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Rise of the Silver Surfer Official: Fantastic Four 2 Novelization Discussion MAJOR SPOILERS!

I don't have a problem with that. The board itself has to have some phenomenal properties itself or why does the Surfer use it?? Have you ever seen a story with him flying without it?
And as I pointed out once before, even Lee and Kirby used it to symbolize the transference of power back to the Surfer after Doom stole it. So despite your views, that concept isn't really as far off the mark as you assert.

FF60ending.jpg

Come now. It's never been presented that the board is THE SOURCE of the power. The Surfer is. His board returning to him at the end of FF #60 is just that- it's returning to HIM. Not of its own accord- but due to it homing in on its MASTER, not its servant. It's the same principal that Stan & Jack used with Thor's hammer mjolnir always returning to him.

A perfect example is when in Thor #193 when the board was crushed by Durok. It didn't reform itself. The Surfer reformed it.

Why do you people feel you have to make excuses for these morons?
 
damn! walmart for not treating every store and town equal

You bought it from Carpy's Walmart...its the only Walmart in the world that has the F4 novelization.....
 
Come now. It's never been presented that the board is THE SOURCE of the power. The Surfer is. His board returning to him at the end of FF #60 is just that- it's returning to HIM. Not of its own accord- but due to it homing in on its MASTER, not its servant. It's the same principal that Stan & Jack used with Thor's hammer mjolnir always returning to him.

A perfect example is when in Thor #193 when the board was crushed by Durok. It didn't reform itself. The Surfer reformed it.

Why do you people feel you have to make excuses for these morons?

A better question to my mind is "Why do you care that much?"

I don't care if they say that the Surfer is all powerful in and of himself because Galactus gave his body the power cosmic, or if they say that his board contains the power cosmic. NOT important at all.

I care about the characters. I care about them jacking up Doom like the first time. But c'mon, the board being the source of his power? Once we're complaining about something like that, we might as well start worrying about hairstyles.
 
A better question to my mind is "Why do you care that much?"

I don't care if they say that the Surfer is all powerful in and of himself because Galactus gave his body the power cosmic, or if they say that his board contains the power cosmic. NOT important at all.

I care about the characters. I care about them jacking up Doom like the first time. But c'mon, the board being the source of his power? Once we're complaining about something like that, we might as well start worrying about hairstyles.


Theres already a thread on that.....:o :dry:
 
A better question to my mind is "Why do you care that much?"

I don't care if they say that the Surfer is all powerful in and of himself because Galactus gave his body the power cosmic, or if they say that his board contains the power cosmic. NOT important at all.

I care about the characters. I care about them jacking up Doom like the first time. But c'mon, the board being the source of his power? Once we're complaining about something like that, we might as well start worrying about hairstyles.

Exactly.... this is akin to the organic web vs the web shooters in the Spidey films. The difference is not worth splitting hairs over. And as I said in my original post, the board itself has properties of its own or why would the Surfer even use it? He could just fly around like Superman does. If I were a scientist, I know I'd want to get my hands on it for analysis.

Oh, and I love your signature, Bishop2. Another Civil War fan, ehhh? (she says with sarcasm)
 
Judging from the few spoilers and posts i have read, i was right not to get my hopes up for this movie.
 
A better question to my mind is "Why do you care that much?"

I don't care if they say that the Surfer is all powerful in and of himself because Galactus gave his body the power cosmic, or if they say that his board contains the power cosmic. NOT important at all.

I care about the characters. I care about them jacking up Doom like the first time. But c'mon, the board being the source of his power? Once we're complaining about something like that, we might as well start worrying about hairstyles.

How silly. Of course it matters. Just as Doom was changed AS A CHARACTER by his powers being organically based as opposed to his being an armor-wearing mechanized villain.

And if it didnt matter, they wouldnt have changed the concept to begin with. If these dolts were at all skilled in the handling of the characters (which you're so concerned about) the board wouldnt need to be the source of his powers and Galactus would be more than a purple cloud of talking gas.

The board being the power source is merely a simplification so they don't have to THINK of a reason for the powers to be transferred to Doom, but beg the question of why advanced beings such as the surfer and Galactus would make such awesome power so vulnerable.
 
Exactly.... this is akin to the organic web vs the web shooters in the Spidey films.

Funny you should mention that, as this did prove to be one of the weakest areas of the Spidey movies. This is represented by the overall simplification of Peter as a character; such as the idea of his choosing not to get invovled with MJ because she might be endangered by his lifestyle- even though she's constantly endangered anyway.

The difference is not worth splitting hairs over. And as I said in my original post, the board itself has properties of its own or why would the Surfer even use it? He could just fly around like Superman does.

