Official Cyclops/marsden Thread

[X-Maniac]

Honestly, i could care less about what happens to Jean in X3. I know she died in the comics. But we're not talking about Jean, we're talking about Cyclops

The fact is, Cyclops is dying because of two reasons: Marsden jumping to Superman Returns and the need to throw in shock deaths. I'd be less pissed about Cyke dying if he actually got some focus in the damn movies. If they actually showed this guy is the badass leader of the X-men. If they actually showed that Scott deserves Jean more than Logan.

And you act like Cyclops cant go on without Jean. I say after Jean makes her sacrifice, he come to grips with the fact that she's gone. Hell, why should i bother, they havent convinced me that Scott and Jean deeply love each other.

The Death is a bad idea, plain and simple, because Cyclops hasnt been developed enough to have people give a damn. And this is all because Fox are a bunch of bastards. They screwed up Fantastic Four, and now they're gonna screw up X-Men

The death is a bad idea - in your opinion. Don't spew out your own tainted view as though it is fact.

Yes, Marsden did jump to Superman, where he will play a substantial part of the movie in a love triangle. His choice. And Fox's choice not to want him to play a substantial part in what is seen as a rival movie (made by business competitors, though i don't regard them as competing) coming out at the same time. Of course Marsden is keen to be part of X3, allegedly. Like any actor he wants to be part of a something successful and lucrative.
He opted for Superman at a time when X3 was shrouded in uncertainty - good move at the time for him, crap move as far as the Cyclops character goes. But there are other factors involved. It's not just Fox being petty.

He's had his moments in X1 and X2, but Wolverine has shone brighter through the way the movies have been made.

None of us would mind if they somehow found a way for him to be a badass leader, but through Marsden's decisions, Fox's reactions and the naturally evolving slant of the storyline, it SEEMS that it will not happen.

 

[Ratcrawler]

I'm hesitant to point this out but I think there's a race angle involved with the death of Cyclops and likely promotion of Storm. First lemme say I hope I'm wrong about this. But think about it. The X-Men are the ultimate persecuted minority. As such, the films have an appeal to Jews, Blacks and Gays as Ian McKellen has often mentioned. Yet, really, most of them are white.

Wolverine
Cyclops
Jean
Rogue
Iceman
Xavier
Colossus
Leech
Pyro
Juggernaut
Beast
Angel
Gambit
Cannonball
Avalanche
Magneto
Shadowcat

Ok, the last two are Jewish but you see my point? Storm is really the only mutant of color in this film. As such, how is she supposed to stand out in such a huge cast? EsPecially in a series that keeps getting a bigger one in each film? Simplest answer would be to commit this comic book heresy and kill off Cyclops, replacing this straight laced white male whom audiences never really got to know as a leader as much as a rival for Mr. sPotlight. (I'm looking at YOU, Wolverine.) Halle's a bigger name draw anyway and if FOX ever wants her to consider returning for future sequels they'll place her right up there, front and center with Wolverine.

 

[Ions]

The death is a bad idea - in your opinion. Don't spew out your own tainted view as though it is fact.

But it's ok when you do it? Aye? Because that's all you're peddling, your own 'tainted' view. If what Batman has said can be viewed as tainted by you, then your own posts can be too.

Yes, Marsden did jump to Superman, where he will play a substantial part of the movie in a love triangle. His choice. And Fox's choice not to want him to play a substantial part in what is seen as a rival movie (made by business competitors, though i don't regard them as competing) coming out at the same time. Of course Marsden is keen to be part of X3, allegedly. Like any actor he wants to be part of a something successful and lucrative.
He opted for Superman at a time when X3 was shrouded in uncertainty - good move at the time for him, crap move as far as the Cyclops character goes. But there are other factors involved. It's not just Fox being petty.

