Official Wolverine And The X-men, Episode 5, "Thieves Gambit" Discussion Thread

[Canemacar]

So Hermes Conrad is Gambit? Does that mean the next time the professor addresses the team he'll start off with "Good News Everyone" before telling them how bad the future is?

If only we could get Logan to start saying "Bite my shiny metal ass!"

 

[stillanerd]

Not much to say about this episode:

Spoiler

It definitely was more of a Wolverine centric story than an X-Men story, but then again, he is the "star" of the show.

First of all, I liked the Magma cameo, and the whole sequence in which she is being chased by the MRG troops really reminded me of the X-Men Legends video game. After all, the game opens along similar lines, only with full blown Sentinels. Perhaps that's what this episode was making a nod towards that.

Of course, the main focus was Gambit. Now, when I was a kid, this guy was definitely was considered one of the "cool" X-Men, but over time, mainly due to his over-exposure in the X-titles, his welcome was starting to wear really thin and gradually I began to think he'd worn out his welcome, so I could not say I'm now a big fan of his as I once was.

In this episode, I found him to be an arrogant, self-important, opportunistic *******, and I have to say...I liked take on him. After all, the guy is a thief, a thief with an honor code sure, but a thief nevertheless. Someone like him would not really be part of the X-Men unless there was something to gain out of it. The comics tried to explain this via a retcon that he was responsible for leading Mr. Sinister and the Marauders to the Morlocks and as a result had joined the X-Men out of guilt, on top, of course, his growing love for Rogue. However, what we're getting here is a set-up of a Gambit before he developed a conscience and even met Rogue, and even though you totally don't want to like the guy, there is a certain aire about him. When Wolverine gave Gambit the empty case (which I totally saw coming) I liked how he got pissed that Logan tricked him, and then smiled approvingly, meaning the only way he respects anybody is if they outcon a con like himself.

As for Dr. Zane, I kept thinking there was more to her than this episode was letting on, and not just her working with Senator Kelly. The whole time, I kept thinking that she's actually Mystique in disguise and that she's inflitrated the MRG as a double agent for Magneto. Then again, if that were the case, the Sentinel Scorpion robot thingy would have detected her as a mutant. Even so, I still get the feeling that she is Mystique regardless, mainly for the cool factor alone.

So, a pretty good to average episode, and probably a little better than the last one.

 

[Johnny Israel]

If only we could get Logan to start saying "Bite my shiny metal ass!"

Well we do have the luxury of a red head being attracted to a cyclops.

 

[usagicassidy]

Well we do have the luxury of a red head being attracted to a cyclops.

Hahahaha.

 

[Dread]

The fifth episode of W&TXM, "Thieves Gambit", is one of (reportedly) two that will feature the card-slinging Cajun of the title. It also is the first episode that really feels like a "Wolverine" show aside for the pilot, in that it really felt like a Wolverine solo episode in which the X-Men were just supporting characters, if that.

As always, full spoilers.

Spoiler

The episode opens with the MRD vehicles chasing a young mutant, Magma, through the streets trying to arrest her. The more scared she gets, the more her heat/lava powers flare out of control. Wolverine is able to show up at the right moment to save her, and uses a strange collar to stop her powers from flaring out of control. It reminded me a bit of the original X-MEN LEGENDS opening plot, especially since that was where Blum first voiced Wolverine. I still wonder how Magma is able to make flaming footprints without melting her shoes (she burns off half her clothes later). A strange woman and a cabal of thieves admire the collar and hire the titular Gambit to steal it.

Gambit's design is as complicated and stuck in the 90's as possible: trench, non-mask, color clashing armor. They added some metal shoulder-protectors to the coat. He debuted in 1990 and was still a very new character when he was part of the cast of the original X-MEN cartoon in 1992-1993; in fact, many credit that show with helping to launch Gambit into A-List status during the 90's. He was a staple of the comics for many years during that decade and had at least two ongoing series. It was only after the Joe Q EIC tenure started in 2000 that he started to slow down and lose some steam. By 2008, while Gambit still has a lot of fans, he isn't nearly as big a character or as vital to the comic universe as he was before the year 2000.

