Official Contest of Marvels II Discussion Thread

[Hellstormer]

The reason is that the tournament is a series of independent battles rather than a tournament of fights. At least from our characters perspective.

I remember one of the arguments was Silver Surfer vs Cassandra Nova last season. An argument the Surfer was that his pacifistic nature would keep him from going all out against Nova. And because he knew it was just a tournament, Norrin wouldn't risk killing her just to win the fight and would sacrifice himself.

So we realized that this would limit many heroes. But by making each battle independent, all the characters are 'fighting for their lives' because they don't know what will happen if they lose. To do this, the fighters couldn't be allowed to carry over anything from previous rounds.

...still lame

 

[primemover]

I need a ruling here, or at least information on why this discrepency is showing up in regards to The Wrecker and his powers.

In JewishHobbits opening remarks he brings up the idea of Shadowcat phasing The Wreckers crowbar and hiding it in the ground, and then kicking his ass because he is now, as Hobbit puts it, basically powerless and an ordinary guy.

In all the comics I have read, since Karnilla mistakenly granted him his power, he has always had a high degree of strength and durability, with or without the crowbar, at times ripping easily through solid steel. In fact the crowbar became powered because of it's continued contact with The Wrecker himself, and other people touching the crowbar could gain powers that they held for an undetermined amount of time after touching the crowbar, though eventually wearing out.

Recently though, he has been punked a few times immediately when losing control of the crowbar, even by Speed Demon(I believe), but many of his previous battles showed him to be powered even when not in contact with the crowbar.

Has anything changed recently with the character that makes this the case, or is it the case of bad writing. If it's the latter I need to know which version of the character I have.

 

[Midnight Ice]

Seriously, I need to know what the Zodiac Key is made of, and also, is there any sort of civilization on Anhillus' planet?

The Zodiac Key is made up of an unknown mineral. It has no tech to it, kida like Thor's Hammer.

 

[Zoken]

thanks... for some reason I never realized it had a link to it. it would have saved me some thought.

 

[kytrigger]

I need a ruling on the Scorpion/Alex Powers match. Alex Powers has had a number of power changes and i just want to know exactly which version we are working with. Is this the normal gravity manipulation version, or the version where he has all of his brother and sister's powers as well?

I know the bio states that in the 2000 and 05-06 mini series he was zero-g again, but I don't know if he changed back, or what exactly happened.

 

[Harlekin]

The 05/06 mini is out of contuinity, and the only incarnation of Alex that was ruled elligible for this competition was the New Warriors one, in which he has the powers of the rest of the Pack. You'll note the absence of the other Pack-members in the CoM.

 

[kytrigger]

Damn...well that sucks. I'll change around my opening debate now. Is it okay if I edit my first post? (I don't like editing something in this tournament without the opponent's consent to it)

 

[JewishHobbit]

I need a ruling here, or at least information on why this discrepency is showing up in regards to The Wrecker and his powers.

In JewishHobbits opening remarks he brings up the idea of Shadowcat phasing The Wreckers crowbar and hiding it in the ground, and then kicking his ass because he is now, as Hobbit puts it, basically powerless and an ordinary guy.

In all the comics I have read, since Karnilla mistakenly granted him his power, he has always had a high degree of strength and durability, with or without the crowbar, at times ripping easily through solid steel. In fact the crowbar became powered because of it's continued contact with The Wrecker himself, and other people touching the crowbar could gain powers that they held for an undetermined amount of time after touching the crowbar, though eventually wearing out.

Recently though, he has been punked a few times immediately when losing control of the crowbar, even by Speed Demon(I believe), but many of his previous battles showed him to be powered even when not in contact with the crowbar.

Has anything changed recently with the character that makes this the case, or is it the case of bad writing. If it's the latter I need to know which version of the character I have.

I honestly don't know much about Wrecker and was just going off of what the bio says. It states that when he loses the Crowbar he reverts to plain old "fill in real name here", so I was using that in my match. Since I'm the opponant I don't want to make any official calls so I'll let Phaed look at it and decide where Wrecker stands with his crowbar. He might know more about him than me anyhow.

