost faith in others. And a Superman that's dealing with the criticism of the world and even at one point gives up being Superman. Sure it ends on a note of hope, but it's only after Superman impales himself to kill Doomsday.

Also don't know about anyone else but I felt the first two thirds of BVS to be a little slow in terms of action pieces.

So was Logan, DofP, TDK, CW etc. Those connected with audiences just fine.

 

[Flint Marko]

Shhhh... those don't count for some reason

 

[Marvin]

It also has the same CinemaScore as such hit movies as Green Lantern and Catwoman.

Those scores can be misleading.

 

[MadVillainy]

So was Logan, DofP, TDK, CW etc. Those connected with audiences just fine.

Eh I wouldnt count CW but otherwise agree.

It's darker than most MCU fare but I dont think it deserves a mention among the others.

But you're point still stands. I thought after the Logan success we would dead the "critics don't like dark stories" crap

 

[Hammer!]

I do find it odd that DCEU apologists think the biggest critics of the films are Marvel fans. The vast, vast majority are disgruntled DC fans who are upset at the lackluster films, unrecognizable characterizations and uncertain future. Some DC first or only fans seem to be obsessed with Marvel movies, but I don't see Marvel first or only fans caring about DC enough to be overly positive or negative towards them; they're indifferent. Sure, They may poke fun or talk smack because the quality of the films themselves have been embarrassingly lopsided since 2011, but they genuinely don't seem like they care what they're doing on the other side of the aisle.

Maybe DC fans feel persecuted because the general audience is embracing Marvel characters noticeably more? Perhaps it stems from insecurity of being a perennial second place operation every year since the late 60's/early 70's? Just a dichotomy I've noticed for some time.

 

[Hammer!]

Those scores can be misleading.

Rotten Tomatoes they are pretty even as well. Catwoman is an absolute abortion of a motion picture, but GL and BvS pretty much had the same reception critically and commercially; pretty tough to argue otherwise.

Interesting how WB scrapped GL because of poor response, yet Suicide Squad and BvS had a nearly identical response, if not worse. Hindsight of course, but they might have just plowed through right after GL if they knew the following films would have the same amount of detractors anyways.

 

[Marvin]

@Hammer!
The first post is a tad on the passive aggressive side(must not look). That being said, I will say that ur generalizations aside, there are plenty of 'mcu first' fans that spend an absorbent amount of time talking dc, if not in those spaces, then in their own, it's a hot topic. First few weeks of film release in the dc forums last year were all sorts of fun. And it wasn't just 'dc fans'. That being said I suppose it goes both ways, but I don't like to generalize. Perhaps if people stopped with the negativity all around. Or perhaps ignored the films they were supposedly 'indifferent' about. Who knows.

As for why they scrapped GL but didn't scrap these recent one's. Perhaps because the reception wasn't the same. And that's not just the fact that one was a mega bomb and the others the opposite financially. Certainly would make all the people that have said they want it scrapped happy.
*I wasn't talking about RT.

But you're point still stands. I thought after the Logan success we would dead the "critics don't like dark stories" crap

over a hundred years of cinema and it's reception and people think critics don't like dark stories? Pretty sure the argument has always been that of dark story about superman or other characters known for otherwise. Not 'logan' or 'the crow' or some such.

That being said i was under the impression that cw was a bright, colorful, fun entry from the mcu. And those straight xmen films always have some xavier and fun and hopeful through line.

The real issue however is as follows. clearly critics don't have an issue with dark stories, even dark cbms stories(apparently). So when they are driven to exclaim that the darkness present in a particular story as a critical flaw. It's among other things, telling/problematic.

 

[Flint Marko]

Green Lantern lost them money. BvS came in below expectations and the studio was clearly disappointed with the return, but they ended up in the green. So no, the two projects weren't recieved the same commercially.

 

[Marvin]

"In the Black" more accurately.
And the film is still in it's home video run, as are many 2016 big ones.