He didn't jump to anything from anything. X-men 3 was left in limbo for years before Fox got around to making the project and making sure they released X-3 before Superman Returns. While Sony was busy keeping production of one Spider-man movie to the next going and signing things long before filming comes along. Fox sits around umming and arring unwilling to sign people to the project before, with nearly a year to go they decide at the last minute to get things going. Sony deserves all the success and profit Spider-man gives them. They earn it.
That's why Singer left, Fox didn't wanna sign contracts, or anything. A big insult really, 2 successful movies and they won't even sign him on the project and let him start pre-production.
Marsden's choice... to work rather than hang around doing nothing waiting for Fox to suddenly decide to get the 3rd X-men movie in production. Unlike SR, X-men 3 hasn't had long pre-production(pre-production isn't happening without a director!). And it's also pretty clear he's working on SR to work with a friend that is Bryan Singer. Much like other actors in the past have stuck to one director when both the director and actor like to work with each other.
You act like there was some attempt by Marsden to snub X-men. And the only reason there is any rivalry is from Fox, seriously. Getting a movie together and in theatres within 1 year isn't a 'good' movie making decision. SR has been in pre-production for months before they started filming months back. Fox is rushing to beat it to the theatres(look how late they signed a director). If anyones challenging anyone its Fox. SR isn't rushing to meet its release date. SR's release date is after what could of been an easy date to release to by X-3. But Fox again dragged their ass and let the time roll on. If Superman Returns kicks X-3's ass, Fox deserves it.

He's had his moments in X1 and X2, but Wolverine has shone brighter through the way the movies have been made.

He had moments? Which were these? The mourning of Jean at the end of X-2? Yeah a tad late to develop a character at that point, especially since he was absent for most of the movie. Pyro had as much attention. The scripts of both movies had more stuff for Cyclops to do, Fox(and producers) in their infernal wisdom decided to cut that stuff. So it's not like the director and his production staff were opposed to Cyclops. Fact is in fantasy that movies and books and all the mediums represent, any character can be made interesting. The idea that somehow Cyclops is a blackhole from which no good character development may come is ludicrous.

None of us would mind if they somehow found a way for him to be a badass leader, but through Marsden's decisions, Fox's reactions and the naturally evolving slant of the storyline, it SEEMS that it will not happen.

We don't know anything, except one draft of the film from a few months back that may have been the one Vaughn helped write. We can safely assume the basic action of the early script review is gone(Angel's father was a main villain, hes clearly not one now). They'd be stupid to continue on with the same dramatic elements now people already know. If any deaths remain its to clear some of the non-returning cast out in dramatic fashion.
And as already stated, that script was written when it was in doubt whether Marsden would be able to even get out of SR production to be there for X-3's since they had started production on X-3 so last minute. Singer didn't want Marsden to suffer so he reordered filming so Marsden would be able to be there for most of the X-3 shoot. You seem to be oblivious to just how late in the game Fox decided this film was gonna get made. 1 year away from release and they hadn't even signed on a director. The most important person for a film. Singer left when they wouldn't sign him, Marsden signed on to Singer's film since X-men 3 hadn't even started production at that point.
And seeing how much Singer likes Marsden(going out of his way to give him a good role in SR), you ascertain just how much Fox had to do with how Cyclops has being treated thus far in X-men. It might be as Ratcrawler is saying in the post above mine. He's too 'white' to be given focus.

If Cyclops is killed off it's to punish him for working with Singer again on a different superhero movie. Which would only prove the opinions of many who think Fox and Tom Rothman are petty and belligerent. [Ions isn't amused after writing such a long post]
Come on Lucy, make a funny so I can get amused again!

 

[-Æ-]

Anarchy

Destruction

Chaos

All signs that Apocolypse will return!!!!

 

[Minisinoo]

We don't know anything, except one draft of the film from a few months back that may have been the one Vaughn helped write. We can safely assume the basic action of the early script review is gone(Angel's father was a main villain, hes clearly not one now). They'd be stupid to continue on with the same dramatic elements now people already know. If any deaths remain its to clear some of the non-returning cast out in dramatic fashion.

Ion, while I agree with a lot of what you said, the above isn't necessarily true. As I've noted before, it's entirely possibly to heavily revise something, change some points ... yet not change others. I've done it plenty of times myself.

As much as I HOPE and pray that Cyke does have a role in X3, and a decent one, his death -- far from being denied -- seems to be continually confirmed by new rumors. I don't like that -- trust me. I PISSES ME OFF. But until someone say, "Ooops, no, that rumor is wrong, he's not dying," the mere fact that the script has been significantly revised doesn't convince me the plot points have changed, or not all of them.

