Official UFC Thread - Part 7

[jmc]

It's not the right game plan at all. If Tate employs those tactics of keeping distance and running Rousey around I genuinely think she will beat Ronda. I think Meisha learned a lot today. Holly will be back though, I'd like to see these two fight again.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It's not the right game plan at all. If Tate employs those tactics of keeping distance and running Rousey around I genuinely think she will beat Ronda. I think Meisha learned a lot today. Holly will be back though, I'd like to see these two fight again.

I think if she does that, she gives herself a genuine chance. Meisha just needs to give herself a chance this time.

 

[B]

I feel like the Mendes fight is a good example of how it would go. Mendes had Conor, but gassed do to a lack of camp. Edgar is a better Mendes use to fighting much bigger guys.

Edgar is a lot more unpredictable than Mendes, he shifts his weight about & changes levels much better. Probably slightly slower than Mendes but there isn't much in it. If McGregor goes in & keeps his hands low like he did against Diaz he'll end up getting peppered with shots all day by Edgar.

Training for a Triathlon is very different from training for a fight. It is a different kind of endurance, calling on different muscles screaming for oxygen. Just cause a guy plays in the NFL doesn't mean he has the cardio for fighting, for example. Also a 10 day camp is so different, because you can't build up that natural endurance because you can't go hard that close to a fight. Nate gassed. He wasn't in shape, and he still won.

A triathlon is a 3 stage race that stretches the entire body to the limit, it is in every single aspect an endurance sport, if you are in the middle of training for one, you are without question in shape to have an MMA fight.
It's apples & oranges comparing people that are training in the NFL to people training for a triathlon, typically though NFL players have poor cardio largely because IMO the NFL's training is more about, speed, strength & explosiveness as opposed to endurance which is all a triathlon is based on.

Nate gassed? I didn't see that at all in the fight, he looked perfectly fine cardio wise.

Not sure what you mean about Conor not using weight as excuse. He couldn't stop bringing it up at the post-fight and basically pointed at it for why he lost.

He brought up & talked about weight in the build up to the fight as well, you're picking & choosing what you want to hear buddy because I watched the post-fight press conference. The majority of the questions put to him were about weight & what he wanted to do next did he want to stay at 170, fight at 155 or goto 145 as well as what he noticed different about fighting at 170 & fighting a bigger guy considering he is usually the biggest guy in most fights at FW.

He didn't use the weight as an excuse for him losing, in fact his exact words were something along the lines of he makes no excuses for the lose, he came up short & felt he was very inefficient with his striking & energy.

 

[I'm Batman.]

Anyone can beat anyone on a given night. That's what's great.

 

[Slushy]

Holly Holms's fanbase now.

 

[TheCommissioner]

I wake up and the whole worlds gone crazy

the leprechaun got choked out and Meisha Tate won?

someone is happy in Vegas this morning

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Edgar is a lot more unpredictable than Mendes, he shifts his weight about & changes levels much better. Probably slightly slower than Mendes but there isn't much in it. If McGregor goes in & keeps his hands low like he did against Diaz he'll end up getting peppered with shots all day by Edgar.

I don't disagree. After all, I am saying I think Frankie beats Conor.

A triathlon is a 3 stage race that stretches the entire body to the limit, it is in every single aspect an endurance sport, if you are in the middle of training for one, you are without question in shape to have an MMA fight.
It's apples & oranges comparing people that are training in the NFL to people training for a triathlon, typically though NFL players have poor cardio largely because IMO the NFL's training is more about, speed, strength & explosiveness as opposed to endurance which is all a triathlon is based on.

Nate gassed? I didn't see that at all in the fight, he looked perfectly fine cardio wise.

Nate said he gassed and he looked tried in the second. Nate was the one who said it. Did you watch the post-fight stuff? He was talking about how he came off the beach fat. He wasn't in proper shape. He kept saying it.

Fighting is all about the explosiveness in the muscles. That is kind of the point. Running a triathlon is a whole lot different from trying to oppose another human being in combat. Fighting against their weight and resistance and getting off with a TD or strike. Grappling is one of the most exhausting things you can do. It is why boxers and wrestlers have been consistently named the most "athletic" athletes.

He brought up & talked about weight in the build up to the fight as well, you're picking & choosing what you want to hear buddy because I watched the post-fight press conference. The majority of the questions put to him were about weight & what he wanted to do next did he want to stay at 170, fight at 155 or goto 145 as well as what he noticed different about fighting at 170 & fighting a bigger guy considering he is usually the biggest guy in most fights at FW.

