Official Justice League Status Update Thread

[MadVillainy]

With some actors yes. But Bale seems like one of those actors who wouldnt do things just for money. He seems like he'll do it if the character is "interesting"

 

[Brian Braddock]

Bale did terminator and reign of fire... I'm sure if they signed the right cheque he would do it.

That's not a viewpoint that I happen to share.

In terms of those films, Bale's stated that he signed up for them because the premise was interesting to him [Reign of Fire] and he felt the Jonah Nolan script [Terminator:Salvation] was very good.

Anyway, he's fallable just like every other actor is when picking a project; No actor has a 100% success rate at being able to judge how a film will turn out based solely of a script. How the film turn out is something out of Bale's control, by and large, all he can do is show up and deliver a performance - what happens in post is out of his hands.

To suggest that Bale did those movies purely for the $$$$ just because, with the benefit of hindsight, they didnt turn out as well as was hoped is way off the mark, in my mind.

I'm sure Bale went into those projects thinking they had potential.

 

[Orin]

I do, give an actor a big enough pay check and they'll do whatever

You can't throw countless money at one actor. If you do that, the other stars want big pay checks too. Besides, a Justice League movie would be expensive enough without having half of the budget go away on the cast. There are much more important things that shouldn't be done cheap and enough other skilled actors that would love to get roles like that. Like i said before, Christian Bale sure isn't the only guy capable of playing (a good) Batman and not even nececary the best. And a Justice League movie would require another completely take on the character anway. It's just a question of not being so close minded about it. No matter how successful the movie he starred in was, a character like Batman will alway be much bigger than just one actor.

 

[Timstuff]

Not really. It's the same character, and if there's an implied (or even direct) connection between Batman in the JL movie and BB and TDK, wouldn't it make sense to use the same actor for consistency's sake?

 

[Infinity9999x]

Not really. It's the same character, and if there's an implied (or even direct) connection between Batman in the JL movie and BB and TDK, wouldn't it make sense to use the same actor for consistency's sake?

I certainly think it would. How is Bale's Batman going to be able to fight any sort of threat that's big enough that the entire league would need to handle it?

Bale's Bats hasn't been shown to have the genius level (and in some cases in the comics almost ridiculous level) "prep-time" skills.

Though honestly, I've never thought the character of Batman fits within the Justice League at all, and I've always been annoyed when writers try to have him fight superman type villains without being in some sort of robotic supersuit, because it just comes off as silly.

 

[MadVillainy]

I think Batman can fit in general, I'm just not so sure about Nolan's Batman. I mean Nolan and Bale (i think) went on record saying Nolanverse Batman doesnt fit with other heroes because it's set in realism but then again IM was set in "realism" and hes gonna meet Thor so idk.

If Nolan really doesnt want his version of Batman to be in a JL film so be it I guess.

 

[Webhead2006]

This will always be an endless debate.

 

[Venom'sDad]

I certainly think it would. How is Bale's Batman going to be able to fight any sort of threat that's big enough that the entire league would need to handle it?

I think that's where Lucious and his technology comes in..... and a little of his intellectual analysis and strategy.

 

[Orin]

Not really. It's the same character, and if there's an implied (or even direct) connection between Batman in the JL movie and BB and TDK, wouldn't it make sense to use the same actor for consistency's sake?

Even Nolan himself said that in his world there are no super-powered heroes. So that take on the character certainly wouldn't fit the context of a Justice League movie. There are simply alot of aspects of Batman from the comics that were blended out in the Nolan movies to create the kind of adaption they did there. And that apects are pretty much what make him suitable for the bigger, more fantastic DCU. So no, it wouldn't be the same character, only the same name. And i'd almost guarantee that there won't ever be a Justice League movie that is connected to BB/TDK or uses the Batman from that universe.

Which dosn't mean they shouldn't use Batman for a JLA flick. Cause, no matter what some people might prefer, as much as the grounded storys, where he's fighting street crimes ARE Batman do those other, more fantastic storys, that feature the character, have their legitimation. Same thing with the grim & gritty and lighter take. Just a matter of opinion. Personally i always thought the key was finding the right balance, instead of just going into one direction, which is why i'm not THAT big on the Nolan movies, as good as they might be.

 

[Webhead2006]

Well like many have said if gl is good/hex/if a flash/ww film can happen and a new superman reboot they can try and say they are all in BB/TDK world and these characters just didnt pop up untill post 2005 timeline. It could all work out. But who knows if and when we will ever see a justice league film and if it will or will not have batman/superman in the lineup.