While Gambit was part of the central cast of the X-MEN cartoon, and he had his own solo episode in Season 2, Gambit, along with Jubilee, often spent many episodes away from the team compared to other characters like Wolverine, Beast, Rogue, even Cyclops. In some ways he was more of an enigmic and rare figure than even the "loner", Wolverine. He showed up at the end of Season Two of X-MEN EVOLUTION as one of Magneto's personal Acolytes, and had some distinctive episodes in Season Three and Four of that show. Much as in the comics, all versions of cartoon Gambit have fallen for Rogue at some point. Ironically, in the first two seasons of X-MEN, Gambit did have an interesting rapport with Jubilee, but Wolverine soon became her de facto mentor.

To be blunt, I have never been a fan of Gambit. I usually dismissed him as a child watching the original cartoon, and as I got older, he started to irritate me more. Maybe it was the "trapped in the 90's" design (much as Longshot had a "trapped in the 80's" design), or the annoying accent, or the fact that I wondered why Rogue put up with him. Maybe he seemed to be trying too hard to be cool to me. I didn't mind the EVOLUTION version, though. His design was a bit toned down and he wasn't constantly spouting, erm, "High School French" as THE TICK would call it, chere, every five seconds, mon ami.

This version of Gambit, much like in EVOLUTION, is not a member of the X-Men. In fact, this one is still a player for the Thieve's Guild, working for hire. It is an interesting way to play him, to keep him as a neutral professional type rather than attaching him as an outright hero or villain. In the comics, that was how he started before befriending Storm, after all (a former thief herself). His design here is a bit complicated, and in a way I am glad he is not on the core cast as he and Cyclops would clash horribly (I could imagine "Trenchcoat Mafia" wisecracks). The worst part about him I would say is his voice; it was a little inconsistent. Sometimes he sounded fine here, and other times his Cajun sounded like he came from Nu Joysey. Some of his lines were almost unbearable, such as, "Let's try a new deal!" (who knew Remy was a fan of FDR) ,followed by Wolverine's "Cut the deck!" line. The last time I heard lines that terrible, it was from EVOLUTION's Avalanche making one too many "rock and roll" puns.

Hired by "Ms. Zane" to steal the inhibitor collar for a fee, Gambit breaks into the X-Mansion and does exactly that. Despite his explosive power, only Wolverine senses that the Mansion has been breached, despite security measures or Emma Frost being a telepath. He also is the only one who visits the comatose Xavier. The inhibitor collar was invented by Forge, which plays into the comics a bit as he was also the one who invented a gun that stripped Storm's powers away for years in real time ("months" in Marvel time). Of course, the collar would be a gadget du jour for X-Men villains in the 90's series and in a way it always seemed a bit unrealistic for a solve-all collar to strip away mutant powers no matter what type they were (surely a bruiser with dense muscles works biologically different than a psychic), but that is another matter. It's a staple.

Wolverine uses his tracking power to find Gambit, who has already handed the collar to Zane for a large pay-out. He gets into a fight with Wolverine who burns his cash, but offers to pay "double" if Gambit helps retrieve the collar, seeming to know enough about the Guild that Gambit would know who his employer is. I have no idea how the heck Wolverine would know the rules of the guild. But then again, I have no idea why a character with a healing factor and an adamantium skull would bother wearing a motorcycle helmet (besides BS & P, of course).

Gambit and Wolverine track Zane down to her base, where she was hired by Trask to retrieve the collar and hand it to Dr. Bolivar Trask, head of the SENTINEL program (the Dr. Wily of the X-Universe). Gambit and Wolverine of course have a tit-for-tat partnership for the mission, with Gambit eager to show off and loyal only to himself. They get into a large right with Zane, Trask's gadgets and more of his Spider-Slayer-esque robots. Gambit appears to abandon Wolverine with the collar, but the ol' Canucklehead pulls a double-fake on Gambit that literally every single person in the viewing audience would see coming immediately (so long as they are over 6 years old). Wolverine manages to save the day and Gambit escapes to find another mission, still a ne'er do well. Considering his thief nature and that her origin was shown last week, including Storm in the episode probably would have made a lot of sense. But then again, this is Wolverine's show foremost, and this episode makes it abundantly clear.

