The Dark Knight Rises Nolan...add Robin!!!!!!

[magicangel1989]

NO ROBIN PLEASE! Give me five good reasons why Robin should be in the Nolan Batman series.

 

[terry78]

NO ROBIN PLEASE! Give me five good reasons why Robin should be in the Nolan Batman series.

1. It will allow Nolan to showcase a different side to both Wayne and his alter ego has he attempts to be the mentor as well as feel guilt and anger about Dick going down the same path.

2. The Robin character has been provided an ample amount of depth over the decades from just being an add-on to cater to kids. The most recent RIP/Reborn saga has him attempting to take on the mantle itself.

3. Nolan will have the chance to provide conflict with Batman amongst someone other than love interests, potential villains, and the GCPD.

4. Nolan obviously enjoys a challenge, and making Robin a non-campy character that fanboys will actually embrace is something he should be more than capable of doing.

5. Dick Grayson more than likely exists in the Nolan-verse, so eventually the canon demands he enter the stage at some point.

 

[Majik1387]

6. Batman mythos is bigger than Nolan's resume.

 

[ultrasuperduckman]

I heard that if you put subtitles on in the scene in BB where that kid says, "It's you...isn't it....no one's going to believe me," that his dad shouts, "Dick! get in here!"

Then later when he is with Katie Holmes he is wearing a red shirt with a green undershirt.

If Robin was added I don't think that would be him, I think that was probably more of a homage.

 

[Fresh Prince]

Robin storyline is dark for Batman moviesl ike this so he would work great for a Batman flick.

 

[COMPO]

I heard that if you put subtitles on in the scene in BB where that kid says, "It's you...isn't it....no one's going to believe me," that his dad shouts, "Dick! get in here!"

Then later when he is with Katie Holmes he is wearing a red shirt with a green undershirt.

If Robin was added I don't think that would be him, I think that was probably more of a homage.

what if Dick's parents where circus people and so was dick but the circus closed down and they ended up in the Narrows.

 

[ultrasuperduckman]

Maybe. But I believe his parents die while performing.

I'm not so much for the idea. But after getting into the comics more and more I'm starting to see why some cats want Robin.

 

[GL1]

Is this thread still going? Amazing.

There are five typical issues with bringing Robin into the Nolan franchise.

1) Nolan and Bale don't want him.

This is true of Bale certainly. Nolan simply is disinterested. But we're not talking about "will they." We're talking about "should they" or "can they." If we were talking about "will they" then the only issues addressed would be the quotes by the filmmakers on the subject. The fact that we're discussing Robin as a character makes this entire thread a discussion about how Robin can or cannot or should or should not be brought to the Nolan's franchise. Not whether it will happen. Admittedly, it is unlikely, just like Catwoman.

2) Robin is too "light" for Nolan's series.

2A) Robin's costume is too bright.

Stop right there. Change the costume. Problem solved.

2B) Robin's story is too bright.

A boy with murdered parents seeking vengeance against their killer isn't any brighter than Batman's story, is it?

2C) Robin fighting thugs as a child is too campy

No disagreement there. I guess we can't have him fighting grown men. Doesn't mean he can't be in it.

3) Robin doesn't fit within the movie's theme.

Well, since we don't know the movie's theme, that's a bit unfair. As for the trilogy's theme, someone pointed out the Hero's Journey earlier, that Batman's next step is to master his situation and overcome the problem's he's caused, which is fine and dandy.

What Robin does, on every conceivable level, is connect Bruce to the beginning of his journey. This allows for all manner of thematic parallelism and reflection. Most importantly, it gives Bruce a different view on his own problem. Even without being a "master" he can observe where Robin's path will take him, and from an objective position, gain insight into how to overcome his own situation. Learning through teaching, a concept immediately familiar to any teacher.

4) Robin's storyline brings up too many unanswerable questions

4A) Why would Batman take a kid out and endanger him?

He wouldn't. That doesn't mean the kid won't go out and need some rescuing, or that he can't train the kid to go out when he's older, or to meet the kid a myriad of other ways.

4B) How can Batman adopt a kid when his life is so chaotic right now?

He can't. He can however protect a witness in a crucial trial when the police are compromised. If that witness is Dick Grayson, and the case is important enough, then the safest place in the world is either Wayne Manor or the Batcave.

4C) How can you squeeze in Robin's origin story when there's a whole other plot to deal with? It'll steal screen time!

