The Dark Knight OFFICIAL TEASER TRAILER #2 Discussion

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The head tilt, yes, I love that! If I didn't know he was the Joker, I'd have found it a bit disturbing. Well, not that Joker isn't disturbing but there's just something about that clown mask itself that gives me the creeps. I think for someone not familiar with the scene beforehand, Grumpy's just weird. The silent clown acting a bit, I don't know... off. He has this air about him that is suspicious the more you see of him. It makes sense after the Joker revelation but you're wary of him even before then, methinks. The head tilt is almost exaggerated. I'm thinking: "Why is he doing that?"

Love it. :yay:

Heath's face may have been hidden during most of the prologue but he really added neat things to the character by the head tilt and the walk and that sigh before he says: "No, no, no, no, I kill the buss driver."
The first time I saw the prologue, I was totally stumped when I first heard the voice. I did not expect it to sound like that at all, which is why I think I was lukewarm toward the prologue at first. Now I love it - the most important part is that it doesn't sound like Heath's voice at all and he obviously put in a lot of work to figure out the voice and get it that way.

Watching the little mannerisms he puts into the Joker definitely supports his own description of the Joker as a shark, although I think the character is more like a predator in general. Animals often tilt their heads in curiosity while looking at something, and he's definitely stalking through that bank lobby. In the trailer, he sways back and forth just slightly while sitting in the jail cell, and then he sort of wiggles like a cat does before pouncing when he approaches Rachel (and then being confronted by Bats).

What I thought was fascinating was observing the camera-work in subsequent viewings of the prologue, after you know that Grumpy is the Joker. The camera definitely favors Grumpy in the shots when the entire group is in frame.
 
The first time I saw the prologue, I was totally stumped when I first heard the voice. I did not expect it to sound like that at all, which is why I think I was lukewarm toward the prologue at first. Now I love it - the most important part is that it doesn't sound like Heath's voice at all and he obviously put in a lot of work to figure out the voice and get it that way.

Watching the little mannerisms he puts into the Joker definitely supports his own description of the Joker as a shark, although I think the character is more like a predator in general. Animals often tilt their heads in curiosity while looking at something, and he's definitely stalking through that bank lobby. In the trailer, he sways back and forth just slightly while sitting in the jail cell, and then he sort of wiggles like a cat does before pouncing when he approaches Rachel (and then being confronted by Bats).

What I thought was fascinating was observing the camera-work for subsequent viewings, after you know that Grumpy is the Joker. The camera definitely favors Grumpy in the cuts when the entire group is in frame.

I'm pretty sure about all of the names - the only dwarf not represented is Doc, and I think it'll stay that way throughout the movie.
 
I'm pretty sure about all of the names - the only dwarf not represented is Doc, and I think it'll stay that way throughout the movie.
How do we know that the goons are supposed to be the Snow White dwarves again? I must have missed something that summer...
 
Hmm. The casting sides refer to a "Grumpy" and a "Chuckles." So...eh who knows. They're all goons anyway. :oldrazz:


Yeah, it doesn't really matter :oldrazz: - I just found that the various masks correspond to the names of the dwarves fairly well
 
I'm pretty sure about all of the names - the only dwarf not represented is Doc, and I think it'll stay that way throughout the movie.

Actually maybe the fat thug could be Doc because as I recall Doc was pretty fat and the actor who plays the fat thug has glasses as does Doc but who knows? :huh:
 
Actually maybe the fat thug could be Doc because as I recall Doc was pretty fat and the actor who plays the fat thug has glasses as does Doc but who knows? :huh:

The Joker probably doesn't like the name :oldrazz: Like I said, it probably doesn't matter, but the masks seemed to conform to the other six names very nicely - and we already knew Joker's name was Grumpy
 
Anita18 said:
The first time I saw the prologue, I was totally stumped when I first heard the voice. I did not expect it to sound like that at all, which is why I think I was lukewarm toward the prologue at first. Now I love it - the most important part is that it doesn't sound like Heath's voice at all and he obviously put in a lot of work to figure out the voice and get it that way.

The voice was definitely different from what I expected at first but I liked it from the 2nd viewing on. The 1st viewing was mostly me going all "OMG OMG OMG" and clapping my hands in delight like a child. :yay: It cracks me up when I think of it now but the usual glee and excitement are still present when I'm watching and re-watching it today, of course. That feeling will never change. The prologue always brings a smile to my face.

After a few viewings I started analysing the sequences more. The first few times were reserved for Joker only and my eyes were focused on him alone (hehe, didn't we all do that?). It was the mannerisms that interested me the most, then the editing and cutting of the prologue itself (I love that part of post-production). It's funny but the first couple of times I could barely register the dialogue, I was that excited to see Joker.moving.on.screen.and.doing.things.wow.