The action is alright; fine for a network cartoon, but nothing like some of the brawls in SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN, JLU, or TEEN TITANS (but superior to FANTASTIC FOUR: WGH). The animation is alright, with some typical TV animation glitches like some off-model shots or stilted movements, but I'm used to that for most TV cartoons, so knocking W&TXM for it when virtually every network TV cartoon has some of those hiccups would be unfair. It's still better than some animated fare from the 90's or even a few years ago.

Some would call this the worst episode so far, but I don't know. I'm not a fan of Gambit, but I wasn't a fan of Storm & Shadow King last week, either. I am a fan of Emma Frost in a nightgown, though. Yum. Overall, I'd say it was about as good as last week's episode. While that episode had more characters and felt like more of a team show, this was another type of episode. It was meant to introduce Gambit as a neutral, professional mutant and to play him off the idealized Wolverine. The scene where Logan "asks" Charles for help was pretty good. A bit OOC that Scott isn't bothering, but at this point, not surprising. Scott's a background detail so far, on the roster because most people associate him with the X-Men, but has provided nothing of interest thus far beyond an occasional red blast. Gambit in one episode did more than Scott has in four.

Speaking of Scott, while he isn't shown in this episode, I do find it unintentionally hilarious that apparently Scott is too mopey to shave, but once he decides to don his costume, no matter how dire the emergency, he spares a few minutes to shave the stubble. What, Logan, Forge, and Beast can't be the only furry men in spandex on the show? Magneto will be insulted if Cyclops has some peach fuzz?

The recap was mostly pointless, except to remind us that Sen. Kelly wants to eliminate mutants and helps with the MRD. Oh, and to remind us of that Spider Slayer robot.

An average episode. Not bad but not too memorable. Mostly a gift to Gambit fans. As a Colossus fan, thank your lucky stars. Eh, at least I can look forward to some stuff from Nightcrawler, presumably.

 

[Cyma]

Spoiler

Hired by "Ms. Zane" to steal the inhibitor collar for a fee, Gambit breaks into the X-Mansion and does exactly that. Despite his explosive power, only Wolverine senses that the Mansion has been breached, despite security measures or Emma Frost being a telepath.

Spoiler

His kinetic powers create static interference that shields his mind from detection. As for the security measures, Gambit is hinted as one of the best thieves so….what security measures?

I have mixed feelings about this episode. Gambit being my favorite character, I enjoyed his scenes, especially his personality more than the previous shows. But I was expecting other X-men to be present instead of only Wolverine. The action got kind of boring because of him since he was doing most of it, only jumping around like an ape and slashing things

I don’t want to imagine how a whole Wolverine centered episode will turn out like.

 

[Neptune]

So Hermes Conrad is Gambit? Does that mean the next time the professor addresses the team he'll start off with "Good News Everyone" before telling them how bad the future is?

Oh so that's why Gambit sounds Jamaican. It all makes sense now.

 

[the a1ant]

This episode was kinda boring. Seemed like a "filler" episode. Episode 6 sounds like a lot of fun though, so looking forward to that

...and it might just be me, but is the animation quality getting worse with each episode (after the first initial three episodes)? I understand more time/money being spent on the 'pilot' story arc, but hopefully things improve.

 

[mr. peasant]

I dunno... I personally prefer the Evo interpretation of Gambit. Don't know why but I'm guessing his crashing a super-charged double-decker bus into a giant spider has something to do with it.

 

[javphonic]

I can't beleive people actually think he sounds Jamaican

he sounds like someone with a bad Western/Cajun accent

 

[Neptune]

Evo Gambit wasn't bad. His voice certainely was a lot better but this Gambit's personality is more accurate. I did kinda miss some interaction between him and Storm. I would like him to join the x-men eventually and Storm should be the one who convinces him to do so.

