Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - Part 4

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I wonder if it would be possible that Jackson is combining the necromancer fight with the battle of 5 armies in some fashion. The problem with the latter from the book (that I recall) is that there really isn't a justifiable reason for them to fight; it's all about the gold. Combining the necromancer stuff would possibly make it more about stopping evil then something as petty as securing treasure for yourself.
 
Not liking Sauron joining the Five Armies one bit, it stinks of Jackson's poor idea of having him join the Black Gate battle as Annatar at the end of RotK. The Battle of the Five Armies is one big squabble essentially that escalates due to old grudges, Sauron has no place being a part of it. I really hope this is just Cumberbatch misunderstanding or something.
 
Are sure the Five Legions references the Battle of FIve Armies? It could refer to a gathering of the races Gandalf and the White Council bring into the Necromancer's stronghold.

Also, I understand that the Eye was a literal reading; I meant to ask: Is Sauron's defeat--while he is under the alias of the Necromancer--the reason that he didn't physically appear in LOTR?

From what I can recall off the top of my head there's no reference of any large forces of Orcs at Dol Guldor, it's just known to be the stronghold of "The Necromancer" and was used as an outpost by the Nazgul before going back to Mordor. There's also no reference to him being physically confronted by the White Council, it's just said that they lead their forces there and drove Sauron out. In all likelihood, Sauron would have seen himself at a huge disadvantage before a huge host of Elves lead by Galadriel, Elrond and the Istari, and just fled before he himself could be engaged in battle.

Edit: To correct myself there, the Nazgul used Dol Guldor as an outpost AFTER Sauron had been outed as the Necromancer. Their presence would have been the biggest give-away that it was actually him. If the Nazgul weren't present when the White Council attacked, which I think was the case, then that'd give Sauron even less incentive to stay and engage anyone.

He didn't appear during LotR because he still wasn't at full strength without the Ring, and he has lesser creature to do his fighting for him, which were all still under his thrall by his will even without physical possession of the Ring. But more importantly, Aragorn's army at the Black Gate was pitiful compared to his own forces and he 100% couldn't conceive of the Ring being destroyed in that moment or any other. Frodo and the plan to throw the Ring back into Mt Doom was completely unforseeable to him. He thought they were throwing themselves to the slaughter and it would be a sure victory, so there was no need for him to leave Barad-Dur. It took several years of fighting for the Last Alliance to make their way to his door step when he finally had no choice but to personally join in himself.
 
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Cumberbatch doesn't sound like he has a clear idea of what's going on. I'm thinking/hoping that he simply mistook the Seige of Dol Guldur for the Battle of Five Armies. He has absolutely no business being there, and it is a terrible idea.
 
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My feelings exactly.

I wouldn't mind if they show both of those events happening simultaneously though. I think that's how it'll probably be shown if I had to place a bet.
 
It can't happen simultaneously. Gandalf takes part in the Siege of Dol Guldur and the Battle of Five Armies. He can't be in both places at one :cwink:.

There's a reason why Sauron goes under the guise of The Necromancer during his time in Mirkwood. He doesn't want his enemies to know it's him. He's living in secret - biding his time while his fortress of Barad-Dur is being rebuilt. Gandalf ultimately learns his true identity, but when the White Council confronts him at Dol Guldur, he simply retreats to Mordor. It is only after he re-establishes himself there that he declares himself openly to the peoples of Middle-earth.

With Smaug taken out of the picture, attacking Erebor (whether in person or via the goblin army) would be an act of open war. He would reveal himself to the world, which he is simply not ready to do at this point.
 
You're right the eviction at Dol Goldur happens a little before the Battle of the Five Armies.

Although don't expect that siege of Dol Goldur to go exactly like it did in the book with Necromancer fleeing before the council even gets there (again it varies from The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales and appendices; in one of them he has his army defeated and flees and in another he actually takes part in the battle but isn't seriously injured and then flees). I expect a full on confrontation with the council and the Necromancer and soon thereafter Sauron declaring his return.

He won't be in Erebor though. That's what people are taking out of context in BC comment I think.

If it works out like that then I don't see any problems.
 
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So when do people guess they are doing the cut in the story?
 
Okay, I got it on the Sauron/Ring/Tower deal. Thanks to everyone that answered. :)

Maybe after the elves capture the company or just after they escape the elves?
 
Another reason(besides the obvious ones) why I think Sauron shoudn't be i nthe BOFA is because I think since these are two films and they should both have big finales(like the trilogy had) the battle of dol guldur should be the final battle of part 1 with the dwarves escaping from mirkwood(or whatever they're doing) while gandalf and the white council fight sauron's forces in dol guldur.
 
it's a little unintuitive. You'd think it would work just like posting images but alas.
 
Yeah, that's what I thought too. Doesn't matter, though - you showed me and everything is fine with Middle-Earth again.
 
Stumbled on to it while I was on IMDB. I agree, the music is gonna be fantastic in this.
 
My guess is that the barrel riding episode will be the climax, but it really could be anywhere.
That doesn't seem very climatic, to me. I would prefer the film to end after the Dwarves have been captured by the Elves, and Bilbo is separated from them. The last scene could be Bilbo deciding to put on the ring and disappear, with several weeks having passed before he is able to take it off again, having freed the Dwarves at the start of the next film.
 
^That would also work. I just read the Hobbit again a couple of weeks ago, and the whole barrel incident seemed very physically and mentally trying on Bilbo. I could see that being made to be the equivalent of the Frodo/Sam boat scene at the end of the Fellowship of the Ring.