He didn't use the weight as an excuse for him losing, in fact his exact words were something along the lines of he makes no excuses for the lose, he came up short & felt he was very inefficient with his striking & energy.

Are you a Conor fan? Because you seem to miss while he kept on bringing up the striking and energy thing. Namely the size difference. More then once we said that he got tired putting too much into his punches because he underestimated how much it would take to hurt a bigger guy. The first thing he said at the presser was that smaller guys crumble under those shots, but do to his weight Nate didn't. He also brought up Nate's range and reach, for why his left hand and wheel kicks were falling short. Saying you aren't making excuses while making excuses is still making excuses. It is pretty classic actually.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

 

[Poetic Chaos]

Watching the post-fight conference, McGregor analyzed his shortcomings in the fight perfectly. I think this is gonna be a great learning experience and he's gonna come back stronger for it.

 

[B]

Nate said he gassed and he looked tried in the second. Nate was the one who said it. Did you watch the post-fight stuff? He was talking about how he came off the beach fat. He wasn't in proper shape. He kept saying it.

I watched the post-fight press conference live & unless I missed it he didn't mention gassing or feeling tired at all, he mentioned that he felt he'd have done better & got hit less if he'd had a camp to get more sparring rounds in.

I don't think he looked like he'd gassed at all during the fight.

Fighting is all about the explosiveness in the muscles. That is kind of the point. Running a triathlon is a whole lot different from trying to oppose another human being in combat. Fighting against their weight and resistance and getting off with a TD or strike. Grappling is one of the most exhausting things you can do. It is why boxers and wrestlers have been consistently named the most "athletic" athletes.

So you feel even though Nate was training specifically for an epic endurance event involving 3 mile swims, 50+ mile cycles & 25 mile runs, you think even though he was training for that he was in fact out of shape & severely handicapped condition wise against McGregor, who was training for a 25 minute fight..

Are you a Conor fan? Because you seem to miss while he kept on bringing up the striking and energy thing. Namely the size difference. More then once we said that he got tired putting too much into his punches because he underestimated how much it would take to hurt a bigger guy. The first thing he said at the presser was that smaller guys crumble under those shots, but do to his weight Nate didn't. He also brought up Nate's range and reach, for why his left hand and wheel kicks were falling short. Saying you aren't making excuses while making excuses is still making excuses. It is pretty classic actually.

I repeat again because you seem to have completely ignored what was said in the very post you quoted. He 'kept bringing it up' because the majority of questions he was asked by the journalists were about weight, what his next move was, how he felt in the cage against Nate & what he felt went wrong. Giving an answer to those questions isn't making excuses, it's simply giving an answer.

 

[Warhammer]

Even though I hate the Diaz brothers, it was cool to see McGregor get beat. He'll slightly lighten up on the s*** talking now. He is so lucky this wasn't a title fight.

As for Holm/Tate, it was exciting. At the same time, I wanted to see the Rousey/Holm rematch so Holm would beat her ass again. Rousey has beaten Tate twice already and disrespected the f*** out of her after their second fight.

 

[Batmannerism]

You keep up bringing up GSP, without actually examining why he lost and the personalities of either person. GSP lost, he threw away his party lifestyle and focused on one thing, fighting. He might as well have drawn a picture of Serra and the belt on his eyelids because it was all he thought about. Rousey lost, she disappeared until she came out looking for sympathy talking about having babies with her women beating boyfriend.
.

Actually that was my whole point. I wish she had approached this defeat like GSP did with Serra. He was classy in defeat and then picked himself up, dusted himself off and got to a place where he could absolutely demolish Serra - and then did so.
My point was, I would have liked to see that same kind of spirit from RR. But hey, everyone's different. I think if I'd gotten KO'd in front of millions I would have a little bit of self-pity too. What made GSP a great champion as well as a great fighter is that he didn't give in to that - as well as being generally classy.
In the same way, if RR is afraid of Holly it's for a good reason - hell, not being afraid of Holm's striking game would be stupid. It's what RR does with that fear, she could use it to train hard and up her game or let it paralyze her. What you said about GSP is totally right, if he was afraid he let it drive him rather than hold him back - RR hasn't done that so far, although with the injuries she sustained from Holm she can't fight for some time anyway.


Is RR a one-dimensional fighter, like Royce Gracie (no disrespect he's still awesome) ? Well maybe. It's no secret that her submission game is her number one weapon - and with Holm she certainly did pretty much everything wrong against the best striker she's yet encountered.

