Old MCU Fantastic Four Discussion Thread

[Marvel united]

Well, Krasinski is going to shoot Quiet Place 2 in 2019, assuming F4 comes out in 2021 at the earliest, Krasinski can shoot F4 the following year

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

The movie will be close to entering production by may 2020 if it isnt already by that point this could rule out krasinski. Assuming their aiming for a 2021 release.

Where is this info of a 2020 production from? Was there an announcement or statement about this?

 

[Darkprime]

Where is this info of a 2020 production from? Was there an announcement or statement about this?

Pure speculation on my part but when you look at how things are lining up. And when the fox deal is set to close and take into consideration the time it takes to write a script (Thats assuming they arent working on one right now and have one ready as soon as the deal closes) and then pre production. Early 2020 production start isnt impossible.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm not really expecting an FF film before 2023. It would be great if it's sooner, but I think we have to count on it being a while with other films (currently in various stages of production) coming before.

 

[Darkprime]

I'm not really expecting an FF film before 2023. It would be great if it's sooner, but I think we have to count on it being a while with other films (currently in various stages of production) coming before.

Disney will want to see results of its 70 billion dollar investment pretty quick tho.

 

[CaptainWagner]

4. Reed as the awkward geek was one of the biggest problems with the 2005 film. That tired cliche that super-intelligent people are also necessarily geeks needs to be put to rest.

I don't see how that's an issue in a universe built around the ultimate "cool nerd" Tony Stark. I don't want Reed to be another Tony. Delving into the more unique, interesting parts of his psyche will set him apart.

 

[2kt09]

I don't see how that's an issue in a universe built around the ultimate "cool nerd" Tony Stark. I don't want Reed to be another Tony. Delving into the more unique, interesting parts of his psyche will set him apart.

Barely see the malnourished, can never sleep, Bruce Banner.
Let Reed fill that role of looking so overworked.

 

[Dark Raven]

I don't see how that's an issue in a universe built around the ultimate "cool nerd" Tony Stark. I don't want Reed to be another Tony. Delving into the more unique, interesting parts of his psyche will set him apart.

But there are not only two variations on the scientist: either cool playboy type like Tony Stark, or autistic, socially awkward nerd like some seem to think Reed is.

Was an archaeological professor and explorer like Indiana Jones like Tony Stark at all? He certainly wasn't the so-called autistic type either. He was simply different to either option.

Would you call someone like Spock autistic or suffering from Asperger's? Are all Vulcans autistic? There are certainly some similarities between Reed and Spock. But then, Reed also has some of the bravado of Kirk, or the diplomacy of Picard.

 

[2kt09]

But there are not only two variations on the scientist: either cool playboy type like Tony Stark, or autistic, socially awkward nerd like some seem to think Reed is.

well, he's not Peter Parker obviously...too old for that

Not 2 rather aren't there 4 or 5 main Marvel variations?

• scathing playboy with a drinking problem
• striving for world peace yet a total mpd prone sociopath
• living and trying to cure a curse
• living with a gift

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I don't see how that's an issue in a universe built around the ultimate "cool nerd" Tony Stark. I don't want Reed to be another Tony. Delving into the more unique, interesting parts of his psyche will set him apart.

But there are not only two variations on the scientist: either cool playboy type like Tony Stark, or autistic, socially awkward nerd like some seem to think Reed is.

Was an archaeological professor and explorer like Indiana Jones like Tony Stark at all? He certainly wasn't the so-called autistic type either. He was simply different to either option.

Would you call someone like Spock autistic or suffering from Asperger's? Are all Vulcans autistic? There are certainly some similarities between Reed and Spock. But then, Reed also has some of the bravado of Kirk, or the diplomacy of Picard.

Yeah, Reed is nothing like Tony stark, but he doesn't have to be a stammering dork to set himself apart from Tony Stark.

How about Don Draper as an example? He's smart and confident without the obsessive need to constantly make smart-ass comments like RDJ's Tony Stark.

 

[Silvermoth]

Ultimate Fantastic Four had Reed turn into a villain called 'The Maker' and had Sue and Ben marry each other.