It's also hard to guess because we don't know exactly how much of the book Jackson wants in the two halves, with his inclusion of "LOTR prequel" material. He could have close to a half of The Hobbit in each movie, or have it be more like 3/4s in movie 1 and the last bit in the second. Who knows.
 
Are the other wizards besides Saruman and Gandalf going to appear
 
Radagast the Brown will be appearing and is theorized that he is fighting Gandalf in the teaser.
 
Radagast the Brown will be appearing and is theorized that he is fighting Gandalf in the teaser.

It looks like it's Thrain, Thorin's father. Gandalf is in Gol Dulgur. He's released Thrain from his cell, and Thrain in his madness attacks Gandalf.
 
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MTV interviews Richard Armitage:

MTV: Congratulations on being named to MTV's Ones to Watch!

Richard Armitage: Thank you very much!

MTV: Where are you currently in the filming schedule?

Armitage: We just finished up our second block, so we start again at the end of January, and then we go — we think it's the end of July. Then there's a bit more in 2013, we reckon.

MTV: What's it like being on a single project for so long?

Armitage: It's really weird because when we started it was just this enormous mountain to climb, but actually, it's going so fast. I think we've gotten to the halfway point now. It's been really intense but so exciting. We literally just finished our location shoot that we've been out on the road seeing most of New Zealand. It's been the best thing I've ever worked on in my life, by far.

MTV: Is it easy to forget you're acting? Do you get lost in the world the production creates?

Armitage: The soundstages they made in Wellington, [New Zealand], most of the time it doesn't feel like we've been working on a set. Even when there's a green screen there, Peter's vision of it is so clear and his description of it is so clear. The pre-production CGI that they've already created really fires up your imagination. That was the shoot we started with. On location, it's just theirs to program these amazing images into your head, so we can now take them back into the studio.

MTV: Will it be hard to leave behind once you've wrapped?

Armitage: It don't think it will be possible to leave it behind me. I think this is one of those characters that always stay with you because you spend so much time with him and it's such a transformation. I'm in the character every day, and I've become so familiar with him. I sort of know how he thinks. I feel really close to the character, and he will continue beyond this job , [spoiler ahead] even though, he dies at the end of the movie. I think he is a fascinating character. I will probably wake up in six years' time and be inspired to think about him again. It's really exciting.

MTV: How did your previous knowledge of the story change how you approached Thorin?

Armitage: I read it quite a few times when I was young. I think going back to it as an adult is really interesting because it is a book that was, I think, was written for Tolkien's children, but when you're creating a piece on this scale, you have to really visualize it for a much broader audience. I think that's the beauty of Tolkien. He does create very well-rounded, quite dangerous characters to play his protagonists. He risks scaring kids. He's the original fantasy creator, and I think you have to invest those characters with the same gravity as if you were making a piece for adults. It was interesting coming back to it as an adult, re-reading it again, because it did have a simplicity to it, which I really like. I felt we could take those characters and really develop them beyond the book.

MTV: You ended up with middle ground in terms of the amount of makeup. Did you feel lucky?

Armitage: It did evolve. We all started with quite an extreme version of ourselves. I think because my character does spend a lot of time onscreen and you really have to understand what he's going through emotionally, it became clear that if we started make the prosthetic as close to my features as possible but still make him a dwarf, it would be much easier to read the character. He has to go on such a journey, it was really important to do that. I grew my own beard after the first block because I felt that it was restricting my face. The jaw is so connected to emotion that I wanted to have that free. It made such a huge difference.

It's really weird now because I can't play the character when I haven't gotten everything on. It's very hard to rehearse when you're not in costume, when you haven't gotten the prosthetics on, but I look in the mirror when it's all finished and I don't see it. I can't see where it starts and where it ends. I just see the character. I've never had that before. It's such a unique experience. It's a face that doesn't belong to me. It belongs to WETA workshop and the people that created it.

MTV: How was it on set with so many actors playing the dwarves?

Armitage: I love it. I absolutely love working as an ensemble member, and we really are an ensemble. There's great camaraderie among all the guys. There is such a diversity of culture and background. We're working with a lot of Kiwis, and there's real mixture of British actors who come from television and theater and film. It's exactly as the dwarves are. When Thorin assembles the quest, he pulls dwarves from all different places to go on this quest. That's mirrored in who we are as actors.
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1677131/richard-armitage-hobbit.jhtml

And Mikael Persbrandt talks Beorn (translation):

Are you done with "The Hobbit" now?
MP: No, definitely not. I'm going back in February. I'll start shooting "Hypnotisören" with Lasse Hallström on Wednesday, then I'm off.

Are you in both "The Hobbit"-movies?
MP: Yes, I am. My character is pretty much as big as in the book. I'm not going to say so much more about it, because it's a big film company and they get so upset if I talk to much... But if you read the book you'll get a pretty good picture... and then maybe there's a little bit more.

How did they create your character Beorn? Prosthetics, or some kind of motion capture?
MP: Like I said earlier, I would like to survive the night. Otherwise, they'll send a missile after me I think. It's exciting to be in it. You'll see later. The premiere is a little less than a year away, in December.
http://www.moviezine.se/artikel/9218-persbrandt-vi-behover-fler-kvinnor-i-ultravaringldsfacket
 
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/853/thehobbit8.jpg

thehobbit8.jpg
 
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