 

[Timstuff]

Just because the BB version of Bruce Wayne doesn't have a Lex Luthor-scale intellect doesn't mean he wouldn't fit in a Justice League movie. And though as Nolan said there aren't any superhumans in the BB / TDK-verse, that could simply be interpreted as there not being any yet. If there was going to be a comprehensive DC movie-verse, then they could simply have Batman chronologically be the first superhero to appear within it. Having the Christian Bale Batman appear in a Justice League movie would not strip the realism away from the Nolan Batman movies, because if you want to watch those under the believe that his world has no superhumans, then you can just opt not to watch Justice League.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Even Nolan himself said that in his world there are no super-powered heroes. So that take on the character certainly wouldn't fit the context of a Justice League movie. There are simply alot of aspects of Batman from the comics that were blended out in the Nolan movies to create the kind of adaption they did there. And that apects are pretty much what make him suitable for the bigger, more fantastic DCU. So no, it wouldn't be the same character, only the same name. And i'd almost guarantee that there won't ever be a Justice League movie that is connected to BB/TDK or uses the Batman from that universe.

Which dosn't mean they shouldn't use Batman for a JLA flick. Cause, no matter what some people might prefer, as much as the grounded storys, where he's fighting street crimes ARE Batman do those other, more fantastic storys, that feature the character, have their legitimation. Same thing with the grim & gritty and lighter take. Just a matter of opinion. Personally i always thought the key was finding the right balance, instead of just going into one direction, which is why i'm not THAT big on the Nolan movies, as good as they might be.

I certainly see that point, and I think the best way to do the JLA style Batman would be to model him after the Batman of the B:TAS. That had the right blend of fantasy/realism for him to fit in the JLA.

I don't mind Batman in the JLA, I just don't like it when they portray him being able to fight against super-powered beings without the aid of some kind of body-armor to protect him. The only time I thought it worked was in Hush, because Loeb made it very clear that, if he wasn't holding back, Supes could have crushed him in a second.

 

[Timstuff]

Who's to say that the other DC superheroes won't be set in "the real world" after a fashion too, though? You're all speaking as though Batman from Batman Begins would have to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the actual comic versions of Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, and Green Lantern, when in fact they'd all likely be meeting somewhere in the middle. Unless the expectation is that the JL movie will be noticeably cartoonier than most of the big SH movies these days, I don't see why TDK's Batman couldn't co-exist with the movie versions of the other DC heroes. It seems like saying he couldn't exist in the same world as Iron Man or something like that (well, Marvel / DC universe separation aside).

To sum up: almost all the big superheroes get toned down to degree in their transition to film, in order to make them more believable in real life. Batman is a more extreme case, but that's mostly because he lends himself well to so-called "realism" since he has no super powers. Part of what makes the begins-verse seem realistic is that there are no super humans, but if you have Batman interacting with super humans in a JL movie, does that really require Batman's character to change, or does it simply mean that he is part of a bigger world than his standalone movies could show? I'd argue it's the latter.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Who's to say that the other DC superheroes won't be set in "the real world" after a fashion too, though? You're all speaking as though Batman from Batman Begins would have to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the actual comic versions of Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, and Green Lantern, when in fact they'd all likely be meeting somewhere in the middle. Unless the expectation is that the JL movie will be noticeably cartoonier than most of the big SH movies these days, I don't see why TDK's Batman couldn't co-exist with the movie versions of the other DC heroes. It seems like saying he couldn't exist in the same world as Iron Man or something like that (well, Marvel / DC universe separation aside).

To sum up: almost all the big superheroes get toned down to degree in their transition to film, in order to make them more believable in real life. Batman is a more extreme case, but that's mostly because he lends himself well to so-called "realism" since he has no super powers. Part of what makes the begins-verse seem realistic is that there are no super humans, but if you have Batman interacting with super humans in a JL movie, does that really require Batman's character to change, or does it simply mean that he is part of a bigger world than his standalone movies could show? I'd argue it's the latter.

Even if they tone the characters down, they're still going to be much more powerful than Batman. In Superman Returns, they powered Supes down, because they showed him struggling to slow down a plane's flight, yet he's still a hundred times more powerful than Batman is. If GL ends up being anything like the script indicates, GL is also going to be incredibly more powerful than Batman. In short, even if you tone them down, they're still going to be much more powerful than Bats is.

I keep seeing a lot of people cite Iron Man as being more "realistic" in terms of tone, but I thought it had much more in the realm of fantasy than BB or TDK. Tony is flying around in a high powered body suit that can blow up a tank, fly, take heavy artillery fire, and amplify his strength. That's much more fantastical than anything in TDK or BB.