You kind of just answered your own question. it's his unique mode of travel. The Surfer can defy gravity, but he needs a mode of propulsion- and the board is it. There actually is no reasonable explanation for Superman's ability to fly and travel at such great speed- but there is for the Surfer.

If I were a scientist, I know I'd want to get my hands on it for analysis.

But then- this is WHY the board isn't the power source. It's an inanimate object. Someone with Galactus' wisdom would only put the power cosimic in the hands of a SENTIENT, INTELLIGENT being. What would you do?
 
The first movie was so bad this one could be a 500% improvement and still suck...
 
Funny you should mention that, as this did prove to be one of the weakest areas of the Spidey movies. This is represented by the overall simplification of Peter as a character; such as the idea of his choosing not to get invovled with MJ because she might be endangered by his lifestyle- even though she's constantly endangered anyway.

You would really have preferred that Peter develop a "miracle substance" just like in the comic?
I agree somewhat about the oversimplification of Peter as a character, but I think organic web fluid is one of the precious few positive changes ever made in a superhero adaptation.
And I was one of those who railed the most loudly against it.
 
You would really have preferred that Peter develop a "miracle substance" just like in the comic?
I agree somewhat about the oversimplification of Peter as a character, but I think organic web fluid is one of the precious few positive changes ever made in a superhero adaptation.
And I was one of those who railed the most loudly against it.

Absolutely. Not one person walking into a film about a guy who climbs walls after a spider-bite would blink if he developed web-fluid, anymore then they spent time wondering how his body could generate this same miracle fluid.

But it would've served to make Peter a more interesting character to show him to be a creative thinker. And geez- in Spidey 2 they have him out-thinking Ock, am man with many more years experience in anticipating the failure of his reactor.

Yes, of course I love the Spidey movies. But they could have been better if Peter were more of a force and less of a passive participant in the events.
 
Not one person walking into a film about a guy who climbs walls after a spider-bite would blink if he developed web-fluid, anymore then they spent time wondering how his body could generate this same miracle fluid.
Not one?
Okay, then.
 
Funny you should mention that, as this did prove to be one of the weakest areas of the Spidey movies. This is represented by the overall simplification of Peter as a character; such as the idea of his choosing not to get invovled with MJ because she might be endangered by his lifestyle- even though she's constantly endangered anyway.?

But that one change, the organic webbing, didn't detract from my enjoyment of the movie.

You kind of just answered your own question. it's his unique mode of travel. The Surfer can defy gravity, but he needs a mode of propulsion- and the board is it. There actually is no reasonable explanation for Superman's ability to fly and travel at such great speed- but there is for the Surfer....
But then- this is WHY the board isn't the power source. It's an inanimate object. Someone with Galactus' wisdom would only put the power cosimic in the hands of a SENTIENT, INTELLIGENT being. What would you do?

Hmmmm... maybe we've hatched a new catch phrase. WWGD... What Would Galactus Do? Welllllll.... Galactus and his Infinite Wisdom didn't prevent Doom from getting his hands on the Power Cosmic now, did it? I understand what you are saying, by entrusting the power to Norrin, he is sort of safeguarding the galaxy from its potential misuse . But the again he gave the power to a ruthless tyrant, Tyros AKA Terrax who at one point was consumed by it (FF#260 but he has since been brought back)

Mjlojinor... gaaah.. I can spell today... is a token of the power of the Thunder God and in its earliest incarnation, Thor was powerless after being separated from it after 60 seconds, so the power lay within whoever was deemed worthy of possessing it. Doom wasn't worthy (although he may argue with you about that) and still could wield the Power Cosmic and use the board. Stan and Jack were vague about just what the board could do on its volition and you could make a strong argument that it does act on its own from the panel I used as an example.
 
Not one?
Okay, then.

Well, if you want to split that hair- certainly no more than would have a problem with Peter overnight generating a whole new system of internal organs. The point is, that both fantasy concepts can be overlooked if the film is good. There were tons of complaints about the look of the Green Goblin, but that was forgiven also.

And shall we go down the list of hit films with improbable inventions that ultimately nobody cared about? Why is it Doc Brown could invent a time machine and not the US military or NASA? Wouldn't law enforcement have use for hi-speed, battle ready vehicles like the Batmobile?

And who says Peter had to be the only person to invent the webfluid? He could in fact have gotten the formula or been inspired from somewhere else. He's simply the only one to use the fluid in the manner he does.
 
But that one change, the organic webbing, didn't detract from my enjoyment of the movie.

Mine either. it doesn't change the fact that it would've been BETTER (By making Peter a stronger character) to have him develop the fluid.