I still believe the Tate win says more about Holm's limitations, rather than Ronda's. If RR comes out and has a similarly bad performance, well then I might need to change my ideas about that - but we'll see. If Tate takes out Ronda then I will have to stand (or sit) corrected, and even if RR wins the rematch will be inevitable.

The big question is now that Ronda's been shown she's not invincible, can she make the necessary adjustments ? I think she can, but we'll know soon enough. If she can't well then it will advance the sport.

And who exactly cares if she wins the belt?

Well, probably her fans for starters, Dana White and everyone promoting UFC. If (although I suspect it's more of "when") RR beats Tate, that will do big business for the UFC ( it's a championship match, so $$$$$$) then when Holm challenges, it's the rematch that you want to see, again $$$$$.

It's going to be a very big year for women's UFC regardless. Looking forward to it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I watched the post-fight press conference live & unless I missed it he didn't mention gassing or feeling tired at all, he mentioned that he felt he'd have done better & got hit less if he'd had a camp to get more sparring rounds in.

I don't think he looked like he'd gassed at all during the fight.

So you feel even though Nate was training specifically for an epic endurance event involving 3 mile swims, 50+ mile cycles & 25 mile runs, you think even though he was training for that he was in fact out of shape & severely handicapped condition wise against McGregor, who was training for a 25 minute fight..

You are right, he didn't say he gassed. He did say he wasn't in proper shape though. One of the reasons why the fight wasn't at 155, where Nate fights, is because he could not make the weight.

You can find the interview with Rogan on on YT. This is how he started it:

I knew it was always going to be a slow start for me because you know I'm always in shape, but if I am not in the best shape I have to start slow and pick up as a I go.

During the presser he said:

Coming into this fight fat boy off the beach in Cabo.

I repeat again because you seem to have completely ignored what was said in the very post you quoted. He 'kept bringing it up' because the majority of questions he was asked by the journalists were about weight, what his next move was, how he felt in the cage against Nate & what he felt went wrong. Giving an answer to those questions isn't making excuses, it's simply giving an answer.

You seem to be missing my point. The questions are the questions, how he answers them is what matters. In the cage talking to Rogan, he mentions the weight and taking a chance by coming up 3 times. He brings up not being able to hurt Nate because of the weight. Because Nate is bigger. He wants to make it clear that he lost because Nate was too big. Which is hilarious considering Nate fights at the same weight as RDA.

 

[TheCommissioner]

Conor agreed to fight out of his weight class, Diaz took the fight on 2 weeks notice

Conor lost, I think trying to dissect it is folly because it seems to be just one of those things

 

[jmc]

Actually that was my whole point. I wish she had approached this defeat like GSP did with Serra. He was classy in defeat and then picked himself up, dusted himself off and got to a place where he could absolutely demolish Serra - and then did so.
My point was, I would have liked to see that same kind of spirit from RR. But hey, everyone's different. I think if I'd gotten KO'd in front of millions I would have a little bit of self-pity too. What made GSP a great champion as well as a great fighter is that he didn't give in to that - as well as being generally classy.
In the same way, if RR is afraid of Holly it's for a good reason - hell, not being afraid of Holm's striking game would be stupid. It's what RR does with that fear, she could use it to train hard and up her game or let it paralyze her. What you said about GSP is totally right, if he was afraid he let it drive him rather than hold him back - RR hasn't done that so far, although with the injuries she sustained from Holm she can't fight for some time anyway.


Is RR a one-dimensional fighter, like Royce Gracie (no disrespect he's still awesome) ? Well maybe. It's no secret that her submission game is her number one weapon - and with Holm she certainly did pretty much everything wrong against the best striker she's yet encountered.

I still believe the Tate win says more about Holm's limitations, rather than Ronda's. If RR comes out and has a similarly bad performance, well then I might need to change my ideas about that - but we'll see. If Tate takes out Ronda then I will have to stand (or sit) corrected, and even if RR wins the rematch will be inevitable.

The big question is now that Ronda's been shown she's not invincible, can she make the necessary adjustments ? I think she can, but we'll know soon enough. If she can't well then it will advance the sport.



Well, probably her fans for starters, Dana White and everyone promoting UFC. If (although I suspect it's more of "when") RR beats Tate, that will do big business for the UFC ( it's a championship match, so $$$$$$) then when Holm challenges, it's the rematch that you want to see, again $$$$$.