Anita18 said:
Animals often tilt their heads in curiosity while looking at something, and he's definitely stalking through that bank lobby.

Now that you mention it, the head tilt does remind me of my old neighbour's little dog LOL. *cracks up* He would always tilt his head in an amusing manner when he heard unfamiliar sounds, like when kids squealed or did other funny voices just to see his reaction. He would tilt his head one way, then quickly the other way, and back again!

:lips: The poor doggie actually looked a lot like this (minus fancy wig). Hehe, that's obviously not the image I'd like to have on my mind when I think of Heath's Joker even though it's funny as heck. A shark sounds much better, yes, thanks muchly.

It's amazing how the head tilt and the way Joker carries himself show a bit of an animal in him. Did you catch any interesting mannerisms in the goons? While not a mannerism, the bit with the hands in the sneakers is funny and pretty clever, actually. Gotta use what you have at hand! Too bad the camera doesn't linger on that shot, I know I missed the sneakers the first few times I watched the prologue.

Maybe the goons aren't important enough to have mannerisms? *sporfle* They did show some character, though, and I thought Sneezy's "Boss told me when the guy was done, I should take him out. One less share, right?" line was well-delivered. Nice acting.

You also mention Joker stalking. I remember when people first got back from the IMAX and were putting up descriptions on the forum. The new "Joker walk" was mentioned a lot and before seeing it myself I really couldn't picture it in my head. Thing is, I still don't. The way he walks is just hard to describe. Some said he's "sliding his feet on the floor" more, some mentioned he's "skipping" a bit, etc, and that it showed Heath worked on it and obviously practiced a lot to get it just right.
The trailer shows him walking a bit but not nearly enough for me to get a good overall impression of the walk. There's more walking and moving in the prologue but I'm still not sure what exactly he's doing. I just know I like it!

Does it appear like he does it a bit different in each walking/moving/running shot? Maybe that's why it's hard to pinpoint (and some shots are too short to really see it well). He's definitely moving in a strange manner that catches one's attention. Maybe he doesn't have just one "style of walking". I'd actully prefer if he did it a little differently every time because it's creepier that way.

Anita18 said:
In the trailer, he sways back and forth just slightly while sitting in the jail cell, and then he sort of wiggles like a cat does before pouncing when he approaches Rachel (and then being confronted by Bats).

The swaying is another fave of mine. That and the twitching fingers and also a slight tapping of the foot (his right leg, if you look at the knees), I think? He seems a bit impatient and on edge there (fake calm), like he's anticipating something and is ready to spring at any second. The body language alone reveals so much, you don't even have to see his face. Such an effective and unnerving shot. I'd be all O__O if someone like that sat next to me on the bus!

Anita18 said:
What I thought was fascinating was observing the camera-work in subsequent viewings of the prologue, after you know that Grumpy is the Joker. The camera definitely favors Grumpy in the shots when the entire group is in frame.

True! You're wary of him almost subconsciously because he's on screen a lot but you're not sure why it's bothering you so much... As if your mind is telling you he's important and you should pay more attention to him.

(And I realize this should probably be in the "Detailed descriptions of the IMAX TDK prologue" thread or whatsitcalled... Though IMO this post *was* on topic. Sorry for the length!)
 
It's funny but the first couple of times I could barely register the dialogue, I was that excited to see Joker.moving.on.screen.and.doing.things.wow.
Me neither, LOL. I am SO BAD with dialogue. The first time I saw it, I was intently concentrating on memorizing what the shots looked like, so I could try and relive watching it later. I wrote down the first description a few hours after I saw it, and after the bootlegs came out I was actually pleasantly surprised by how well I had remembered it.

You also mention Joker stalking. I remember when people first got back from the IMAX and were putting up descriptions on the forum. The new "Joker walk" was mentioned a lot and before seeing it myself I really couldn't picture it in my head. Thing is, I still don't. The way he walks is just hard to describe. Some said he's "sliding his feet on the floor" more, some mentioned he's "skipping" a bit, etc, and that it showed Heath worked on it and obviously practiced a lot to get it just right.
The trailer shows him walking a bit but not nearly enough for me to get a good overall impression of the walk. There's more walking and moving in the prologue but I'm still not sure what exactly he's doing. I just know I like it!
I know what you mean. I was frustrated with the descriptions of him "limping" since I didn't see it as a limp at all. And I'm not sure one could replicate the "Joker walk" as easily as one could replicate the "Jack Sparrow walk." It's really quite subtle in comparison.

I'm not sure about the shark description either. (Sharks can't really have a posture since they live in the water and gravity doesn't come into play.) He's more of a big cat to me, maybe a panther. They observe their surroundings warily, and if you've ever seen one at a zoo stalking back and forth in their cages, it can be quite unnerving.
 
