Official Cyclops/marsden Thread

[Bastila]

'Just thought it was appropriate here.

that is sooooo much better then it was , well done i love it.

 

[ntcrawler]

Guys don't really change too too much in their look I don't think...so even in a couple of years if they brought back Cyke I think Marsden would still be an appropriate choice.

Yeah, exactly! You'd just end up with an older, more mature looking Cyclops like in some of the later issues such as Endsong.

 

[Avalanche]

Yes Jean is dead, but they didn't show Cyke die so there is still hope, don't worry man.

But the Professor sensed it, and Jean later recalled it. He died off-screen because they wanted to show the Phoenix at her full potential at the mid point of the film. Showing it too early on would have ruined the build up. He didn't die off-screen to save the character. Penn and Kinberg have both stated he is dead.

 

[CapBeerCino]

Penn and Kinberg have both stated he is dead.

Well in that case it must be set in stone. They had no control over their own script, much less over the next x-movie/ spin-off/ whatever.

But it's good having you back with us Avalanche. No one tried stirring up argument in this thread for a while now.

 

[triplefive]

Sorry if I missed anyone talking about this, but has anyone seen 10th and Wolf yet?

 

[ntcrawler]

But the Professor sensed it, and Jean later recalled it. He died off-screen because they wanted to show the Phoenix at her full potential at the mid point of the film. Showing it too early on would have ruined the build up. He didn't die off-screen to save the character. Penn and Kinberg have both stated he is dead.

Professor did not sense Scott die but that something was wrong. Jean did not openly admit to killing him. Her recollections were based on a cosfusing set of images flashing by and due to Logan asking what happened to him. Later on Xavier pushes that thought into her at the Grey house without any explanation of how he reached that conclusion. If they wanted Scott to die onscreen, there are plenty of ways to show it. I'm sorry but the excuse that they did not want to spoil the special effects for the audience too early is just plain ridiculous. Either you show it, or you don't. As for Penn and Kinberg, they can huff and puff all they want about Scott being dead but the end result is not what we got. Ratner and Marsden both admitted that Scott's final fate was not shown and kept vague on purpose to keep things open and to make it possible for Cyclops to return. And that's the final verdict, the one that actually carries the weight. Not a writer's written fantasy, but the actual end result that was presented in the film.

 

[Hulkster]

Great answer ntcrawler.

 

[ntcrawler]

Great answer ntcrawler.

He'll be back my friend. We'll see Slym again. Don't let anyone discourage you

 

[Hulkster]

Thanks ntcrawler.

 

[Radagast_Prime]

'Just thought it was appropriate here.

Well done.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Question 11: There has been an obvious concern among fans of Cyclops after rumors spread about his possible death. How do you react to the fans worries and these rumors? Do you have any words for the concerned? (Asked by: Original Bamfer)

A: As for rumors about Cyclops' death in the film, that would be a spoiler and I cannot comment on that. You'll just have to wait to see the movie. I get this question a lot, and death is relative in the X-Men universe.

Nothing is forever in the Marvel world. At the end of the last X-Men, from what I saw, Jean Grey had died. But she happened to be back on the set on the first day of shooting "X-Men: The Last Stand", so you never know...

This was from XMF's interview conducted before X3 came out... I think this may ease the "is he really dead?" questions that we Cyclops Fans have.

 

[triplefive]

Bamfer, that's awesome! Well done, indeed.

ETA: meant the manip

 

[ntcrawler]

This was from XMF's interview conducted before X3 came out... I think this may ease the "is he really dead?" questions that we Cyclops Fans have.

Yeah! Take THAT, Penn and Kinberg!

 

[Avalanche]

Well in that case it must be set in stone. They had no control over their own script, much less over the next x-movie/ spin-off/ whatever.

But it's good having you back with us Avalanche. No one tried stirring up argument in this thread for a while now.

I'm not trying to start an argument. I'm just disagreeing with the general feel in this thread that Cyclops is alive and well. There was nothing to suggest this was the case, whilst there was a whole lot to suggest that he was dead.

Aside from that, FOX have never treated Cyclops with much respect. Why do the fans think this will suddenly change?

 

[Avalanche]

Professor did not sense Scott die but that something was wrong. Jean did not openly admit to killing him. Her recollections were based on a cosfusing set of images flashing by and due to Logan asking what happened to him.

She stated something along the lines of 'kill me, before I kill someone else'. Cyclops was the only person present since her rise. We can presume she was refering to him.

The shattering of Cyclop's glasses was symbolic as to what happened to Cyclops.

Later on Xavier pushes that thought into her at the Grey house without any explanation of how he reached that conclusion.

Well, Wolverine claimed 'I think she killed Scott', which is a starting point for drawing a conclusion I should think, combined with the fact the Professor felt something awful.

I'm sorry but the excuse that they did not want to spoil the special effects for the audience too early is just plain ridiculous. Either you show it, or you don't.

It isn't plain ridiculous. Certain effects are saved for impact. Films want a central point in the movie that wows. Had we seen Jean go all Phoenix on Cyclops early on, the central sequence with Xavier would have lost some of its impact.

As for Penn and Kinberg, they can huff and puff all they want about Scott being dead but the end result is not what we got. Ratner and Marsden both admitted that Scott's final fate was not shown and kept vague on purpose to keep things open and to make it possible for Cyclops to return. And that's the final verdict, the one that actually carries the weight. Not a writer's written fantasy, but the actual end result that was presented in the film.

The final verdict? I don't know about you, but I saw a gravestone with Scott's name on. That seemed pretty final verdict to me too.

I'm not saying it isn't possible to bring Scott back in a future movie. I'm sure some ridiculously contrived reasoning can be brought up discussing how everything that we thought happened in the movie didn't really happen. But then, that would be riciculously contrived. To have Cyclops escape death after both the Professor and Jean have escaped it once before seems like one escaped death too many.