 

[Angamb]

I liked this episode. The interaction between Logan and Remy was good.

I think it is a better episode than the previous Storm one...

What I didn't like at all was the little little scene at the end of the x-men and Logan just arriving...

I don't like that kind of short scenes, where they want to remind us that the x-men are still alive, but we only see a 2 seconds shot.

All the chapters about one character, be Logan or other, end or start with a 3 seconds shot of 2 or 3 x-men....

 

[Canemacar]

I can't beleive people actually think he sounds Jamaican

he sounds like someone with a bad Western/Cajun accent

No he doesn't. The Jamacan is pretty pronounced and very distinct from what a Cajun accent would sound like. Compare Lamarr's voice to Chris Potter's.

 

[javphonic]

No he doesn't. The Jamacan is pretty pronounced and very distinct from what a Cajun accent would sound like. Compare Lamarr's voice to Chris Potter's.

Not to sound snippy, but I'm Jamaican so I think I would recognize a Jamaican accent, there were some times where he sounded a bit like it, but there were times he sounded completely American aswell, but I'm just saying overall it sounded like a bad Western/Cajun accent versus a Jamaican acccent

 

[YoungE808]

Spoiler

My favorite part had to be when they were doing the banter about how to get in and then when Wolverine brings up 'Plan B' again

 

[Canemacar]

Not to sound snippy, but I'm Jamaican so I think I would recognize a Jamaican accent, there were some times where he sounded a bit like it, but there were times he sounded completely American aswell, but I'm just saying overall it sounded like a bad Western/Cajun accent versus a Jamaican acccent

In the same spirit of no snip, I have family from Cajun country. My next door neighbor also happens to be from the area. I hear Cajun accents on a regular basis and Gambit doesn't have one, bad or otherwise.

 

[Dread]

Spoiler

His kinetic powers create static interference that shields his mind from detection. As for the security measures, Gambit is hinted as one of the best thieves so….what security measures?

I have mixed feelings about this episode. Gambit being my favorite character, I enjoyed his scenes, especially his personality more than the previous shows. But I was expecting other X-men to be present instead of only Wolverine. The action got kind of boring because of him since he was doing most of it, only jumping around like an ape and slashing things

I don’t want to imagine how a whole Wolverine centered episode will turn out like.

Kinetic energy stifles psychics? See, I dislike that Gambit as he became more popular gained new powers. He isn't the only character to do that, but it gets annoying. He even gained a healing factor, THE most overused mutant power since 1990.

I agree the staging of some of the action could be better. True, Wolverine can't really cut anything except robots or obvious monsters, but neither can Leo or Raph from the 2k3 TMNT, and that show was capable of providing some excellent fight sequences...although some not as good as they were 2-3 years ago.

This episode was kinda boring. Seemed like a "filler" episode. Episode 6 sounds like a lot of fun though, so looking forward to that

...and it might just be me, but is the animation quality getting worse with each episode (after the first initial three episodes)? I understand more time/money being spent on the 'pilot' story arc, but hopefully things improve.

The pilot episodes usually have more of a budget since those have to attract the network and immediately pull in ratings. After that, TV animation is a grueling process where things have to be done as quickly and less expensively as possible. That said, yeah, some shows have looked prettier on networks. THE BATMAN usually looked amazing, but the writing was far worse. FANTASTIC FOUR: WGH usually had good animation quality, but it was a lighter show. SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN has a much more "stylized" style, made simple to animate like the old Bruce Timm models. I agree the animation usually won't set any standards, but it's no worse than a lot of network fare.

I dunno... I personally prefer the Evo interpretation of Gambit. Don't know why but I'm guessing his crashing a super-charged double-decker bus into a giant spider has something to do with it.

I also liked the Evolution version. His voice was good, his design was made sleeker and less complicated, and he didn't drop as much awkward French lines, as if he had to get in about 1 per minute like other versions, petit.