Hmmmm... maybe we've hatched a new catch phrase. WWGD... What Would Galactus Do? Welllllll.... Galactus and his Infinite Wisdom didn't prevent Doom from getting his hands on the Power Cosmic now, did it?

Yeah.. But in the Lee-Kirby version, Doom took the power from the naive Surfer who's power was limited. Not the freshly arrived Surfer with near unlimited power as in the movie. Let's note that the FF figured a way to remove the power from Doom. So it clearly wasn't omnipotent. And moreover Galactus did safeguard against the power escaping the Earth, thus the barrier.

I understand what you are saying, by entrusting the power to Norrin, he is sort of safeguarding the galaxy from its potential misuse . But the again he gave the power to a ruthless tyrant, Tyros AKA Terrax who at one point was consumed by it (FF#260 but he has since been brought back)

Well I guess that's Galactus learning from his mistake with the Surfer. By giving the power to a more ruthless Herald, he didn't have to worry about him being soft-touched into abandoning Galactus' cause. As long as Galactus himself wasn't vulnerable to Tyros/Terrax, it didn't matter. And regardless, Tyros/ The Surfer/ Firelord all could defend the power in a way that a lifeless object such as the board couldn't.

Mjlojinor... gaaah.. I can spell today... is a token of the power of the Thunder God and in its earliest incarnation, Thor was powerless after being separated from it after 60 seconds, so the power lay within whoever was deemed worthy of possessing it. Doom wasn't worthy (although he may argue with you about that) and still could wield the Power Cosmic and use the board.

There's an excellent story in Thor #191-194 where Loki steals the Odin ring, which gives him power over all of Asgard, including Odin himself (The story coincidentally features an appearance by the Surfer). Thor of course chooses to fight Loki, and is ultimatley beaten. But- Loki then finds himself dying- because the lesson learned is that the ring is a power focal point and doesn't give power, but in fact takes it.

I don't think its a reach to say that eventually Doom's human body would have begun to fail as he attempted a prolonged wielding of cosmic power. But of course, the FF couldn't wait that long, as Doom was trying to kill them.

There's a different set of circumstance with Mjolnir although a similar principle.

One is that Stan eventually explained that Don Blake was actually the original Thor and Odin set about the scenario in which he'd regain the hammer. Walt Simonson- (And I discussed this with him) Wasn't really aware of that when he utilized the "If he be worthy" loophole. For Stan, "If He Be Worthy" really only applied to Don Blake- meaning that he/Thor had to prove his worthiness of regaining the hammer, which at that point, he had.

Stan and Jack were vague about just what the board could do on its volition and you could make a strong argument that it does act on its own from the panel I used as an example.

Were they? In the comics, Doom removes the power from the Surfer. Not the board. Doom is in the context of the story separated from the board numerous times with no loss of power. And the whole concept makes no sense in that if the power were from the board, why wouldn't the Surfer simply summon it back to him? In order for the board to manifest the power it would have to have some type of homing signal- reading the Surfer's genetic make-up or whatever to know to serve him. How could Doom duplicate or manipulate that?

But if the surfer is the source of the power, and the board merely a vessel of that power, it makes sense that Doom could simply draw the power off of the Surfer and command the board.
 
Just got the novel. On page 80. Thus far, it's very good... starts off slow, but then it heats up. Really cool.
Can't wait to see the nightclub scene- lmaol! When Reed let's go, he really goes crazy!
The humor seems, to me, a lot more smart than the first film. Getting that Simpsons writer did the trick.

There was only one thing that caught me off guard as a Johnny Storm fan,
I didn't really like his rant in the Fantastic Four store. Made him seem like a managerial jack ass. Perhaps they'll tone that scene down for the film... I get him being upset, but causing a scene like that and punching a Thing toy in anger? Just doesn't seem Johnny Storm... at least to me.

Edit: Just adding some spoiler tags Tempest.....thanks for your synopsis.....:cwink:

Kel
 
...Has anybody thought about this:
What if the book is a red haring? I mean Tim says no one knows what he'll look like which doesn't make sense because the book describes it pretty well :D

What if all the Galactus stuff was just in there to throws us off and then when AICN said Fishbourne was Galactus they had to cover there tracks and say he is the Surfer.
 
...Has anybody thought about this:
What if the book is a red haring? I mean Tim says no one knows what he'll look like which doesn't make sense because the book describes it pretty well :D

What if all the Galactus stuff was just in there to throws us off and then when AICN said Fishbourne was Galactus they had to cover there tracks and say he is the Surfer.


Is it possible that the book is only a skeleton of what will happen......????


Possibly....


Did they choose Fishbourn to cover their tracks.....


Highly doubtful....
 

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