Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - Part 5

[Boom]

Lol i sometimes wonder whether she has actually read the books.

I don't doubt that she has. I just get the sense that she, along with Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh, look at certain elements of the books and say, "This can't work in the film medium, so let's change it to something that can."

Now, sometimes that's true, and sometimes it isn't. I will give credit, I prefer the movie Boromir to the books, as he seemed a much more rounded and humanized character (though that might be largely due to the brilliance that is Sean Bean). But this is the same creative team that also:

- Almost had Arwen at Helm's Deep (going so far as to shoot it)
- Almost had Sauron fight Aragorn at the Black Gates (going so far as to shoot it)
- Had Frodo tell Sam to go home
- Made Faramir into an antagonist
- Made Aragorn a reluctant king
- Had the Witch-king "break" Gandalf the White
- Completely missed the point of the Mouth of Sauron scene, going so far as to have Aragorn decapitate an unarmed emissary
- Had Gandalf physically assault the lawful ruler of Gondor just for the lolz, and then topped it off with Gandalf kicking him onto a burning pyre (manslaughter at best)
- Took Gandalf's final plan and gave it to Aragorn (in case you can't tell by now, I'm extremely ********* over how Gandalf was portrayed in RoTK)

Among countless others. And what's distressing to me is that most of the scenes/characters they changed from the books are actually perfectly translatable to film, and are (in my opinion) far superior to what they came up with instead.

Now, maybe Peter Jackson's "sprawling three-film epic" version of The Hobbit is just as much Thorin's story as it is Bilbo's, and that's what she was referring to. Fair enough. But I do not see any precedent for that in the original novel.

 

[Marvolo]

I don't doubt that she has. I just get the sense that she, along with Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh, look at certain elements of the books and say, "This can't work in the film medium, so let's change it to something that can."

Now, sometimes that's true, and sometime's it isn't. I will give credit, I prefer the movie Boromir to the books, as he seemed a much more rounded and humanized character (though that might be largely due to the brilliance that is Sean Bean). But this is the same creative team that also:

- Almost had Arwen at Helm's Deep (going so far as to shoot it)
- Almost had Sauron fight Aragorn at the Black Gates (going so far as to shoot it)
- Had Frodo tell Sam to go home
- Made Faramir into an antagonist
- Made Aragorn a reluctant king
- Had the Witch-king "break" Gandalf the White
- Completely missed the point of the Mouth of Sauron scene, going so far as to have Aragorn decapitate an unarmed emissary
- Had Gandalf physically assault the lawful ruler of Gondor just for the lolz, and then topped it off with Gandalf kicking him onto a burning pyre (manslaughter at best)

Among countless others. And what's distressing to me is that most of the scenes/characters they changed from the books are actually perfectly translatable to film, and are (in my opinion) far superior to what they came up with instead. Now, maybe Peter Jackson's "sprawling three-film epic" version of The Hobbit is just as much Thorin's story as it is Bilbo's, and that's what she was referring to. Fair enough. But I do not see any precedent for that in the original novel.

Those first 6 things in LOTR that you mentioned aggravated me, as well. The Mouth of Sauron was so damn cool i forgave them for any problems they introduced into the scene. As for gandalf kicking Denethor onto the pyre, that was justified imo. He was attempting to burn faramir alive.

 

[Gianakin_]

As for gandalf kicking Denethor onto the pyre, that was justified imo. He was attempting to burn faramir alive.

So was book-Denethor, but Gandalf didn't act like Rambo there. And for good reason.

 

[Marvolo]

So was book-Denethor, but Gandalf didn't act like Rambo there. And for good reason.

To be fair his horse kicked denethor and around raging fires and yelling lunatics horses are known to do that lol. I cant remember but in the book was Denethor going after Pippin?

 

[Gianakin_]

Nope. Denethor was all about killing himself over his guilt at that point.

 

[matrix_ghost]

I don't doubt that she has. I just get the sense that she, along with Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh, look at certain elements of the books and say, "This can't work in the film medium, so let's change it to something that can."

Now, sometimes that's true, and sometimes it isn't. I will give credit, I prefer the movie Boromir to the books, as he seemed a much more rounded and humanized character (though that might be largely due to the brilliance that is Sean Bean). But this is the same creative team that also:

- Almost had Arwen at Helm's Deep (going so far as to shoot it)
- Almost had Sauron fight Aragorn at the Black Gates (going so far as to shoot it)- Had Frodo tell Sam to go home
- Made Faramir into an antagonist
- Made Aragorn a reluctant king
- Had the Witch-king "break" Gandalf the White
- Completely missed the point of the Mouth of Sauron scene, going so far as to have Aragorn decapitate an unarmed emissary
- Had Gandalf physically assault the lawful ruler of Gondor just for the lolz, and then topped it off with Gandalf kicking him onto a burning pyre (manslaughter at best)
- Took Gandalf's final plan and gave it to Aragorn (in case you can't tell by now, I'm extremely ********* over how Gandalf was portrayed in RoTK)

Among countless others. And what's distressing to me is that most of the scenes/characters they changed from the books are actually perfectly translatable to film, and are (in my opinion) far superior to what they came up with instead.

Now, maybe Peter Jackson's "sprawling three-film epic" version of The Hobbit is just as much Thorin's story as it is Bilbo's, and that's what she was referring to. Fair enough. But I do not see any precedent for that in the original novel.

To be honest though.
Purely from a audience perspective , i never found Sauron threatening. He's described as this powerful Lord who corrupts and controls everything yet because he doesn't have a physical body , he never ( at least to me) comes off as a threat. I would've loved to see Sauron duke it out with Aragorn as they had filmed it. Yes...artistic liberties would need to be taken but otherwise he's just a flaming eye who's on top of a tower.
But for some reason this Eye is able to scare the **** out of Gandalf and others. Big whoop.