 

[StormC]

That being said i was under the impression that cw was a bright, colorful, fun entry from the mcu. And those straight xmen films always have some xavier and fun and hopeful through line.

Okay wait I'm confused, have you seen Civil War or not? Because it seems like you're always on the defensive with the DCEU, almost obsessively so, whenever I see you post.

 

[Hammer!]

Green Lantern lost them money. BvS came in below expectations and the studio was clearly disappointed with the return, but they ended up in the green. So no, the two projects weren't recieved the same commercially.

Meant the two projects were met with a collective shrug of indifference, at best, not that they both were equally fiscally successful. My bad.

 

[Marvin]

Okay wait I'm confused, have you seen Civil War or not? Because it seems like you're always on the defensive with the DCEU, almost obsessively so, whenever I see you post.

I have.
why?
and yes i'm familiar with that narrative, meh.

 

[Hammer!]

Okay wait I'm confused, have you seen Civil War or not? Because it seems like you're always on the defensive with the DCEU, almost obsessively so, whenever I see you post.

That's what I was talking about with my previous posts. Marvel first or only fans really only talk obsessively about the DCEU to poke the bear and tease the quality of their films compared to the much more lauded catalogs of films in the MCU. I don't understand this, even when DC was putting out better content in the mid-2000's, Marvel fans largely didn't seem to care and would instead focus frustrations on the poor Marvel films they were getting, not blindly praising them as misunderstood touchstones that were actually superior to the first two Nolan Bat-films. I suppose the inferiority and persecution complex many DCEU fans have may just be lost on me. I would think the more productive approach would be to use all that energy to demand quality products from the DC/WB film division.

 

[Superchan]

Let me repeat my earlier statement that I am surprised a movie which sucked could earn 872 million dollars.

Pirates 2,3 and 4; Transformers 2,3 and 4; Alice in the wonderland all did considerably better while Spiderman 3 (back in 2007 minus the 3d and china and market expansions) and the secret life of pets all did better than a movie that unites superman and batman for the first time onscreen.
Heck even Suicide squad, which didn't have the benefit of a chinese release performed more impressively than BvS in international markets and in subsequent weeks in the domestic market, so stop throwing the 872 million figure like it's something impressive because it's not, not for the studio that had to scramble to make considerable changes and publicly announce massive tonal shifts to their shared universe just to wash the stink of their under-performing (supposed) billion dollar tentpole.

 

[Sleiek]

Unrecognizable characterizations?

Please enlighten me with examples of other superhero movies where the hero comforts a little kid like Batman does above? I seriously doubt we have that many.

Pirates 2,3 and 4; Transformers 2,3 and 4; Alice in the wonderland all did considerably better while Spiderman 3 (back in 2007 minus the 3d and china and market expansions) and the secret life of pets all did better than a movie that unites superman and batman for the first time onscreen.
Heck even Suicide squad, which didn't have the benefit of a chinese release performed more impressively than BvS in international markets and in subsequent weeks in the domestic market, so stop throwing the 872 million figure like it's something impressive because it's not, not for the studio that had to scramble to make considerable changes and publicly announce massive tonal shifts to their shared universe just to wash the stink of their under-performing (supposed) billion dollar tentpole.

I will throw 872 millions around all I like. It didn't reach expectations, every knows that, but it is still a good figure no matter how hard you try to convince otherwise. Did the movie flop? Probably in some people's dreams.

Oh and Pirates and Transformers gave audience what they want, they had fun. That's all that matters.

 

[Boy Scout]

Pirates 2,3 and 4; Transformers 2,3 and 4; Alice in the wonderland all did considerably better while Spiderman 3 (back in 2007 minus the 3d and china and market expansions) and the secret life of pets all did better than a movie that unites superman and batman for the first time onscreen.
Heck even Suicide squad, which didn't have the benefit of a chinese release performed more impressively than BvS in international markets and in subsequent weeks in the domestic market, so stop throwing the 872 million figure like it's something impressive because it's not, not for the studio that had to scramble to make considerable changes and publicly announce massive tonal shifts to their shared universe just to wash the stink of their under-performing (supposed) billion dollar tentpole.