Don't. Deal with Robin's parents' death and his emotional responses after that, only as they relate to Bruce and his journey. Perhaps end the movie with the beginning of his training. Beyond that, there's no need for costuming, arming, solo vigilante excursions, arguments or any other myriad of events that would "steal" the movie from Batman.

5) NOOOOOOOOO ROBIN!!!!

Can you read?

Note
I could easily bring up five arguments against using the Joker, or Catwoman and certainly Ra's Al Ghoul and Scarecrow, but these are all characters that have worked within Nolan's 'verse with significant changes. Even Batman is a great deal different than he is in comics. If there is interest, Dick Grayson, if not Robin, can be done with moderate faithfulness, as a great addition to the franchise.

NO ROBIN PLEASE! Give me five good reasons why Robin should be in the Nolan Batman series.

At the risk of repeating:

1) Dick Grayson provides resonance and a link to the themes of the first movie, and second movie in a way. He brings perspective to the storyline.

2) A Robin-like character diversifies the cast. You have your old, Lucious, Alfred and Gordon, contrasted with your young, Grayson, Jim Jr and whoever else, that provide a backdrop for Bruce Wayne's interactions.

3) Robin does have a great deal of fans, history and stories to draw on. He is a very old and very popular character, in terms of comic books in general.

4) Robin opens up the door for spinoffs after Bale and Nolan are done.

5) If they can turn a by-definition-campy villain like Joker into TDK, imagine what they can do with Robin!?

Now give me five good reasons why they should include Catwoman.

 

[Fresh Prince]

Is this thread still going? Amazing.

There are five typical issues with bringing Robin into the Nolan franchise.

1) Nolan and Bale don't want him.

This is true of Bale certainly. Nolan simply is disinterested. But we're not talking about "will they." We're talking about "should they" or "can they." If we were talking about "will they" then the only issues addressed would be the quotes by the filmmakers on the subject. The fact that we're discussing Robin as a character makes this entire thread a discussion about how Robin can or cannot or should or should not be brought to the Nolan's franchise. Not whether it will happen. Admittedly, it is unlikely, just like Catwoman.

2) Robin is too "light" for Nolan's series.

2A) Robin's costume is too bright.

Stop right there. Change the costume. Problem solved.

2B) Robin's story is too bright.

A boy with murdered parents seeking vengeance against their killer isn't any brighter than Batman's story, is it?

2C) Robin fighting thugs as a child is too campy

No disagreement there. I guess we can't have him fighting grown men. Doesn't mean he can't be in it.

3) Robin doesn't fit within the movie's theme.

Well, since we don't know the movie's theme, that's a bit unfair. As for the trilogy's theme, someone pointed out the Hero's Journey earlier, that Batman's next step is to master his situation and overcome the problem's he's caused, which is fine and dandy.

What Robin does, on every conceivable level, is connect Bruce to the beginning of his journey. This allows for all manner of thematic parallelism and reflection. Most importantly, it gives Bruce a different view on his own problem. Even without being a "master" he can observe where Robin's path will take him, and from an objective position, gain insight into how to overcome his own situation. Learning through teaching, a concept immediately familiar to any teacher.

4) Robin's storyline brings up too many unanswerable questions

4A) Why would Batman take a kid out and endanger him?

He wouldn't. That doesn't mean the kid won't go out and need some rescuing, or that he can't train the kid to go out when he's older, or to meet the kid a myriad of other ways.

4B) How can Batman adopt a kid when his life is so chaotic right now?

He can't. He can however protect a witness in a crucial trial when the police are compromised. If that witness is Dick Grayson, and the case is important enough, then the safest place in the world is either Wayne Manor or the Batcave.

4C) How can you squeeze in Robin's origin story when there's a whole other plot to deal with? It'll steal screen time!

Don't. Deal with Robin's parents' death and his emotional responses after that, only as they relate to Bruce and his journey. Perhaps end the movie with the beginning of his training. Beyond that, there's no need for costuming, arming, solo vigilante excursions, arguments or any other myriad of events that would "steal" the movie from Batman.

5) NOOOOOOOOO ROBIN!!!!

Can you read?

Note
I could easily bring up five arguments against using the Joker, or Catwoman and certainly Ra's Al Ghoul and Scarecrow, but these are all characters that have worked within Nolan's 'verse with significant changes. Even Batman is a great deal different than he is in comics. If there is interest, Dick Grayson, if not Robin, can be done with moderate faithfulness, as a great addition to the franchise.



At the risk of repeating:

1) Dick Grayson provides resonance and a link to the themes of the first movie, and second movie in a way. He brings perspective to the storyline.