Not exactly the best source material to draw upon for your FF film. It's easily the weakest of the Ultimate line though the Ultimatum takes that designation as the 'worst'.

If there’s one thing they have to change it’s definitley the “everyone wants to marry sue” thing. It’s so gross. Maybe you could do it for namor but literally everyone? I mean even doom had that “I want to steal everything Reed has” thing which is so gross

I think there's a danger of dismissing anyone who is more introverted or even more intellectual as being autistic or having Asperger's. Not everyone has to be super outgoing. Nor should it be the case that if you aren't, then suddenly there's something not quite right about you.

Even if you are socially awkward, that doesn't make you autistic either. It's not like there are only extroverts and then those with autism. That's how people started to come up with the idea of having an autistic Peter Parker as well for Homecoming, and thinking Asa Butterfield in X+Y was an accurate portrayal of him, just because Peter was more of a loner and was more shy during his high school years.

In all the classic FF comics, Reed was certainly genius level and thought more quickly than everyone else. But he never came across as if he were so socially awkward or unable to relate to people.

Did he lock himself away in his lab for long periods at a time and isolate himself? Sure. But so did Tony Stark, sometimes for weeks on end.

Reed still seemed confident and sure of himself socially and was a man of action and adventure. That's why I saw him more like Indiana Jones or Doc Savage rather than someone like the Professor on Gilligan's Island or Carl Sagan or John Nash (from a Beautiful Mind), or any other more nerdy type.

I think there’s an exciting opportunity there though. I mean, seeing Valkyrie and black widow meant so much to people who weren’t used to see people they can identify with kicking ass. I think seeing a hero not only with Aspergers kicking ass but also caring for his family, falling in love and getting married, being a good friend etc. That’s powerful stuff. That would so much to so many people, myself included who has Aspergers (diagnosed by a professional, not doctor google) and to the families of people with Aspergers

 

[Silvermoth]

Hey just because I’m sick of seeing all the same names every time I’m casting a gender bent fantastic four

Reed Richards - Rashida Jones


Ben Grimm - Marissa Jaret Winokur


Johnny Storm - Aubrey Plaza


Susan storm - Ryan gosling

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I think there’s an exciting opportunity there though. I mean, seeing Valkyrie and black widow meant so much to people who weren’t used to see people they can identify with kicking ass. I think seeing a hero not only with Aspergers kicking ass but also caring for his family, falling in love and getting married, being a good friend etc. That’s powerful stuff. That would so much to so many people, myself included who has Aspergers (diagnosed by a professional, not doctor google) and to the families of people with Aspergers

I'm all for this in-concept, but the problem is, Reed has never really been portrayed as having the actual characteristics of an autistic person. So you have to either change his character drastically (which I don't like), or simply call him "autistic" when he's not (which I think is an insult to autistic people).

I would prefer the introduction of an actual character with autism who demonstrates those characteristics rather than ret-conning Reed Richards.

 

[Dark Raven]

I'm all for this in-concept, but the problem is, Reed has never really been portrayed as having the actual characteristics of an autistic person. So you have to either change his character drastically (which I don't like), or simply call him "autistic" when he's not (which I think is an insult to autistic people).

I would prefer the introduction of an actual character with autism who demonstrates those characteristics rather than ret-conning Reed Richards.

This. I don't want Reed to have to be turned into this just for some kind of representation. I want to see Reed Richards done properly on film. I haven't been waiting all this time for a good FF movie only to see Reed turned into that.

And I really don't like the idea of labelling him as autistic. It makes it feel like one could come up with a slogan to label people in general: "There are only 2 types of people in this world. Those who are extroverts, and those who are autistic."

That's how people even grow up or go through life with certain hang ups, because others with a lack of understanding wrote them off or labelled them as something because they couldn't conceive of any other possibilities in their limited minds.

It's also those narrow-minded people who think that introverts couldn't possibly be leaders because the only types are outgoing extroverts. But many leaders in history were actually introverts.

But maybe there's no such thing as an introvert, because you're either extroverted or you're autistic.