It's going to be a very big year for women's UFC regardless. Looking forward to it.

I think it's clear it's not the rematch that Ronda would want. When Holm beat her she went silent for weeks, as soon as Tate won the belt she's immediately wanting it to be known she's ready. I don't believe Ronda has the fighting style or the patience to beat Holm and I think she's knows it. She may very well beat Tate again if Tate gets suckered into playing Ronda's game, that's what happened last time. But like I said earlier, Holm is the best thing to have happened to Miesha because she's set the blue print for how to beat Rousey.

 

[B]

You are right, he didn't say he gassed. He did say he wasn't in proper shape though. One of the reasons why the fight wasn't at 155, where Nate fights, is because he could not make the weight.

He's not talking about his lack of conditioning, he's talking about starting out slow because of his lack of sparring rounds. It has nothing to do with a conditioning aspect of things because even in the fight he didn't even look close to gassing. He's referring to him starting out slow in the sense that he'd get better as the fight go on the more he got into his groove hense why he followed it up with if he had a camp he felt he'd have got hit much less.

EDIT - I stand corrected, he posted something on his IG last night denying he was even training for a triathlon before the fight at all which is what Dana said. The conditioning aspect though was somewhat a moot discussion between us anyway because the conditioning factor didn't come into play as neither of them gassed. Ironically I actually rewatched the fight & it actually looked like Conor was the one taking deeper breaths & struggling more than Diaz. He did talk about wasting energy in his post-fight presser, but again that's probably something else he underestimated, that he would be carrying more weight than he ever has before in a contest & thus might not be able to set the same sort of pace he does at FW.

You seem to be missing my point. The questions are the questions, how he answers them is what matters. In the cage talking to Rogan, he mentions the weight and taking a chance by coming up 3 times. He brings up not being able to hurt Nate because of the weight. Because Nate is bigger. He wants to make it clear that he lost because Nate was too big. Which is hilarious considering Nate fights at the same weight as RDA.

It really is completely different. You're twisting things as if McGregor was sitting in the press conferences and interviews crying, whining & making excuses about the weight difference, height difference aimlessly out of context with the questions being put to him.

 

[The Apocalypse]

I took everything Mcgregor said in the post fight presser as analysts rather than complaints.

 

[B]

As did I, it felt more like he was analysing what went wrong as opposed to complaining about it. He actually took the defeat a lot better than I thought he would have given how outspoken he is.

 

[I'm Batman.]

I think he was shocked that Diaz didn't drop after bombs landed. He was landing the left pretty clean, and he landed some uppercuts. His power didn't translate like he thought it would, and once he got rocked, he quit. Once McGregor made the decision to take him down I knew it was over. Diaz is a small 170, and he looked quite a lot bigger than McGregor out there. Imagine a big someone like Dong Hyun Kim. He did drop some bombs in the first round some good pressure that would've got to other fighters, credit to Diaz for getting through that. Problem was, McGregor played his 145 game in a 170 fight. Trying to use his power early, and when that didn't work, he was gassed. McGregor was humble in defeat. But as many have said already...170? Uh...Condit, even Thompson would beat him. McGregor would've been flattened by Lawler.

 

[The Apocalypse]

As did I, it felt more like he was analysing what went wrong as opposed to complaining about it. He actually took the defeat a lot better than I thought he would have given how outspoken he is.

He's said he's humble in victory and defeat so I was skeptical as well to see how his reaction would be.

 

[B]

I think he was shocked that Diaz didn't drop after bombs landed. He was landing the left pretty clean, and he landed some uppercuts. His power didn't translate like he thought it would, and once he got rocked, he quit. Once McGregor made the decision to take him down I knew it was over. Diaz is a small 170, and he looked quite a lot bigger than McGregor out there. Imagine a big someone like Dong Hyun Kim. He did drop some bombs in the first round some good pressure that would've got to other fighters, credit to Diaz for getting through that. Problem was, McGregor played his 145 game in a 170 fight. Trying to use his power early, and when that didn't work, he was gassed. McGregor was humble in defeat. But as many have said already...170? Uh...Condit, even Thompson would beat him. McGregor would've been flattened by Lawler.

In the presser he talked about he underestimated the fact that Nate might actually be able to take the sort of punches that were usually making the FW's crumble & as you say, it didn't translate the way he thought it would & to compete at WW he'd need to do a lot cleaner work than it does at FW.