Again, I agree with much of what you've said, but I've not yet read anything that makes me hopeful about Cyke's role in X3. If someone HAS some good news, believe me, I'll be DELIGHTED. Really. I desperately want some good news for my boy on this script. But so far, I haven't really seen anything that's made me hope. And he's been treated badly enough in the previous two that I'm not optimistic for optimism alone.

(And folks REMEMBER ... actors make film choices for their CAREERS -- not for the sake of fictional characters. We are the fans. But they actually have to make a living. Quit, dammit, blaming the poor actors for going where there's a JOB. That includes both Halle Berry and James Marsden. Jesus. Marsden at least as a wife, a kid, and another on the way. Give the poor guy a break for heaven's sake. He's a good actor. He's fought for Cyke in the past, he's given his all to the films. Blame ROTHMAN, not Marsden.)

--Minisinoo
The Medicine Wheel: X-Men Fanfiction

 

[Timstuff]

I too worry immensly for our boy Cyke. No-one from the production has come out and say "No, Cyclops does not die in the movie", so it's still entirely possible that he's going to bite it. However it's also possible that they aren't adressing it because they don't want the story to be public domain. If people don't know wether or not Cyke will live through X3, it would make it that much more satasfying if he survives.

But if they DO kill of Cyke, I'm gonna set fire to Rothman's house. Seriousely.

 

[-Æ-]

But if they DO kill of Cyke, I'm gonna set fire to Rothman's house. Seriousely.

Ill be watching the news for that one!

 

[aaron]

yeh me too.

the headline 'psychotic fan kills big boss at fox'

 

[Octoberist]

I don't think that a fire could kill a "Rothman".

 

[aaron]

a beheading?

 

[Octoberist]

The evil of a "Rothman" is so great that our feeble little minds cannot comprehend it's evilness.

 

[aaron]

perhaps, perhaps

 

[Octoberist]

Kol, seriously, Rothman is the downfall of Fox. NOt to say that he is not sucessful, but he is the weakest link within that studio. Pull a Warner Bros. and get a new chairman. Because of the new Warner CEO, Batman Begins and Superman Return got the green light.

 

[aaron]

yeah, i know who he is.

i remember alex proyas saying he wouldnt do another movie for fox until rothman was no longer in control.

thats why he wouldnt do x3.

 

[aaron]

i know he is*

 

[Octoberist]

Proyas would of done a great job if he directed X3 (not to say that i'm complaining about Ratner) with utter total freedom. But no..stupid rothman

 

[aaron]

proyas' work is so good. irobot was great.

...but dark city....that inspired the matrix in my opinion.

 

[Octoberist]

The Crow and Dark City are awesome.

I think with Dark City and The Matrix, with story ideas, it was a coinsedence. Like with Garden State and Elizabethtown; they both have simliar plots (from what I know thus far) but they were made ABOUT the sametime, but just different release dates.

BTW, it's not like the Matrix was THAT creative. I came up with an idea like that when I was in the seventh grade. I'm willing to bet you that there were sci-fi books that had simliar plots that were precursors to the Matrix.

 

[aaron]

yeah, im sure there is.

just like m night shamalyan's idea for the village, being basically the same as a book. which he got sued for.

 

[Ions]

<snipped for space>Blame ROTHMAN, not Marsden.)

--Minisinoo
The Medicine Wheel: X-Men Fanfiction

Yeah I agree(regarding your entire post), if I think about it cynically(which is how I normally see things). I like Cyke, I like James(one of my fav castings in the X-men films thus far) I wanted both to succeed, so i'll stay positive(ignoring my more cynical inclinations) about it till its confirmed.
I still hope they've changed Cykes death based off the reaction to it. As I just said in the Gambit forum, i'd be ok with him dying some grand death if he'd of been given a chance to shine upto now. He hasn't. If and when the death is assured, i'll then become a cynical little so and so...