I realise though, as Cyclops fans, you need to keep some faint hope that he'll be present in a future movie, so it is a little pointless discussing this with you.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

She stated something along the lines of 'kill me, before I kill someone else'. Cyclops was the only person present since her rise. We can presume she was refering to him.

The shattering of Cyclop's glasses was symbolic as to what happened to Cyclops.


Well, Wolverine claimed 'I think she killed Scott', which is a starting point for drawing a conclusion I should think, combined with the fact the Professor felt something awful.


It isn't plain ridiculous. Certain effects are saved for impact. Films want a central point in the movie that wows. Had we seen Jean go all Phoenix on Cyclops early on, the central sequence with Xavier would have lost some of its impact.


The final verdict? I don't know about you, but I saw a gravestone with Scott's name on. That seemed pretty final verdict to me too.

I'm not saying it isn't possible to bring Scott back in a future movie. I'm sure some ridiculously contrived reasoning can be brought up discussing how everything that we thought happened in the movie didn't really happen. But then, that would be riciculously contrived. To have Cyclops escape death after both the Professor and Jean have escaped it once before seems like one escaped death too many.

I realise though, as Cyclops fans, you need to keep some faint hope that he'll be present in a future movie, so it is a little pointless discussing this with you.

Just because a gravestone is there doesn't mean the person is dead either.

Believe it or not some tombs are used for a memorial of some sort, even when the body isn't found. In this case Marsden himself said that they left it open for him to return, so guess what? I think his word count a lot more than your opinion will count towards.

The only thing that is really stupid is that they went through great lengths to show Xavier dying, and yet, he gets to come back in the end? Yet Cyclops fate is never determined nor is it shown, and he doesn't get an alternate ending?

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Cyclops deserved a nod at the ending... but some of the "deaths" deserve validation... at least in this movie. I would have rather Cyke had the extra scene explaining he's alive - and just keep Xavier dead. Like the Cure, though, these deaths can't be a waste. And they would be if each character that died came back in the same movie.

It was the more obvious option to show Xavier because, well, what he did was foreshadowed and within his powers. Scott living would take a bit more of an explanation. I do think it'd extremely acceptable for them to explain his survival in X4 or a Spin-Off. I think that's their plan.

 

[ntcrawler]

I realise though, as Cyclops fans, you need to keep some faint hope that he'll be present in a future movie, so it is a little pointless discussing this with you.

If Cyclops had actually been shown to croak, and his remains tossed into a casket and buried, then we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place. People would still be angry, but then people like you would get to have the final, conslusive word.

But the fact that we never do see what happens to him, that there isn't any evidence as to what happened to him, the fact that people ASSUME he's dead because... well... Jean obviously disintegrated him, and the fact that his grave is empty, indicates that his fate is not final.

Then again, even seeing a body explode isn't conclusive evidence that the person is dead and will stay dead, as Xavier demonstrated. So what's so cheesy about showing that Cyclops was blasted into the woods and after groping blindly trying to find his way out, was picked up by hikers or park service personnel?


And I consider the shattering of Cyclops' glasses to be symbolic of Jean screaming "NO!!!" when it's suggested that she may have killed him. Especially when the images she sees flashing in her scrambled memory are inconclusive and just as vague. She was definitely a few tacos short of a family pack at that point. Definitely not the right state of mind you want a person to be in in order to rationally discuss with and recall what had happened.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

She was definitely a few tacos short of a family pack at that point.

 

[Avalanche]

Like I say, I'm not saying Cyclops won't be back for a furture movie. The fact we never actually see him die does leave it open.

I do think however that X3 intends Cyclops as dead. A later movie might come and change that, but X3 still intends him dead. Given the lack of love FOX have shown Cyclops in the past, I see no reason for them to go out on a limb to explain how he didn't really die in X3 after all etc. They'll likely leave him dead.

 

[ntcrawler]

Like I say, I'm not saying Cyclops won't be back for a furture movie. The fact we never actually see him die does leave it open.

I understand. And I agree.

I do think however that X3 intends Cyclops as dead. A later movie might come and change that, but X3 still intends him dead.

Oh I agree with that. If FOX had the opportunity to show Cyclops' death being the result of a random drive-by shooting or the poor victim of a terrible highway accident on his motorcycle, they would have done so too.

My point was that, Penn and Kinberg can scream all they want, they can throw a tantrum in public and bang trash can lids together screaming "CYCLOPS IS DEAD! CYCLOPS IS DEAD" but that's not clearly what was shown in the movie. It was purposely done vaguely enough so that they can't claim to be righteous or have the final word on the matter.

 

[Bishop2]

Like I say, I'm not saying Cyclops won't be back for a furture movie. The fact we never actually see him die does leave it open.

I do think however that X3 intends Cyclops as dead. A later movie might come and change that, but X3 still intends him dead.

That seems clear to me as well. However, everything we've read indicates that they DID render the scene of him disintegrating and then... didn't use the effect in the movie. Now, maybe there are many reasons for that - maybe they just thought it looked lame - but maybe they did indeed want to leave a door open for bringing him back, just in case that would one day prove advantageous to them.

 

[CapBeerCino]

Penn and Kinberg can scream all they want, they can throw a tantrum in public and bang trash can lids together screaming "CYCLOPS IS DEAD! CYCLOPS IS DEAD"

Now that would be a nice DVD extra

 

[Verlin]

Ugh, makes me sick:

 

[MaleRogue]

AAAH again a ****ty cover I HATE ALL COVER
I want Rogue, Bobby, Kitty, Colossus and Scott on it....
No Mystique Angel or prof X