That's the thing, if you're going to move up in weight classes you really need to use what advantages you'll have over the bigger man better as in use your movement & speed. He was kicking Nate's lead leg in order to bully Nate onto the backfoot so he would be the one pushing Nate backwards, which is his style at FW, he perhaps should have used that leg kick more sparingly in order to allow himself to stay on the outside to make Nate chase him.

Robbie is a big dude probably walks around at about 205 or so by the looks of him, Nate isn't even a WW, he's got a bizzare body it looks like he cuts a lot to make 155, but 170, at least against legit 170 fighters looks like it's a weight class above him.

Realistically Conor shouldn't be thinking about 170lbs, he might enjoy the fact he can just eat what he wants & roll up to weigh ins, but FW/LW should be his home(s).

 

[B]

He's said he's humble in victory and defeat so I was skeptical as well to see how his reaction would be.

Yeah I was gonna say, even though he talks a lot of **** before the bout, after all of his contests in the UFC anyway he has been nothing but humble & respectful to his opponents in both the post-fight cage stuff & the post-fight pressers. I thought he'd have taken his first lose quite badly but he seemed to take it quite well.

It's really good to see, I actually like both him & Nate more than I did before the bout because both of them talked mad **** about one another in the run up, yet after the bout they showed each other good respect.

 

[I'm Batman.]

Some possibilities for 200 though I'm not saying either of these will happen. 2016 has been about as crazy unpredictable as 2015 already!

* With Tate now the champion Rousey conveniently has a much quicker recovery time than expected and makes the card.

* With all of his boys/girls suffering losses White re-signs GSP who got a reaction Saturday night at 196. The dude can definitely pop a buyrate, and his opponent doesn't matter. I'm thinking we could finally get him vs. Silva which would be a fair fight. Silva's momentum has died down since GSP left, and both guys aren't getting younger.

 

[Batmannerism]

Some possibilities for 200 though I'm not saying either of these will happen. 2016 has been about as crazy unpredictable as 2015 already!

* With Tate now the champion Rousey conveniently has a much quicker recovery time than expected and makes the card.

* With all of his boys/girls suffering losses White re-signs GSP who got a reaction Saturday night at 196. The dude can definitely pop a buyrate, and his opponent doesn't matter. I'm thinking we could finally get him vs. Silva which would be a fair fight. Silva's momentum has died down since GSP left, and both guys aren't getting younger.

Yeah, I love GSP, but he should stay retired - I mean, the best possible time to step away from a sport is when you're on top.

Those last 2 fights had a lot of folks questioning whether GSP should have won, and who knows ? Anyway, GSP at the end of his UFC time was not the same as GSP in his prime (not the GSP who took out BJ Penn).

I don't think GSP has much to gain, and a lot to lose from coming back to the UFC. But who knows ?

As for Ronda v Miesha, well this is a good point

But like I said earlier, Holm is the best thing to have happened to Miesha because she's set the blue print for how to beat Rousey.

I think even more than that, Holm has shown that Ronda could be beaten. Some fighters, and Silva was one of them, have this aura of invincibility - so much so that other fighters start to believe they can't be beaten. This isn't good for a sport - having a champ who's too dominant puts other would-be competitors off.

Holm certainly showed that Ronda has a bunch of work to do on her striking, and striking defence, but more importantly that she's human, just like everyone else.
I'm a Ronda fan, but even I admit that the hype last year was getting a bit out of control. I see this as a chance for Ronda to really rise up to new heights.
Looking forward to Tate v Rousey 3, even if somehow Tate wins, because it will be so intense.

 

[B]

I agree with Batmannerism, I think GSP should just stay un-officially retired. Since he vacated the title & stepped back he tore his other ACL, meaning he now has had torn ACL's in both knees which are quite serious injuries. Given that GSP is quite an athletic fighter, anything such as this that could potentially damage his athleticism could make things difficult for him in the cage.

Having said all that, if he is considering coming out of retirement for another couple of fights. Anderson Silva has got to be one of them. It would be the unofficial superfight that should have happened 5 or 6 years ago when both guys were at their peaks No. #1 & #2 on P4P list, destroying everyone in their divisions at the time.

I'd hate to see him try to make a comeback & run at WW title only to lose to somebody who, in his prime, wouldn't have lost to. His last fight with Hendricks was kinda a good eye opener for him, I think if that fight happened a few years sooner GSP wouldn't have allowed that fight to be as close as it was. Think his head was partially already out the door & if you're head isn't in a fight of any kind, it's a quick way to get yourself hurt.