Also, they havn't established Bats as having the tactical intelligence he does in the comics. At least there, he serves as a general of sorts, issuing orders and such. However, I still think it's rather silly when I see him in the midst of battle against superpowered beings. For example, in Green Lantern: Rebirth, Batman is at the fight where Parallax takes over the Guardian. What possible purpose can he serve there, other than issuing orders? He has nothing in his arsenal that could hurt Parallax, especially when the thing is in the Guardian.

What it comes down to is this: whatever the JL fight at the end of the movie, Batman really isn't going to have much to do. Because if there is a threat big enough to command the entire attention of the JL, Batman isn't going to be able to fight it. The only way I could see it working is if he's in a fighter jet of some sort, because I honestly don't see them giving him a superpowered suit if they want to keep it in the same realm as the BB and TDK Batman, since that world doesn't seem to have technology that advanced yet.

 

[Timstuff]

Batman being underpowered compared to the rest of the JL has always been a problem. As we saw in TDK though, the movie Batman does have means of collecting information that are unconventional but highly effective. If he can turn every cellphone in Gotham into a freaking sonar emitter, he clearly has some very elaborate intel methods available to him, which does position him quite effectively to be the "general" of the JLA.

They can also give him some additional gadgets and toys to allow him to participate in the action without defying believability. As you said, an Iron Man style exo suit would be pushing it a bit even if this weren't the TDK Batman, though I agree that giving him a jet would be a good way to keep him in the action during the climax without making things seem too crazy.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Batman being underpowered compared to the rest of the JL has always been a problem. As we saw in TDK though, the movie Batman does have means of collecting information that are unconventional but highly effective. If he can turn every cellphone in Gotham into a freaking sonar emitter, he clearly has some very elaborate intel methods available to him, which does position him quite effectively to be the "general" of the JLA.

They can also give him some additional gadgets and toys to allow him to participate in the action without defying believability. As you said, an Iron Man style exo suit would be pushing it a bit even if this weren't the TDK Batman, though I agree that giving him a jet would be a good way to keep him in the action during the climax without making things seem too crazy.

I could see that working. Kind of have Bats be almost like the Orcale in terms of him being able to find info for JLA when they're investigating things, and then the Jet idea at the climax would probably be the best way to go.

On a different note, (and this goes for the Avengers too) I'm just interested to see how they'll be able to make this movie work while juggling so many big characters. A true team movie is hard to do without giving all the focus to one character (X-men anybody?) but JLA is a different case, being that it will feature many different characters. The Green Lantern movie could further complicate things if it ends up being a hit, because then the public will want Reynolds to have a big role in JLA too.

And like I said above, I feel pretty much the same with the Avengers. I think it's awesome how marvel is setting it up, but it's going to be interesting to see if they can make the Avengers movie itself work story-wise.

 

[The Guard]

Are we back to that "I'm not creative enough to figure out what has already been figured out in the comics for decades so I believe it can't work if adapted to film" nonsense?

 

[Orin]

And though as Nolan said there aren't any superhumans in the BB / TDK-verse, that could simply be interpreted as there not being any yet.

That's clearly NOT what Nolan ment when he made that comment. In fact it actually was his answer he gave when he was asked about the possibilty of his Batman interacting with other, superpowered heroes. Can't belive that still hasn't put an end to that debate. The guy created that movie, he should know what he's talking about.

Who's to say that the other DC superheroes won't be set in "the real world" after a fashion too, though?

People who want to see those characters adopted to film properly?

You're all speaking as though Batman from Batman Begins would have to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the actual comic versions of Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, and Green Lantern, when in fact they'd all likely be meeting somewhere in the middle.

Well, that's what it should be, the actual versions of the characters from the comics. Now, i'm the last one who minds changing stuff when it comes to movies. But the adaptions should always be true to the essence of the characters from the source material. And i can't see the toned down versions, that (more or less) would fit into the BB/TDK world, do that. Which sure as hell dosn't have anything to do with lack of imagination. In fact, it's more about not going all fanboy and mixing stuff up that weren't supposed to be mixed up and that no serious filmmaker would ever try to mix up.

People need to realize that Nolan's BatUniverse isn't the BatUniverse from the comics and that they've created other laws there. Which is why for expample we saw the version of Ras al Ghul they did. It's which is why they'd never do the Mr. Freeze character in the way he's portrayed in the comics. And most importantly it's why you can't say, Batman storys more grounded in his books but the character is still interacting with the rest of the more fantastic DCU. The BatUniverse we read in the comics simply is a MUCH more fantastic place than what we've been introduced to in the two Nolan movies.