It's pretty clear now that Singer and his team wasn't the cause for how poorly Cyke was handled thus far(which in turn makes me like Singer more, since I did resent him for how Cyke was handled, now I know better). The fact Singer was annoyed by it enough to give James a good role in SR further proves the playing down of Cyke didn't come from him. He thinks James is a good actor. So yeah, blame Rothman. [Ions annoyance at the situation grows]

If what Ratcrawler said about racial things is true, it'll be trully ironic considering what the X-men is about. "Sorry son, you just aren't minority enough. *trade words* Oh yes I know you're supposed to be a mutant - the ultimate minority, but still...you're too white." [Ions is amused again]

 

[X-Maniac]

But it's ok when you do it? Aye? Because that's all you're peddling, your own 'tainted' view. If what Batman has said can be viewed as tainted by you, then your own posts can be too.
He didn't jump to anything from anything. X-men 3 was left in limbo for years before Fox got around to making the project and making sure they released X-3 before Superman Returns. While Sony was busy keeping production of one Spider-man movie to the next going and signing things long before filming comes along. Fox sits around umming and arring unwilling to sign people to the project before, with nearly a year to go they decide at the last minute to get things going. Sony deserves all the success and profit Spider-man gives them. They earn it.
That's why Singer left, Fox didn't wanna sign contracts, or anything. A big insult really, 2 successful movies and they won't even sign him on the project and let him start pre-production.
Marsden's choice... to work rather than hang around doing nothing waiting for Fox to suddenly decide to get the 3rd X-men movie in production. Unlike SR, X-men 3 hasn't had long pre-production(pre-production isn't happening without a director!). And it's also pretty clear he's working on SR to work with a friend that is Bryan Singer. Much like other actors in the past have stuck to one director when both the director and actor like to work with each other.
You act like there was some attempt by Marsden to snub X-men. And the only reason there is any rivalry is from Fox, seriously. Getting a movie together and in theatres within 1 year isn't a 'good' movie making decision. SR has been in pre-production for months before they started filming months back. Fox is rushing to beat it to the theatres(look how late they signed a director). If anyones challenging anyone its Fox. SR isn't rushing to meet its release date. SR's release date is after what could of been an easy date to release to by X-3. But Fox again dragged their ass and let the time roll on. If Superman Returns kicks X-3's ass, Fox deserves it.
He had moments? Which were these? The mourning of Jean at the end of X-2? Yeah a tad late to develop a character at that point, especially since he was absent for most of the movie. Pyro had as much attention. The scripts of both movies had more stuff for Cyclops to do, Fox(and producers) in their infernal wisdom decided to cut that stuff. So it's not like the director and his production staff were opposed to Cyclops. Fact is in fantasy that movies and books and all the mediums represent, any character can be made interesting. The idea that somehow Cyclops is a blackhole from which no good character development may come is ludicrous.
We don't know anything, except one draft of the film from a few months back that may have been the one Vaughn helped write. We can safely assume the basic action of the early script review is gone(Angel's father was a main villain, hes clearly not one now). They'd be stupid to continue on with the same dramatic elements now people already know. If any deaths remain its to clear some of the non-returning cast out in dramatic fashion.
And as already stated, that script was written when it was in doubt whether Marsden would be able to even get out of SR production to be there for X-3's since they had started production on X-3 so last minute. Singer didn't want Marsden to suffer so he reordered filming so Marsden would be able to be there for most of the X-3 shoot. You seem to be oblivious to just how late in the game Fox decided this film was gonna get made. 1 year away from release and they hadn't even signed on a director. The most important person for a film. Singer left when they wouldn't sign him, Marsden signed on to Singer's film since X-men 3 hadn't even started production at that point.
And seeing how much Singer likes Marsden(going out of his way to give him a good role in SR), you ascertain just how much Fox had to do with how Cyclops has being treated thus far in X-men. It might be as Ratcrawler is saying in the post above mine. He's too 'white' to be given focus.

If Cyclops is killed off it's to punish him for working with Singer again on a different superhero movie. Which would only prove the opinions of many who think Fox and Tom Rothman are petty and belligerent. [Ions isn't amused after writing such a long post]
Come on Lucy, make a funny so I can get amused again!

Hmmmm...well, you are off beam here. I don't regard my views on this as tainted - I neither intensely love nor intensely hate the character, I have no axe to grind, I was trying to analyse what they might be doing so that people might see beyond their own obsessions and come to a greater understanding.

You misinterpret me - over and over. When I said Marsden jumped to Superman, I didn't say he jumped FROM anything. I meant that he jumped at the chance to do something concrete when nothing about X3 was concrete at that time. But I guess he did jump FROM the uncertainty that meant he was unsure what was going on with X3, and he made a business decision to accept the Superman offer. No one is any doubt that Fox has not organised this very well. We cannot change that. No one can blame Marsden for getting on board the Superman project, although at the time this happened we did know that at some point there would be an X3 that was very likely to feature the Phoenix saga that was foreshadowed in X2 and, thus, also likely to give Cyclops some key scenes. Didn't Singer also meet Famke and Shawn Ashmore at around the same time? That must have been with a view to offering roles in Superman. They chose to stay with the (then) uncertain, but very possible, X3.

