BubbaGump
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Sorry, but DKR was actually interesting.
I agree.
Sorry, but DKR was actually interesting.
Sorry, but DKR was actually interesting.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one who thought TLH was overrated. It confuses me to this day, how acclaimed it is. But in a weird way, I can see what Nolan likes about it. The whole thing with the freaks versus Mob, the teaming up of Gordon/Dent/Batman. There are decent elements in there that can be embellished upon, but overall, "meh."
How are his motivations inconsistent?? Slow and boring? Yes, it is slowly paced but the atmosphere is dark and brooding and the artwork is great.
Sorry, I meant Maroni. Maroni's motivations are inconsistent. And I know this is blasphemy around her, but I've never been a fan of Tim Sale's artwork.
Here it is folks! Enjoy! (For the alphabetically challenged: CN = Chris Nolan DG = David Goyer)
Wow! I didn't expect you to really do it, but I just got back from dinner and here it is! Nice work, thanks! We owe you some SHH! bucks or something.
Wow! I didn't expect you to really do it, but I just got back from dinner and here it is! Nice work, thanks! We owe you some SHH! bucks or something.
if anything the sage is overrated![]()
More than that. It took old ideas and really expanded on them in an epic tale. It didn't just paint the old car, it pimped it.Nolan and Goyer are overrating the originality of TLH.
That Batman Annual from 1990 introduces the whole "Batman working with the D.A. to put criminals in jail" concept (with the roof top meeting by the Bat Signal), as well as Feilds, the corrupt little punk who gave Maroni the acid to use on Dent.
DKR also raised the question of whether or not Batman is responsible for his villians, such as The Joker.
So it's not like TLH really paved any new ground. It just put a fresh coat of paint on an old car.
I hope so. Year One = BB, TLH = TDK, DV = third movie. I'd love to see that.Maybe in the last movie we'll get a version of DARK VICTORY, one the few good origin stories of Robin.
Here it is folks! Enjoy! (For the alphabetically challenged: CN = Chris Nolan DG = David Goyer)
INTRODUCTION: A Conversation with Christopher Nolan and David S. Goyer
CN: When youre putting together a Batman film, people always ask, Are you looking at this comic book or that comic book? And the truth is you look at all of them. As a filmmaker, though, THE LONG HALLOWEEN was one Batman story that really drew me in in terms of cinematic potential.
DG: It is cinematic. I think TLH stands out as probably the most ambitious Batman story thats been told. It certainly feels like the most densely plotted.
CN: Its a crime epic. Jeph Loeb did this incredible job of taking the more exotic elements of the Batman universe and grounding them in a believable world. He took supporting characters and gave them real lives and real emotions. And real consequences to their actions. This has tremendous impact on the reader. TLH is more than a comic book. Its an epic tragedy.
DG: Right. And Tim Sales artwork accentuates that by relying on a restricted color palette and a strong usage of shadow. It creates this stylistic balance between being expressionistic but also feeling somewhat realistic. It reminds me of Fritz Langs M. Most of the time people want to make these things look more like Metropolis, but I think it looks and feels more like M.
CN: Exactly. The artwork is fantastically noirish. It portrays this massive American city and the underworld that threatens to envelop it in striking detail and remarkable scope.
DG: In so many of the previous depictions of Batman, he was running around fighting bad guys in a vacuum. The machinations of the police, the corruption within the force, how Batman, and Gordon, and Dent negotiate all of that-none of that has been examined prior to TLH.
CN: Well, we co-opted TLHs idea of the triumvirate for Batman Begins to some extent, showing Batman function as one point of a strong triangle with the police and the D.A. by acting as a force that can crack things open and provide a wedge against all the corruption.
DG: That scene on the rooftop between Gordon, Dent, and Batman in TLH in which you realize Batman can obviously bring criminals to justice, but he needs the police to arrest them and the D.A.s office to prosecute them that was something new that Jeph Loeb introduced into the lore. For Batman Begins, we used Rachel instead of Dent as the pinnacle of the triangle, but she still served the same function.
CN: Same function exactly. TLH suggested a very strong utility for Batman in Gotham, which helped us because when you try to adapt the character into a movie in a realistic manner, youre left with that question, Okay, whats Batmans purpose? He cant be everywhere at once. Hes not superhuman. Hes just a regular guy. So how will he be most effective? How can he leverage his skills to transform the whole city? TLH answered that question, positioning Batman and Bruce Wayne as a part of a greater mechanism in Gotham. Along those lines, I was impressed with how seamlessly Loeb and Sale were able to intergrate the more fantastical elements of Batman, more notably the villains, within the context of the real world, striking a balance that felt credible. It was a great inspiration to us in terms of tonality.
DG: Thats certainly the case with Jim Gordon. TLH really ran with what Year One started, giving us an entirely different depiction of Gordon. Previously in the comic books, in the movies, and in the TV show, Gordon was this kind of bumbling, avuncular character, whereas in these stories, hes depicted as this beleaguered, mid-level sergeant in this rampantly corrupt police force, which is the Gordon we meet in Batman Begins.
CN: Yes. And I think as we get on with THE DARK KNIGHT, TLH is becoming more influential in terms of Harvey Dent. Throughout writing Batman Begins, we had always talked a lot about dealing with Harvey Dent, whether or not to feature him in some way in the movie. I think we had him in there in the very earliest stages of conception.
DG: Yeah, we did. Briefly.
CN: And then we realized we couldnt do him justice.
DG: For me, there are three major comic book influences within the Batman lore. Theres YEAR ONE, the Neal Adams stuff, and there is TLH. But by the time THE DARK KNIGHT comes out, it will become apparent that TLH is the preeminent influence on both movies.
CN: Yeah, I think that could be right.
Christopher Nolan and David Goyer spoke about TLH on November 15, 2006, a few weeks before principal photography began on TDK.
That was a long dinner, haha.
It was a dinner meeting and I used public transportation.
I hope so. Year One = BB, TLH = TDK, DV = third movie. I'd love to see that.
Personally DKR is overrated. TLH is freaking great while DKR is boring and weird.
More than interesting it was actually great and re-defining.