But the hell with this debate, for all i know, the people at WB, who don't care about stuff like that anyway, as long as they see the possibility of making tons of cash, could still try to do a JLA movie that's part of the BB/TDK universe and throw tons of money at Bale to be part of it. Personally, i think it's highly unlikely that that's ever going to happen and if, at least Nolan wouldn never be okay with it. But i don't care, as long they at least make ANY JLA movie while i'm still around to see it.

 

[Timstuff]

Are you saying that superhero movies aren't as good if the world the hero lives in isn't just as fantastical as the character themself? Because he success of Nolan's batman movies and the Spider-Man films would say otherwise. Is the implication here that Nolan's Batman movies are unfaithful to the comics because they are less fantasy-based?

The worlds that movie superheroes inhabit are almost always different from how they are in the comics. They are a tweaked version of reality captured through a camera lense, and as a result it's easier to sell to the audience if it's more like the real world, except that the superhero and his nemesis bring fantasy into it. With Superman and Green Lantern there's the element of fantasy through the alien races, but that doesn't mean that the earth itself is depected as less real.

Really, this is not a new problem with superhero movies that needs to be solved. I think that what it really is, is that many fans are unhappy with how superhero worlds in movies are typically more reality based than in comics, and they are holding out for the future DC movies and the JL movie to be in more fantasy-based worlds. If they include Batman as he is in TDK in the JL movie, that means that its world has to be more reality based, and that dashes the hopes of a fantasy world against the rocks.

Really though, I doubt that the Earth of future DC movies is going to be particularly fantasy based anyway. They haven't sprung for the alternate-reality fantasy world approach by now, so I don't see why some people expect that to change any time soon. Aside from Watchmen (which was not a terribly big success), modern movie superheroes usually inhabit more reality-based worlds than comic superheroes, and so I don't see why Justice League should be any different-- especially if it means that there's room for Bale's Batman in there.

 

[Webhead2006]

personally i think with the right writers and script everything could work out and all that.

 

[Orin]

See, the comparison you make there, Spiderman and Batman, IMO there's a HUGE difference there. The tone of the Spiderman movies is WAY closer to what we know from the comics than Nolan's Batman movies. BB/TDK aren't much more fantastic than your avarage crime drama. Seriously, does anybody REALLY expect people flying around there? Please, go watch that movies again with that in mind...

 

[Infinity9999x]

Are we back to that "I'm not creative enough to figure out what has already been figured out in the comics for decades so I believe it can't work if adapted to film" nonsense?

Well (and I don't know if you were directing this at me or not) but I don't always think Bats in the JLA works that well in the comics. The Green Lantern: Rebirth was a good example. I was sitting there wondering why Bats showed up at the fight against Parallax, because honestly, he has nothing in his arsenal that could even dent Parallax. Bats' only asset is his "general"-like status and giving out orders and tactics and such, but since that's all he really has to offer, he might as well do it from the watchtower, or somewhere where he can't be easily killed.

 

[Timstuff]

2x post

 

[Timstuff]

Like a jet?

Also, another way batman could participate in the field: stealth. The guy can practically turn invisible, which makes him a valuable field asset to the team rather than just providing intel and barking orders over a radio. Batman's been working with the JL in comics for quite a while now, and even though they sometimes stretch things beyond believability, he's still is capable of working on the team despite having no powers. I don't really see why the Nolan Batman is somehow less capable of serving in the movie version of the JL than his comic counterpart is in the comics.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Like a jet?

Also, another way batman could participate in the field: stealth. The guy can practically turn invisible, which makes him a valuable field asset to the team rather than just providing intel and barking orders over a radio. Batman's been working with the JL in comics for quite a while now, and even though they sometimes stretch things beyond believability, he's still is capable of working on the team despite having no powers. I don't really see why the Nolan Batman is somehow less capable of serving in the movie version of the JL than his comic counterpart is in the comics.

I meant in the specific instance of the Guardian-infected Parallax

In that instance, he literally had nothing in his arsenal that he could use to combat that thing. Now, against an enemy that wasn't as powerful, a jet would work quite well.

And Batman's ability to become "invisible" only works when he has things he can "disappear" to. I would imagine it would be much harder for him to vanish away from someone who has super speed, hearing, inferred vision, or any other kind of superpower that might hinder the effectiveness of his vanishing trick.

However, I could see it being used very well for Bats to infiltrate the enemy base of operations to steal info or something to that effect.

To be clear, I'm not saying I don't think Batman works in the JLA. He does, but I come across certain situations where writers make Batman take on enemies that he simply shouldn't be able to handle, and that annoys me. So in short, I do think Batman can work, I just don't want to see a situation where he's somehow holding his own against a foe that he has no right competing against.