 

[terry78]

Reed was never an introvert, he was always clear and concise when explaining his projects and plans, but Ben and Johnny just either had too short of an attention span or found his long windedness exasperating, as Ben pretty much knows how his **** works but he could basically break it down in less syllables.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

This. I don't want Reed to have to be turned into this just for some kind of representation. I want to see Reed Richards done properly on film. I haven't been waiting all this time for a good FF movie only to see Reed turned into that.

And I really don't like the idea of labelling him as autistic. It makes it feel like one could come up with a slogan to label people in general: "There are only 2 types of people in this world. Those who are extroverts, and those who are autistic."

That's how people even grow up or go through life with certain hang ups, because others with a lack of understanding wrote them off or labelled them as something because they couldn't conceive of any other possibilities in their limited minds.

It's also those narrow-minded people who think that introverts couldn't possibly be leaders because the only types are outgoing extroverts. But many leaders in history were actually introverts.

But maybe there's no such thing as an introvert, because you're either extroverted or you're autistic.

Yes, absolutely. For a long time I just sort of assumed I was "on the spectrum" because of how broadly the term has come to be used.

But one day I decided to do some digging to try to really understand what Asperger's and Autism really mean, and I realized that, while I tend to have some of Reed Richard's characteristics, I really don't have the key characteristics of Autism.

I developed my language skills at a very early rather than late stage. I don't engage in repetitive behaviors etc. etc. etc. I definitely have ADD, but I almost certainly don't fit the real, clinical definition of Asperger's or Autism, and the same is probably true of Reed Richards.

I think these terms are getting a lot more publicity lately, and that's good. But I don't think people really understand the terms fully and they tend to apply them too broadly, and calling Reed Richards "Autistic" would fit that general misunderstanding rather than working to correct it.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

This is my take on what Reed should be on screen.



Reed Richards/Mr. Fantastic- Oh boy... Where to start? Okay first off Reed has got to come off a lot less like an egghead and a lot more cool.
Perhaps to the point of arrogance even. If you look at recent adaptations getting across how amazing Reed is because of his intellect more than his power set is seemingly difficult. Making smart cool and interesting is a balancing act, with it's own pitfalls writers fall into regularly. Again, I think the key though is to make Reed and his intelligence cool. The difficulty is not doing it in the way that's currently en vogue. More often than not these days you find fictional geniuses as being depicted as either snobby, arrogant asshats that are separate and cut off from society or others in some way usually emotionally or they are geniuses but lack some aspect of common sense. In any case there is this very ham fisted rule in a lot of stories where there is some heavy personality price to be paid for being so much smarter than everybody else and while it can work to make Cumberbatch's Holmes cool, or Dr. House ect. it also tends to make them off putting in some way.
The other type is the usual socially awkward nerd trope. None of that should apply to Reed. No, for Reed I think the template is another BBC regular...
Doctor Who, or more specifically the affable and endearing take of the Matt Smith/David Tenant years of the Timelord. Here was a super genius that was a little off, sure, and still a science genius but never an ass to those whom it was unwarranted to be so. Funny, always thinking, always observing always game to find out something new. That's Reed to T if I were in charge of the character. I would leaven that with a pinch of social awkwardness but maybe not even that. I would say that Reed is eternally "un-hip" but he's always "cool". Reed isn't keeping up with popular culture because he's unconnected to the wider world and culture. He's more than aware. He just realizes it doesn't really matter. But he is grounded into what does, and that goes beyond his research. He calculates it all into his actions. He isn't blind to politics, nor human emotions and interactions. That sort of analysis on the fly is what gives him such an edge in his adventures and endeavors, both before he gained his powers and after. That's why again, flashbacks are really important. Establish that Reed was a genius that thrilled to adventure as much as to research. Make it that he sees no appreciable difference maybe?
All knowledge is self knowledge could be part of his personal credo. He's not a cold man. His emotions are as keyed into things as anything else. He is fulfilled by finding out new things and going new places and he wants others to be just as excited as he is. He's a rational man but he sees a "spiritual" value in scientific quests, and a beauty in the truth science uncovers about the universe and sentient existence in it. This also makes him the type that takes a lot of effort to surprise on his enemies part. Reed even without his power could walk in and out of CIA headquarters and liberate whatever information he wanted to an no one would ever know he was there. Again, like the Doctor... He's just that cool. No, I would have this version of Reed not be simply a forgetful professor type that shuts himself off from his friends and family all the time. If anything this version of Reed is in fact using his brain all the time to try and serve them in some fashion. Cutting them off knowingly or inadvertently would actually be the signs of someone a lot less bright than Reed is supposed to be. No this is a Reed that has a balance between his emotions and his rationale sides. What makes him a genius is that he can actually navigate those two areas equally. Now that brings up some interesting story points once you establish that because now when he gets to a situation where he must choose between the two, where he can't find the way to solve the problem all around you get to see what his choices will be and it's more likely for the drama to work. If we all assume Reed has a huge emotional blind spot and is an absent minded professor type then when he does just that... Who is gonna be surprised? If you establish that he has got his **** together then it becomes a bigger deal when even he can't square a circle so to speak. Above all the actor needed to play Reed cannot just be a nerdy milquetoast. He has to have a charm, even a magnetism, must be good at playing the collected type but also show the commitment to science because he finds it all so wondrous.