 

[hippy fascist]

I honestly don't know much about Wrecker and was just going off of what the bio says. It states that when he loses the Crowbar he reverts to plain old "fill in real name here", so I was using that in my match. Since I'm the opponant I don't want to make any official calls so I'll let Phaed look at it and decide where Wrecker stands with his crowbar. He might know more about him than me anyhow.

In new avengers it showed he had to get the crowbar back to restore his powers

 

[primemover]

I honestly don't know much about Wrecker and was just going off of what the bio says. It states that when he loses the Crowbar he reverts to plain old "fill in real name here", so I was using that in my match. Since I'm the opponant I don't want to make any official calls so I'll let Phaed look at it and decide where Wrecker stands with his crowbar. He might know more about him than me anyhow.

The ruling shouldn't be about whether losing the crowbar makes him powerless, because I have several comic pages of feats that demonstrate that's not the case, the ruling should be only for if Wrecker has changed in relation to his powers and if that is the case which version I have.

 

[primemover]

In new avengers it showed he had to get the crowbar back to restore his powers

But there are other comics that show he is still majorly powered even without it, at least strong enough to tear steel apart with his bare hands and be bulletproof.

 

[hippy fascist]

But there are other comics that show he is still majorly powered even without it, at least strong enough to tear steel apart with his bare hands and be bulletproof.

before or after new avengers? with these kind of things you have to go with the most recent version

 

[hippy fascist]

from wiki:

The Wrecker's enchanted crowbar is the key to his power. When stripped of his crowbar, the Wrecker once more becomes Dirk Garthwaite. The Asgardian energy then lies dormant in the crowbar until the Wrecker reactivates it. The Wrecker can also utilise the crowbar in many of the same ways that Thor utilizes Mjolnir: examples include deflecting bullets; returning to the Wrecker when thrown; creating force fields; teleporting himself and others and controlling the minds of others who try to possess the crowbar.

 

[primemover]

from wiki:

The Wrecker's enchanted crowbar is the key to his power. When stripped of his crowbar, the Wrecker once more becomes Dirk Garthwaite. The Asgardian energy then lies dormant in the crowbar until the Wrecker reactivates it. The Wrecker can also utilise the crowbar in many of the same ways that Thor utilizes Mjolnir: examples include deflecting bullets; returning to the Wrecker when thrown; creating force fields; teleporting himself and others and controlling the minds of others who try to possess the crowbar.

No mention of that Here, Here or Here

The two recent times he's been knocked out, first against Speed Demon, and then against Spider-Woman, Luke Cage, Spider-Man and Wolverine really don't demonstrate he's powerless when he's without the crowbar, as both times the crowbar was used against him, a crowbar that grants the user tremendous strength along with the strength of the crowbar itself, and it was used by super-powered people with their own stregths.

Speed Demon hit him MANY times, Flash style, until he went down, and against the New Avengers it took the combined forces of the four I mentioned above, and then after they got the crowbar from him, Spider-Woman hitting him with it, and THEN Luke Cage finally knocking him out with it. Luke Cage ain't no slouch, that combined with the crowbar, it took a lot of effort to knock out a 'supposed' powerless, regular joe named Dirk.

From the facts it seems like he IS super strong and durable without the crowbar, just more WITH the crowbar.

 

[hippy fascist]

No mention of that Here, Here or Here

The two recent times he's been knocked out, first against Speed Demon, and then against Spider-Woman, Luke Cage, Spider-Man and Wolverine really don't demonstrate he's powerless when he's without the crowbar, as both times the crowbar was used against him, a crowbar that grants the user tremendous strength along with the strength of the crowbar itself, and it was used by super-powered people with their own stregths.

Speed Demon hit him MANY times, Flash style, until he went down, and against the New Avengers it took the combined forces of the four I mentioned above, and then after they got the crowbar from him, Spider-Woman hitting him with it, and THEN Luke Cage finally knocking him out with it. Luke Cage ain't no slouch, that combined with the crowbar, it took a lot of effort to knock out a 'supposed' powerless, regular joe named Dirk.

From the facts it seems like he IS super strong and durable without the crowbar, just more WITH the crowbar.