This version is more true to the comics, though. I do like the idea of keeping him his own paid man for now. Although I have to admit, when I think of Wolverine teaming up with someone and storming a warehouse, he had a lot better banter in "THE MUTANT AGENDA" from SPIDER-MAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES Season Two. Now THAT was a team-up.

 

[Johnny Israel]

Not to sound snippy, but I'm Jamaican so I think I would recognize a Jamaican accent, there were some times where he sounded a bit like it, but there were times he sounded completely American aswell, but I'm just saying overall it sounded like a bad Western/Cajun accent versus a Jamaican acccent

I'm not one to study dialects and things, the reason Lamarr is getting the Jamaican references is due to the accent he's using for Gambit is eerily similar to that of another character he uses the same accent for who is supposed to be Jamaican. This is the reason for all these comparisons and why I've poked fun at this episode numerous times.

I also demand Beast being drawn more crab like and rummaging through trash cans looking for food.

Yes I'm going to beat this joke into the ground until someone makes a video with Wolverine and The X-men dubbed with Futurama characters.

 

[Ziggyman]

^I agree...He did sound Jamaican...Many times!

...And...Question...

How did Logan know about the Guild of Thieves rules...?

 

[javphonic]

In the same spirit of no snip, I have family from Cajun country. My next door neighbor also happens to be from the area. I hear Cajun accents on a regular basis and Gambit doesn't have one, bad or otherwise.

Well that's fair, as I've never heard an actual Cajun speak, I'm only making my judgement on what I've seen/heard on TV and his previous incarnations... I've always heard Jamaican imitations on TV and it's never right so if others (not you specifically, but in general) are making similar assumptions based on what they've heard on TV then you're mistaken about the accent




BTW:the closest Jamaican accent I've heard was Tia Dalma from POTC2+3

 

[javphonic]

^I agree...He did sound Jamaican...Many times!

...And...Question...

How did Logan know about the Guild of Thieves rules...?

Well he's older than the Professor so I'm guessing he's been associated with a member in the past

 

[Canemacar]

Kinetic energy stifles psychics? See, I dislike that Gambit as he became more popular gained new powers. He isn't the only character to do that, but it gets annoying. He even gained a healing factor, THE most overused mutant power since 1990.

What are you talking about? He hasn't gained any new powers due to popularity Gambit's telepathy resistance has been with him since his first issue and he does not have a healing factor.

Well that's fair, as I've never heard an actual Cajun speak, I'm only making my judgement on what I've seen/heard on TV and his previous incarnations... I've always heard Jamaican imitations on TV and it's never right so if others (not you specifically, but in general) are making similar assumptions based on what they've heard on TV then you're mistaken about the accent

Fair enough; I honestly have no idea what a genuine Jamacan accent is like. A ll I knew is it wasn't Cajun. I guess we're both wrong on this count.

 

[javphonic]

I'm not one to study dialects and things, the reason Lamarr is getting the Jamaican references is due to the accent he's using for Gambit is eerily similar to that of another character he uses the same accent for who is supposed to be Jamaican. This is the reason for all these comparisons and why I've poked fun at this episode numerous times.

I also demand Beast being drawn more crab like and rummaging through trash cans looking for food.

Yes I'm going to beat this joke into the ground until someone makes a video with Wolverine and The X-men dubbed with Futurama characters.

Just curious, which character did he lend his Jamaican accent to?

also, are you serious about Beast rummaging and stuff, lol that'd be odd even for him

 

[Superhero 101]

I jus saw it and i liked the Gambit Wolverine thing it just reminded me of the 90s it was a good episode i just didn't like Gambits voice. I think the guy was trying to much on the New Orleans accent. But it wasn't too bad

 

[Johnny Israel]

Just curious, which character did he lend his Jamaican accent to?

also, are you serious about Beast rummaging and stuff, lol that'd be odd even for him

The show I constantly reference is "Futurama" in which Phil Lamarr voices Hermies Conrad, a jamaican bureaucrat.

The beast being a crab and going through the trash is a reference another character on that show.

I suggest youtubing some clips of the show as it can explain things better than I can. I'm not entirely sober right now so I probably should of waited til morning to answer this.