 

[CGHulk]

Gawd all those new pictures are gorgeous!

 

[matrix_ghost]

Excellent shot.
Due the state of the tech at the time when LOTR was made , Gollum never looked photoreal however Serkis's performance , he was a believable character.
CG can be a tricky thing. On one hand photorealism plays an important role yet the character performance makes you forgot you're watching a CG creation.

However Gollum looks very real in this shot. CG animation is much better then in 2003.

 

[Gianakin_]

To be honest though.
Purely from a audience perspective , i never found Sauron threatening. He's described as this powerful Lord who corrupts and controls everything yet because he doesn't have a physical body , he never ( at least to me) comes off as a threat. I would've loved to see Sauron duke it out with Aragorn as they had filmed it. Yes...artistic liberties would need to be taken but otherwise he's just a flaming eye who's on top of a tower.
But for some reason this Eye is able to scare the **** out of Gandalf and others. Big whoop.

That would also be PJ and the writing team's fault. In the books Sauron's presence was, like, everywhere. You could feel there was nowhere to go without Sauron being able to find you. In the movie they decided for some ******ed reason to make Sauron's Eye literal and turned him into an Evil Lighthouse which, naturally, takes all the threat and danger away from the character. Especially the "puppy eye" effect they gave the Eye when the Ring was destroyed.

So yes, if they realized at some point they had screwed Sauron up and decided to film a duel between him and Aragorn, it's nothing short of failed damage control.

 

[matrix_ghost]

That would also be PJ and the writing team's fault. In the books Sauron's presence was, like, everywhere. You could feel there was nowhere to go without Sauron being able to find you. In the movie they decided for some ******ed reason to make Sauron's Eye literal and turned him into an Evil Lighthouse which, naturally, takes all the threat and danger away from the character. Especially the "puppy eye" effect they gave the Eye when the Ring was destroyed.

So yes, if they realized at some point they had screwed Sauron up and decided to film a duel between him and Aragorn, it's nothing short of failed damage control.

It's been years since i read LOTR ( last time was in 2003) but remind me again how Sauron's presence was felt .

 

[Gianakin_]

It wasn't too tangible, it was more Tolkien's writing which created a sense of insecurity, despair and at times futility. There were a couple of instances where you had the Nazgul make their presence felt (like when they were on the river at night and Legolas shot a Nazgul's wyvern down), as well as some parts where there were agents of Sauron (spies-like).

PJ didn't do a terrible job at conveying the despair, but the problem is he added scenes of stupid levity that completely destroyed the effect (see: the "Tatoes" scene between Sam and Gollum, where the former spews that god awful line as if he was Shaniqua from da hood. Might as well have said "Oh, no you didn't just ask what tatoes are!").

 

[regwec]

I agree with most of the PJ bashing here, but I think the statement can that The Hobbit is almost Thorin's story can be defended.

The mythic element of the story does belong to Thorin. Bilbo plays the reluctant fish out of water that ends up being the hero. From the reader's perspective, the story is absolutely Bilbo's, but I doubt that any of the other characters in the story, other than Gandalf, see it that way.

A more accurate statement might be that Bilbo infiltrates Thorin's epic tale and turns it into his own, more human story.

 

[regwec]

- Made Aragorn a reluctant king
- Completely missed the point of the Mouth of Sauron scene, going so far as to have Aragorn decapitate an unarmed emissary

Those elements were appalling. Aragorn was ruined in the movies. I didn't care for Viggo in the role, either.

 

[Gianakin_]

I agree with most of the PJ bashing here, but I think the statement can that The Hobbit is almost Thorin's story can be defended.

The mythic element of the story does belong to Thorin. Bilbo plays the reluctant fish out of water that ends up being the hero. From the reader's perspective, the story is absolutely Bilbo's, but I doubt that any of the other characters in the story, other than Gandalf, see it that way.

A more accurate statement might be that Bilbo infiltrates Thorin's epic tale and turns it into his own, more human story.

I would support your assessment by bringing up Back to the Future: None of these movies are Marty's story. No1 is about his father, no2 his mother/Biff, no3 about Doc. It's just that we, as the audience, follow Marty.

 

[lime]

How many hours till the trailer is released. Here in Bulgaria is 13:14 PM.

I heard that the trailer will be up in 7 AM PST, and if that is correct, it means aroun 17:00 Bulgarian time, right?

 

[craigdbfan]

1 hour and 26 minutes left. Super excited.

 

[vinsanity]

there it is, quickly before it's taken down

http://video.howzit.msn.com/watch/v...urney-full-trailer-exclusive-to-msn/183rm2wjy

 

[craigdbfan]

Never thought I'd say this but that trailer did nothing for me.

 

[lime]

I will wait 30 minutes for the Itunes 1080p HD.

 

[craigdbfan]

Apple has it up.

 

[Sentinel X]

there it is, quickly before it's taken down

http://video.howzit.msn.com/watch/v...urney-full-trailer-exclusive-to-msn/183rm2wjy

Thanks for the link!!! But honestly....it was alright. I think I got more excited by the stills to be honest. I just have to keep remembering that this story is not as epic as Lord of the Rings, its pretty much 'diet' LOTR lol

 

[John Locke]

No! The moment I leave for class is the moment it's up. Well I guess I'll see it in two hours.

 

[craigdbfan]

Well after seeing the Quicktime trailer it really does display the beauty that went into this quite nicely. Although some of the sets are so obviously sets that it brings this unnatural static vibe to it.

A lot of it almost seems a bit sterile.

 

[Project862006]

wow people actually not liking that trailer

that was epic superior to the teaser

 

[craigdbfan]

wow people actually not liking that trailer

that was epic superior to the teaser

I found the teaser to be infinitely better.