2) A Robin-like character diversifies the cast. You have your old, Lucious, Alfred and Gordon, contrasted with your young, Grayson, Jim Jr and whoever else, that provide a backdrop for Bruce Wayne's interactions.

3) Robin does have a great deal of fans, history and stories to draw on. He is a very old and very popular character, in terms of comic books in general.

4) Robin opens up the door for spinoffs after Bale and Nolan are done.

5) If they can turn a by-definition-campy villain like Joker into TDK, imagine what they can do with Robin!?

Now give me five good reasons why they should include Catwoman.

Fair enough but Robin can be doen justice finally in the next Batman movie series.

 

[COMPO]

I think he can, if we get a director who knows the source material who wants to keep it dark yet stay true then it can be done.

 

[GhostPoet]

Skip Robin completely and make a spin off film about Nightwing...then have a decent cameo of Batman and maybe a few flashbacks to a younger Robin fighting crime at Batman's side. But mainly, the story would be about Nightwing coming into his own.

Then we don't have to waste time seeing a ton of Robin.

 

[Fresh Prince]

People want Nightwing to come first before Robin in the movies just would not work.

 

[General_Obol]

I think I'd be okay with the Dick Grayson character appearing as long as the Robin persona does not. The same could be said for numerous other characters, like Kirk Langstrom, Tommy Elliot, and Victor Fries.

 

[Darlton]

Is this thread still going? Amazing.

There are five typical issues with bringing Robin into the Nolan franchise.

1) Nolan and Bale don't want him.

This is true of Bale certainly. Nolan simply is disinterested. But we're not talking about "will they." We're talking about "should they" or "can they." If we were talking about "will they" then the only issues addressed would be the quotes by the filmmakers on the subject. The fact that we're discussing Robin as a character makes this entire thread a discussion about how Robin can or cannot or should or should not be brought to the Nolan's franchise. Not whether it will happen. Admittedly, it is unlikely, just like Catwoman.

2) Robin is too "light" for Nolan's series.

2A) Robin's costume is too bright.

Stop right there. Change the costume. Problem solved.

2B) Robin's story is too bright.

A boy with murdered parents seeking vengeance against their killer isn't any brighter than Batman's story, is it?

2C) Robin fighting thugs as a child is too campy

No disagreement there. I guess we can't have him fighting grown men. Doesn't mean he can't be in it.

3) Robin doesn't fit within the movie's theme.

Well, since we don't know the movie's theme, that's a bit unfair. As for the trilogy's theme, someone pointed out the Hero's Journey earlier, that Batman's next step is to master his situation and overcome the problem's he's caused, which is fine and dandy.

What Robin does, on every conceivable level, is connect Bruce to the beginning of his journey. This allows for all manner of thematic parallelism and reflection. Most importantly, it gives Bruce a different view on his own problem. Even without being a "master" he can observe where Robin's path will take him, and from an objective position, gain insight into how to overcome his own situation. Learning through teaching, a concept immediately familiar to any teacher.

4) Robin's storyline brings up too many unanswerable questions

4A) Why would Batman take a kid out and endanger him?

He wouldn't. That doesn't mean the kid won't go out and need some rescuing, or that he can't train the kid to go out when he's older, or to meet the kid a myriad of other ways.

4B) How can Batman adopt a kid when his life is so chaotic right now?

He can't. He can however protect a witness in a crucial trial when the police are compromised. If that witness is Dick Grayson, and the case is important enough, then the safest place in the world is either Wayne Manor or the Batcave.

4C) How can you squeeze in Robin's origin story when there's a whole other plot to deal with? It'll steal screen time!

Don't. Deal with Robin's parents' death and his emotional responses after that, only as they relate to Bruce and his journey. Perhaps end the movie with the beginning of his training. Beyond that, there's no need for costuming, arming, solo vigilante excursions, arguments or any other myriad of events that would "steal" the movie from Batman.

5) NOOOOOOOOO ROBIN!!!!

Can you read?

Note
I could easily bring up five arguments against using the Joker, or Catwoman and certainly Ra's Al Ghoul and Scarecrow, but these are all characters that have worked within Nolan's 'verse with significant changes. Even Batman is a great deal different than he is in comics. If there is interest, Dick Grayson, if not Robin, can be done with moderate faithfulness, as a great addition to the franchise.



At the risk of repeating:

1) Dick Grayson provides resonance and a link to the themes of the first movie, and second movie in a way. He brings perspective to the storyline.