That part at the end is what really gets me. If the studio was happy with the way things had turned out, would they be going out of their way to tell us that things were gonna be changing?

 

[Marvin]

That's what I was talking about with my previous posts. Marvel first or only fans really only talk obsessively about the DCEU to poke the bear and tease the quality of their films compared to the much more lauded catalogs of films in the MCU. I don't understand this, even when DC was putting out better content in the mid-2000's, Marvel fans largely didn't seem to care and would instead focus frustrations on the poor Marvel films they were getting, not blindly praising them as misunderstood touchstones that were actually superior to the first two Nolan Bat-films. I suppose the inferiority and persecution complex many DCEU fans have may just be lost on me. I would think the more productive approach would be to use all that energy to demand quality products from the DC/WB film division.

There u go again. It's pretty grating.
People defend what they love, it's art. No one is arguing 2+2=6. All of this is subjective. And really you have no idea what the millions of marvel or dc fans where doing during those respective times, rather you can't account for even a portion of them all, your generalizations are at best, reductive and or limited to your own experience..online. Fans love all sorts of films during those times whether or not they were as 'good' as nolans "first two". Still i see your point, if people here stopped blindly defending films they like or love and just trolled, *****ed or 'teased' said films, then maybe the studio would notice and then make oscar winning movies out of this stuff. Nothing short of a true cinematic quality.

Secondly, I personally refrain from spending any time bringing down films I know people on this fan site like or love. I know the studio isn't monitoring me so I can't actually 'help' the production with my 'productive complaints'. I come here(rarely now) to talk positively about movies/tv or not at all. That includes defending the things I like about them or things i feel misunderstood. As well as hyperbole, for the sake of productivity. If people want to see me pointlessly criticize a film, even ones I hate, they're out of luck and a several years too late. There is no film other than maybe T2 that I don't have several issues with, but I digress. If folks want to see me not obsessively defend films, just count the amount of posts I 'obsessively' ignore, it's alot. Usually that means I don't care or i agree with them. The reality is if I did spend years tolling a section of a film with endless posts as i see others do, there would be a some people I can think of that would oppose, especially if alot of 'us' did it, thing is I wouldn't think they were obsessed, just that they disagreed with my our views, especially the re-occurring ones because...this isn't math it's opinion. But in my experience 'we' don't do that, or I assume we don't, I don't frequent the forums of films i don't care for that much, can't speak for what goes on in them, rather I won't.

 

[StormC]

I have.
why?
and yes i'm familiar with that narrative, meh.

The phrase "under the impression" implied to me that you didn't see it, instead of saying something like "I found Civil War to be..." Which was especially weird because I don't think most people would take away that Civil War was particularly lighthearted. Seems like a pretty selective interpretation of the movie, but mostly it seemed like you were claiming something about a movie you hadn't actually seen.

 

[Marvin]

The phrase "under the impression" implied to me that you didn't see it, instead of saying something like "I found Civil War to be..." Which was especially weird because I don't think most people would take away that Civil War was particularly lighthearted. Seems like a pretty selective interpretation of the movie, but mostly it seemed like you were claiming something about a movie you hadn't actually seen.

I see. 'I got the impression from seeing that movie...' I can see how/why you would assume what u did. Most people would just ask for clarification and leave it at that.

I don't find that movie dark at all. The crow is dark, Logan is dark, Watchmen The prisoners, Se7en, half of their netflix shows... This movie may have been one of their more 'serious' offerings, however I'd be hard pressed to find something as fun and colourful as the air port fight the aforementioned. That there are some serious sad kills and revenge plots puts it in the same criteria as a GTD HellBoy for me. I found to book it was adapted from closer to 'dark', but i suppose millar can't help himself.