Furthermore, you now exonerate Singer from any of the failings of the Cyclops character in X1 and X2, but he must shoulder some blame. As director he has more than a little say in what happens. Singer was the one who focussed on Wolverine, which has had a direct impact on the Cyclops role. I think Singer realised - and Marsden realised - that Superman would give Marsden a greater chance to shine than in an ensemble X-Men movie.

If Marsden is being penalised for a part in Superman, what can be done about it? Nothing. The die has been cast. It would seem bizarre - but not out of the question - to see Marsden in two large supporting roles in superhero movies that are being portrayed as rivals for next summer's top slot.

I don't think the racial issue is valid. Although Hollywood is always keen on good ethnic representation in movies and the X-men can't all be portrayed as Causasian hunks/supermodels, I don't think this is the factor here. It's not a 'Halle or James'/'black woman or white man' situation. Storm's portrayal has raised a huge number of complaints and Singer was neither keen on the character nor sure how to handle Halle (he has said so), so this is something they are addressing. There has not been the same clamour over Cyclops. His alleged death has sparked a lot of criticism, but other than that there has not been a huge outcry over the portrayal of the character at all. Any outcry should have happened long before Marsden decided to take a part in Superman and long before they decided - possibly - to kill the Cyclops character. It's a bit late in the day to scream and stamp feet now.

 

[Timstuff]

It probably is too late to change anything at this point, which is why I hope the change was already made. Avi Arad and his cronies clearly saw that their was a backlash about Cyclops' death, so either they changed it or their going to be mooning us after they've tricked us out of our $10. Marvel knows how ugly things will get if they kill off Cyclops in X3, so they've had plenty of warning and no-excuses if the fans scream bloody murder at them for not listening to valid complaints.

They'd better not kill Cyclops, or else Rothman can join the unhappy ranks of the houseless. I've got plenty of gas and matches, all I need is the camoflauge clothes and a ticket to California...

 

[X-Maniac]

It probably is too late to change anything at this point, which is why I hope the change was already made. Avi Arad and his cronies clearly saw that their was a backlash about Cyclops' death, so either they changed it or their going to be mooning us after they've tricked us out of our $10. Marvel knows how ugly things will get if they kill off Cyclops in X3, so they've had plenty of warning and no-excuses if the fans scream bloody murder at them for not listening to valid complaints.

They'd better not kill Cyclops, or else Rothman can join the unhappy ranks of the houseless. I've got plenty of gas and matches, all I need is the camoflauge clothes and a ticket to California...

Your behaviour is disturbing to say the least. However evil Rothman may or may not be, he is not directly to blame for this. James Marsden made up his own mind to star in Superman Returns (while Famke and Shawn Ashmore, who were also offered parts in Superman, made up their mind to wait for X3 instead). Bryan Singer did not give Cyclops the appropriate weight in X1 and X2.

I would be very wary about psychotically singling out one individual and blaming them for this. Regrettably, that can be a very typical (and often typically American) attitude in finding a black-and-white answer and one individual as the cause of all evil. I would also be very wary about making serious public threats.

You very much need to question how seriously you are taking this. None of the actors in X3 is likely to appear in an X-movie again, so you won't be missing anything. Cyclops is just bowing out in a more final way, although X3 will no doubt be final for most of the characters as any future movie is likely to have an all-new cast, because the teenage actors will no longer be teenagers and other stars will have aged, retired, may even have died. Don't get so hung up on this. It's childish and disturbing.

 

[Octoberist]

X Maniac does have a point...kinda. Marsden DID make that decision to be in Singer's Superman (in whom I felt that Richard White could of been played by anyone). And also, if Cykes dies, it's because of the scheduling conflict too, not just b/c of Rothman.

But I do feel like Rothman did play a role here. He's very controlling and has a bad reputation, from what I know.

 

[aaron]

yeah, alex proyas said he wouldnt do x-men 3 because rothman was there

he said he wouldnt do another movie for fox until rothman was no longer in control