2) A Robin-like character diversifies the cast. You have your old, Lucious, Alfred and Gordon, contrasted with your young, Grayson, Jim Jr and whoever else, that provide a backdrop for Bruce Wayne's interactions.

3) Robin does have a great deal of fans, history and stories to draw on. He is a very old and very popular character, in terms of comic books in general.

4) Robin opens up the door for spinoffs after Bale and Nolan are done.

5) If they can turn a by-definition-campy villain like Joker into TDK, imagine what they can do with Robin!?

Now give me five good reasons why they should include Catwoman.

Hehehe, well, your responses to each issue actually give most of the anti-Robin people the things they want, down to ending the film with the beginning of training he will be doing until he becomes a grown man. I don't really see them as counter-arguments, but perhaps that's not what you intended. Great rationale, BTW. Very synthetic.

As you say it is feasible and even desirable to some point. The only question that remains is if adding Robin so early would detract of other "possibly" stronger themes that may or may not come first... but since we can all agree that no one has the last word on what constitutes a better theme, it's subjectivity and the debate should be put to rest.

I don't agree with everything, though. For example, I think Robin has as many fans as detractors, as the poll here seems to suggest. Also, I wouldn't really say the Joker is "campy by definition". Certainly not. I wouldn't say Robin is either, but the fact that a troubled, distrustful man like Bruce allows a boy to fight criminals with him... yes, it feels a little campy and weird. However you acknowledged the problem, in your fourth point. The witness protection thing is very clever.

Well, that's it, it's a very good summary you made up here, and I have to say, that would be a Robin inclusion I wouldn't mind seeing. I do think there are better angles right now that exclude Robin, but it's a problem of tastes.
I surely would like to see what 'five arguments' you would bring up with the Joker, Ra's and Scarecrow (other than realism-based complaints or ovr-the-top issues that were clearly solved, often in very radical ways that not all Robin fans would suffer). And I want to hear about your five arguments against Catwoman, since she hasn't really been used in any Nolan film.

 

[Fresh Prince]

All i know is a Robin can be done in a bat flcik with a dark tone.

 

[darknight7]

Everytime a new Batman movie is made...Robin is mentioned.

Everyone has to face the facts...Robin will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER fit into Nolan's movies...

THE END!


--dk7

 

[darknight7]

I don't hate Robin.

I don't love the character either.

I would not mind seeing him in a Batman movie in the future. But it would have to be the next franchise they do... it would have to be a seperate 3 Batman movies 15 years from now that is very close to the comics in style, design and all that jazz.

Nolan grounds his stuff in a realistic world (ya I know, I'm pulling the realistic card again)
As much as people say: "well come on, a man with a cape off buildings...that's not real"

Well than, I am pretty sure a 10-13 year old boy doing the same crap is NOT REAL.

It would not work. It wouldn't. There is already too much going on, and too much to be resolved in Batman 3. There is no room for Robin.

Batman has to clear his name, he has no time to train some young punk

--dk7

 

[COMPO]

why 15 years from now? why not just in number 4?

 

[Fresh Prince]

why 15 years from now? why not just in number 4?

Their won't be a #4 3 is it.

 

[Fresh Prince]

I don't hate Robin.

I don't love the character either.

I would not mind seeing him in a Batman movie in the future. But it would have to be the next franchise they do... it would have to be a seperate 3 Batman movies 15 years from now that is very close to the comics in style, design and all that jazz.

Nolan grounds his stuff in a realistic world (ya I know, I'm pulling the realistic card again)
As much as people say: "well come on, a man with a cape off buildings...that's not real"

Well than, I am pretty sure a 10-13 year old boy doing the same crap is NOT REAL.

It would not work. It wouldn't. There is already too much going on, and too much to be resolved in Batman 3. There is no room for Robin.

Batman has to clear his name, he has no time to train some young punk

--dk7

Agreed.

 

[COMPO]

Their won't be a #4 3 is it.

I meant uno Batman4

 

[Majik1387]

Their won't be a #4 3 is it.

Bull****.

There may not be a 4th one by Nolan & possibly Bale, but WB won't stop because of them.

 

[Fresh Prince]

Bull****.

There may not be a 4th one by Nolan & possibly Bale, but WB won't stop because of them.

They will have to get a new director and have a new world. They cannot just continue Nolan Batman series. It will turn out like the Bat franchise in the 90s.

 

[Majik1387]

Nah, I thought Burton's world was continued alright in Forever(only). Don't really see why another director can't use Nolan's world.

 

[GL1]

Everyone has to face the facts...

Including yourself. All you are sharing is opinions.