Maybe it's like thor, he used to need the crowbar but no longer requires it to retain his powers. I don't know, best to ask phaed on this one. He has every appearance by any marvel character EVER!

 

[primemover]

Maybe it's like thor, he used to need the crowbar but no longer requires it to retain his powers. I don't know, best to ask phaed on this one. He has every appearance by any marvel character EVER!

He does have a lot in common with Thor, but actually it is kind of opposite. Originally only he was powered, the crowbar was just a crowbar, but due to it being in contact with the magically powered Wrecker it became powered itself. He after that used the crowbar as a way of focusing his power, and even later he used the crowbar to regain his powers, as the crowbar is able to give others powers, hence the Wrecking Crew, but those powers will fade eventually after a period of time if they are away from the crowbar.

 

[Harlekin]

Damn...well that sucks. I'll change around my opening debate now. Is it okay if I edit my first post? (I don't like editing something in this tournament without the opponent's consent to it)

That's cool.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Just a reminder to Primemover and Hippy that nothing has been debated on the Rematch in Thread 4 between Polaris and Forge.

 

[primemover]

Just a reminder to Primemover and Hippy that nothing has been debated on the Rematch in Thread 4 between Polaris and Forge.

Yeah, still thinking about the match, what is the deadline for debate for this round?

Also Phaed, did you see my posts about The Wrecker, or am I to take your silence as you accept what I supposed?

Here are the posts with the information needed, 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.

 

[wiegeabo]

Noon tomorrow, PST.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Yeah, still thinking about the match, what is the deadline for debate for this round?

Also Phaed, did you see my posts about The Wrecker, or am I to take your silence as you accept what I supposed?

Here are the posts with the information needed, 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.

I'm not sure with this in regards to his powers. You are right that various people have written him in different ways. When I went against one of the Wrecking Crew, at different times he was able to do different abilities (even in conjunction with having the other members around.) If I remember correctly, there powers have changed due to various incidents in the Wrecking Crews past. Here is some information that may help explain:

The Wrecker somehow finally returned to Earth and was reunited with the Crew, but their powers began fading when many of Asgard's links to Earth were separated. Leaving the Crew to find the source of his fading powers, he found the god Set, who beat him so severely as to remand him to the hospital. Later, the entire Crew received a power boost when hired by Arnim Zola to battle the Thunderbolts (unaware that the Thunderbolts included many of their former allies in the Masters of Evil). Although this power boost was successful, it was based on science, not magic, and the Wrecker came to believe later that he lost the “edge” Asgardian power gave him.

So, I think where the confusion lies is the fact they don't have Asgardian powers anymore; especially considering Asgard doesn't exist anymore.

I don't know if this helps or not.

 

[Phaedrus45]

I have a question regarding the Negative Zone; but, I've tried to research it, and just can't find the information. I'm doubting anyone will know, but thought I'd ask.

Does anyone know how regular energy from the 616 reacts when used in the Negative Zone with it's negatively-charged energy? I've been thinking on this, and it seems like there just might be some dire consequences.

 

[wiegeabo]

Well, in the real world, if the Negative Zone was really an anti-matter universe, then interacting with matter would not be good. Every particle of matter would annihilate its anti-matter counterpart in a massiv release of energy in the form of intense radiation and exotic particles.

A big boom.

And even if it's just an anti-energy universe, energy is just particles/waves. As particles, you'd get the same annihilation, and the waves would just cancel eachother out. It's more complicated than that, but it's so hard to visualize what happens at the quantum level of energy.


Lucky this is comic reality.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Thank you, thank you. Just a lesson that one it seems a match is hopeless, there is always a chance for a win in the strangest ways.

I'm resubmitting my Klaw vs. Famine match. I thought about it today, and realized Klaw's energy would have extreme problems in the Negative Zone.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Just to let everyone know, I kept my opening argument in Thread 2, as the rules state you cannot edit previous arguments. Even though DHR hasn't debated yet, I didn't want to possibly break any rules. I did put in an edit that states I wish for all voters to proceed further down to my new opening argument for Klaw vs. Famine.