^The big cat analogy works better than the shark - it did seem like a sort of pacing he was doing
 
Isn't that where you're supposed to wear your watch? I also wore it on my right wrist.
 
Isn't that where you're supposed to wear your watch? I also wore it on my right wrist.
Most people wear it on their non-dominant hand. (Which is why I think Heath's Joker is right-handed even though he's ambidextrous with guns.) Observe how the dial is on the right side, so you can presumably change the time without having to take the watch off. I have to take my watch off in order to change the time. :oldrazz:

Also, it's so people can use their dominant hand to put on the watch. For some reason, putting on a watch is practically the only thing my left hand can do that my right hand can't. Besides opening eppendorf tubes, anyway.
 
I'm rather random.

I write with my left but can switch to my right without much trouble. I draw with my left, but paint with my right and my left taking turns. I throw baseballs and punches with my right. I brush my teeth and hair with my right, and eat food with my right.

I play musical instruments (guitar, violin) "correctly" but have a stronger left hand / baseline for the piano, which is the opposite of most people.

I do cartwheels equally well on both sides. Being fairly well balanced is helpful in gymnastics! :oldrazz:
 
In a recent interview on Fox, and I believe on Larry King Live as well, Eric Roberts gave us a little info on a particular scene in TDK.

He said that Joker is blackmailing Maroni's mob for some reason - he has quite a large speech, according to Roberts.

This may tie in to my suspicions for the reason that Joker robs the mob bank in particular in the beginning of the movie - I think that the blackmailing scene works almost directly into this event although it will most likely not occur immediately after.

It would seem that Joker wasn't stealing the money just to do it but that it served a purpose in getting something else accomplished - he basically "holds the money hostage", as Lucha put it, and makes the mob go after Batman (according to the Larry King interview).

EDIT: here's the video from Fox:





--Cameron :hoboj: :up:

I don't have a quote, but I remember over the summer, someone said that the Joker was going to hold the money hostage. But instead of having all the money for himself, he was going to burn it if the mob didn't do what the Joker said. Doesn't anyone remember this or was it already mentioned?
 
^The big cat analogy works better than the shark - it did seem like a sort of pacing he was doing

One thing about sharks is that they have to constantly move to stay alive. Of course, besides that great dramatic shot from behind his back in the beginning, the constant pacing and movement walking around might explain the shark analogy that Heath was thinking of.

One thing I was wondering, do you think audiences that were not tipped off that the Joker appears during the bank heist would know that "Grumpy" is him right from the outset? That behind the back shot is pretty ominous, even though we see other clowns beforehand. I suppose the goons' talking about the Joker every now and then makes you think Grumpy is in the dark too, but I dunno. I love that shot creeping up behind him on the street, and it helps the audience remember the Grumpy mask in particular, but at the same time, does that give too much away?

After I see the film with friends/family, I'll have to ask them if they knew.
 
One thing I was wondering, do you think audiences that were not tipped off that the Joker appears during the bank heist would know that "Grumpy" is him right from the outset? That behind the back shot is pretty ominous, even though we see other clowns beforehand. I suppose the goons' talking about the Joker every now and then makes you think Grumpy is in the dark too, but I dunno. I love that shot that creeps up behind him on the street and makes you remember the Grumpy mask in particular, but at the same time, does that give too much away?

I bolded the part that really struck me in the prologue, too. It does look like it was shot that way so you'd have plenty of time to memorize the look of the Grumpy mask. It's a fantastic shot but I don't think the general audience would recognize the man as the Joker just from that image. The reveal later wouldn't be nearly as surprising if they did.

Some would probably get suspicious by the time he shoots the bus driver goon, especially when the light catches his hair so nicely and flashes green for a moment when he's at the back of the bus. But by the time these people put 2 and 2 together, it's already past the reveal and he's leaving the scene. :yay:

Also, the quick prologue flows nicely and has great editing, clueless people will hardly have the time to speculate what's going on.

I think if the reveal doesn't surprise many people, it's not that effective in the end. It's meant to be a "Wow, so it was him all along!" moment. I'm sure my friends and my parents who aren't comic book fans wouldn't recognize Grumpy as Joker before he takes off the mask.
 
For those of you who are either newcomers to this board or veterans only recently returning, you would much sooner be acquainted with the speculation that has the fortunate position of of having visual proof.

The other kind of speculation is also present - though it is not as numerous. I leave that for the threads made specially for such.

I say this because I think it is important for all of us here, in the Spoilers Forum, to have the knowledge of TDK that has been presented to us through trailers, photos (official and otherwise), and spy footage. We all deserve to know as much as we can gather from the evidence.

As I say in a paragraph preceding my (currently) 32 Points, you are all welcome to comment on anything you feel the need to


I appreciate all who have done me the honor of reading my analysis - thank you.

--Cameron


:hoboj: :up:
 
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