Mind you, I write this before Matt Smith joined the Disney family as it were so I didn't have him in mind particularly then.

 

[Dark Raven]

Yes, absolutely. For a long time I just sort of assumed I was "on the spectrum" because of how broadly the term has come to be used.

But one day I decided to do some digging to try to really understand what Asperger's and Autism really mean, and I realized that, while I tend to have some of Reed Richard's characteristics, I really don't have the key characteristics of Autism.

I developed my language skills at a very early rather than late stage. I don't engage in repetitive behaviors etc. etc. etc. I definitely have ADD, but I almost certainly don't fit the real, clinical definition of Asperger's or Autism, and the same is probably true of Reed Richards.

I think these terms are getting a lot more publicity lately, and that's good. But I don't think people really understand the terms fully and they tend to apply them too broadly, and calling Reed Richards "Autistic" would fit that general misunderstanding rather than working to correct it.

I see what you did there.

 

[David H.]

Hey just because I’m sick of seeing all the same names every time I’m casting a gender bent fantastic four

I’m actually really digging Goose as gender swapped Susan.

 

[Silvermoth]

I’m actually really digging Goose as gender swapped Susan.

Thanks! I had a lot of fun with it

 

[Vapor]

Reed - Dan Stevens
Sue - Lily James
Johnny - Nick Robinson
Ben - Kevin Durand
Doom - Michael Huisman

 

[Silvermoth]

I'm all for this in-concept, but the problem is, Reed has never really been portrayed as having the actual characteristics of an autistic person. So you have to either change his character drastically (which I don't like), or simply call him "autistic" when he's not (which I think is an insult to autistic people).

I would prefer the introduction of an actual character with autism who demonstrates those characteristics rather than ret-conning Reed Richards.

It’s been referenced a few times and it’s really not that out of character for him. Some people have more mild cases than others for example. Not everyone will be like Sheldon cooper and there’s more to it than self diagnosing introvertism as Aspergers. I think maybe people who think “oh everything gets diagnosed as a disorder” these days might need to do a bit more research. It’s like saying depression isn’t real because some people “are just sad”.

Really nothing would be lost from referring to reed being on the spectrum somewhere and so much can be gained. It could be really exciting!

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Eh... Reed is a fantasy super genius and his character issues are just that, about his character. I don't think he needs to have some kind of real world diagnosis to justify his characterization. I think this is different than say, Sherlock Holmes whose issues are so obvious it does lend itself to a modern analysis that could lead someone to see him as indeed an addicted high functioning sociopath.

 

[HBarnill]

What should be the team’s ideal age? And older team (ages 30-40)? A younger team (ages 16-25)

 

[terry78]

I feel like Asperger's and autism has become the "cool disorder" to use in fiction as of late. How many shows and movies currently have protagonists who are genuises yet barely able to function in a social setting?